Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

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GTR2EBIKE   10 W

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Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by GTR2EBIKE » Apr 20 2010 9:14am

Does any one here have past experiences with hi-power cycles, good or bad looking to hear it all.
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mr.electric   10 kW

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by mr.electric » Apr 20 2010 1:31pm

I like thier product offerings, BMC, nice batteries, KHS bikes. They seem a bit sloppy on the full ebike build quality - Trying to save money on zip ties?
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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by GTR2EBIKE » Apr 20 2010 3:12pm

mr.electric wrote:I like thier product offerings, BMC, nice batteries, KHS bikes. They seem a bit sloppy on the full ebike build quality - Trying to save money on zip ties?
Is there anyone else or another company you would recommend looking into?
I'm looking for a fast reliable e-bike and there "40 mph" bike sounds like a good amount of speed to me. Anyone you know of that builds one with a similar or higher speed?
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by dogman dan » Apr 20 2010 3:25pm

Lots of stuff is being made to go 40 mph these days. What are you wanting to do, climb mountains or drag race cars?

The go to motor for high watt, longer duration uses has been the direct drive 5300 crystalyte motors such as 5303. But they are heavy 25 pound hunks of metal, those things. While the BMC can have lots of power with less weight. The tradeoff is direct drive durability vs moving parts that can break inside.

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by GTR2EBIKE » Apr 20 2010 5:22pm

Mostly a 10 mile commute that I'm looking to do as fast as possible, also I'm just a speed demon.
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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by spinningmagnets » Apr 20 2010 6:06pm

Whats your budget? For a reliable 40-mph, its sounds like a 5304 at 72V just as Dogman has suggested. Controllers and batteries for a higher voltage than 72V are very expensive, and lower voltages require high amps to get that kind of power. Start a search here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... f=4&t=7131

Do you already have a bike you want to equip with a motor, or are you open to suggestions? For that kind of speed, a front disc brake is pretty much a requirement, and also a full-suspension frame...best of luck.

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by dogman dan » Apr 21 2010 7:07am

Cheap speed comes pretty easy with an Aotema motor from High Tech Bikes. The stock controller gives you nearly 30 mph when hit with 48v. Doesn't require the higher c rate batteries of a 5304, but won't have the acceleration of one either. The motor is cheap compared to the batteries these days.

As soon as I get my 72v controller, I'll post how fast the aotema goes with one. Requires sensorless though, so for using halls and normal controllers a clyte 406 or 407 would be similar. Same thing would apply to a 2806 Nine continent.

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by cell_man » Apr 21 2010 9:29am

The choices to get 40mph are either a big direct drive as has been suggested or you could try a pair of geared hub motors. I've been using a pair of high speed Mac/Puma motors in my bike and at 48V it hits about 64kph on the flat or about 40mph. I have my doubts that a single BMC motor will actually do a genuine 40mph and I can't see it doing it for long. You need quite a bit of power to do that sort of speed, close to 3KW, so you'll need a good battery too. I run just over 30A current limit on each controller so around 65A total under acceleration with peaks above that. The standard rpm motors will not do that speed at that voltage, you'd need to run them at a higher voltage but you might find they run more efficiently with higher volts, lower amps.
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mr.electric   10 kW

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by mr.electric » Apr 21 2010 10:18am

GTR2EBIKE wrote: I'm looking for a fast reliable e-bike and there "40 mph" bike sounds like a good amount of speed to me. Anyone you know of that builds one with a similar or higher speed?
I don't think you will get 40mph and reliable in one bike. Unless you spend a fair number of hours tinkering like all the forum members you will be dissapointed in a fast ebike. It seems like Dogman is one of the few riders who spends a greater number of hours riding than tinkering.Over 5k miles wow. I think I have at least 2 times the tinker hours to riding hours.
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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by leamcorp » Apr 21 2010 11:34am

cell_man wrote:The choices to get 40mph are either a big direct drive as has been suggested or you could try a pair of geared hub motors. I've been using a pair of high speed Mac/Puma motors in my bike and at 48V it hits about 64kph on the flat or about 40mph. I have my doubts that a single BMC motor will actually do a genuine 40mph and I can't see it doing it for long. You need quite a bit of power to do that sort of speed, close to 3KW, so you'll need a good battery too. I run just over 30A current limit on each controller so around 65A total under acceleration with peaks above that. The standard rpm motors will not do that speed at that voltage, you'd need to run them at a higher voltage but you might find they run more efficiently with higher volts, lower amps.
Here's funny thing about this thread... I don't have a good impression based on my experience with them.
On the other hand, I got a rare 1000w BMC Direct Drive proto-type they got last year (1 out of 3 I believe) and this thing does 40mph at 48v (A123). I don't know what happened to their DD offering but its been solid and better than 600w geared one I have.

To get a 40 miler with most motors, you have to forgo some of the creature comfort - like front and rear suspension, thick tire, granny gears, etc.

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by es2150 » Apr 24 2010 8:18am

Good guys, I believe they are trying but with the Internet your screwed before you start. Ever read thegolden motor thread! I am riding 6in. downhill bike with dual crown and don't see the fasinationwith the 40 mph mark. It's almost like the old days when dragsters were just under 300 mph. If you have ever gone 35 plus on a regular bike I give you props but make sure you know road because pot hole at that speed is a disaster. I like torque and being able to get bike up to speed say 20 - 25 cruising and your good. I am running hookworms and can't imagine someone looking to go that fast on 700c type wheels and tires. I know I am going to get plastered with guys probable doing just that but my roads will not support it.

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Electro   10 µW

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by Electro » Apr 26 2010 1:12pm

My recommendation would be for the buyer to beware when it comes to Hi Power Cycles.
I ordered a Black Lightning kit from them and it was a total nightmare.
After almost 2 months of trying to work with them, I had to ask for my money back. :(
Here's my experience in a nutshell:
Called on Mar 9th and ordered kit. Was told it would ship by end of week.
When no tracking number had arrived by the middle of the next week, I called and left a message - never got a response.
I then started calling each day - the phone was never answered, I left messages but still did not receive a call back.
I finally got someone to answer the phone at the end of the second week - they told me they were busy but my motor would ship the following Monday. Well, it didn't - they finally shipped it Mar 26th.
Here's where it gets even better - When the box arrived with my motor kit, I opened it up only to discover that they did not ship the motor controller! Additionally, the axle of the motor was sticking out of the box and I later discovered that the wires going into the axle had been cut. This started a whole new round of trying to get ahold of them and getting a replacement kit. They outright lied to me and told me they had sent a 'loaner' motor kit when I finally disputed the transaction in PayPal.
Worst experience I have ever had buying anything online. After informing them that I was going to contact the Better Busisness Bureau and file a complaint (as well as posting a warning here) they threatened me with legal action!
Here's the kicker - I found another dealer that sells the Black Lighting. I was able to order a kit from them $400 cheaper than Hi Power Cycles and they told me they could ship it that same day (and they actually did!). E-mail me if you want to know where I got the 2nd kit...
===============0&>o

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biohazardman   100 kW

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by biohazardman » Apr 26 2010 1:32pm

I would suggest a 9c much lighter than the 53xx motors although not as bullet proof and from what I have read as of late here on the forum it is the motor of choice for the speed phreaks. You would need to build it yourself though. Just a different higher voltage capable controller and lots of decent batts I would suggest A123 or Lipo in that area. Forty MPH will eventually get you into trouble most places that is if you don't spin out at lower speeds and crash and burn and get injured first as several around here have done. I ride a BMC 600 at thirty and no one even pays any attention including the police.
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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by hi-powercycles » Apr 26 2010 2:01pm

Hello All,
My advice to you is that if you are considering purchasing something from Hi-Power Cycles, give us a call at (323) 325-3390, and make your own educated decision. We are here to help e-bike enthusiasts get the best product possible. Re: Electro- Some people, no matter what you do are just impossible to please (it turns out that these same people, more often than not, are the ones who love to use vulgar and defamatory language when dealing with you on the phone!)

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by dogman dan » Apr 26 2010 4:43pm

I don't know electro, but with a 4 posts level, who does? Guy from your competition? Customer from hell? Guy who did get screwed? Who knows?

But the list of guys I recomend all the time is very short. I don't have a recomended source for BMC motors, nor a source I tell people to avoid for them. Not being on the list, merely means I don't know squat about your operation.

Three ways to make the list, One is to be actively participating in the forum, contributing to the advancement of the state of the technology. The second way is to be so good at what you do everybody starts raving about you all the time. The third way is to send stuff to recognized ES members for thorough testing and review.

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by dbackmtb » Apr 26 2010 7:59pm

I did my research and recently bought 2 ebike kits through the recommendations of forum members that, I believe, know enough to make a valued decision. As it turned out, I couldn't be more satisfied. Sure there are still parts I need to make it work especially when dealing with a more recent FS 9 spd mtb and a rear hub. But that's where this forum should have the answers and if not, the customer service from a reputable ebike dealer is invaluable. After my 2nd conversion is complete, I will post the process and my thoughts as a first time ebiker to help nubees like me.

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by John in CR » Apr 26 2010 10:08pm

GTR2EBIKE,

For an intelligent answer we really need 2 bits of info.
What kind of hills are on your commute?
How much do you weigh?

Dependable fast ebikes aren't too difficult. I would suggest a longer wheelbase and lower seating position than a typical upright. Unless you are lucky enough to enjoy perfect roads, dual suspension is pretty important at high speed, because you really feel even the smallest bumps. For the high power needed for high speed, I'd stick with a rear motor.

Disc brakes are all but mandatory too, and with a properly set up bike, brakes can be your single regular maintenance item.

The X5302 would be the speed king for straight forward rigs. As long as you're not a heavyweight and/or have significant hills to get up, then you can get 40+ without stressing the motor or controller and without having to go up to the more lethal voltages. If your route has lots of stops and starts then the higher torque of a X5303 or X5304 that gets you up to speed quicker might prove more efficient and more thrilling, but you'll sacrifice some top end speed at the same voltage.

If you really are a speed demon and are under 200lb and no big hills, then I think the 5302 is better for you, because it will give a more direct upgrade path to extreme speed.

Please do be careful, and don't ride at those speeds on bike and pedestrian paths, as you'll give a black mark to all ebikers. High powered electric bikes are actually very lightweight silent motorcycles with pedals. Bikes aren't made for the stresses involved, so you need to be alert and follow up on any new squeak or rattle. I'm not saying be paranoid, just pay attention to what your bike tells you.

John
Last edited by John in CR on Apr 27 2010 9:16am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by lcyclist » Apr 26 2010 10:21pm

leamcorp wrote: Here's funny thing about this thread... I don't have a good impression based on my experience with them.
On the other hand, I got a rare 1000w BMC Direct Drive proto-type they got last year (1 out of 3 I believe) and this thing does 40mph at 48v (A123). I don't know what happened to their DD offering but its been solid and better than 600w geared one I have.

To get a 40 miler with most motors, you have to forgo some of the creature comfort - like front and rear suspension, thick tire, granny gears, etc.
I got the other direct drive 1000W BMC; easily goes 34 mph on 36V 6AH of Bosch fat packs. Very reliable daily rider when paired with a modified BMC 30Amp controller. I already logged over 5000 miles on this setup. I can't imagine going faster than 30 mph; enough power for tight spot of my commutes and have fun with the roadies at the same time! :)

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by dogman dan » Apr 27 2010 6:32am

I agree about the speed, 30 mph is about tops for riding on public streets on regular bike frames.

That is, typical bikes under $500. DH frames are another animal, and I can really feel how they are made for those speeds, and the suspension can eat up the bumps easily. I'm working on a bike now to go at least 40 mph, but that is for the death race and will be run on a racetrack where missing a corner is survivable.

A 9 continent 9x7-2807 gets up to pretty decent speed for street use at 48v, reaching 27 mph. The 2806 oughta see 30 mph easily. Plenty for riding on a bike trail, or residential back streets with 25 mph speedlimits.

If 30 mph is the goal, then it doesn't take a very exotic motor. 2806, aotema, clyte 406, etc does it.

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by leamcorp » Apr 27 2010 10:43am

dogman wrote:I agree about the speed, 30 mph is about tops for riding on public streets on regular bike frames.

That is, typical bikes under $500. DH frames are another animal, and I can really feel how they are made for those speeds, and the suspension can eat up the bumps easily. I'm working on a bike now to go at least 40 mph, but that is for the death race and will be run on a racetrack where missing a corner is survivable.

A 9 continent 9x7-2807 gets up to pretty decent speed for street use at 48v, reaching 27 mph. The 2806 oughta see 30 mph easily. Plenty for riding on a bike trail, or residential back streets with 25 mph speedlimits.

If 30 mph is the goal, then it doesn't take a very exotic motor. 2806, aotema, clyte 406, etc does it.
I would say 30 or even 40 mph is more like a goal or capability than a speed that is typically used everyday. Sure my bike could do 40+ mph but I typically do 18mph average.

I guess you're not a rodie (lycra)... I do lots of trip to Vt and after grueling ascent, I typically will do 40-50+ mph on the way down. And this is on a 17lb bike with 700x23c wheels :) I actually feel more in control there than when I'm doing 30mph on a hybrid ebike with all that weight.

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by Electress » Apr 27 2010 3:29pm

Just a little input from a non-biased party. This is not to be mistaken as a bashing.You shouldn`t have to be a lawyer to purchase ANYTHING online or via telephone. When you put your money up for a purchase you should get exactly what you ordered in a TIMELY manner. When you run a "business" the customer should be respected as they respected you at the time of purchase. So if these things were applied, there wouldnt be all this B.S. If there was a problem shipping out the order your company, Hi Power Cycles should have as a "business" contacted your customer and communicated with him or her what the problem was instead of ignoring the phone calls, since you already had his / her money in your bank account. We as the consumer trust in our business owners way too often and in my opinion the reason we do is because we want to trust you and build a business relationship with you for future needs. I guess what gets me the most about this is that Im sure you dont know the personal circumstances of each and everyone of your customers but you dont know how your actions could have or did impact your customer. Maybe this motor was his ONLY means of daily transportation? Or maybe you dont care? Im thinking you dont care about your customers due to taking your sweet time in mailing what was already paid for, not returning calls during your normal business hours then saying a "loaner" motor was in the mail. (but never recieved) Im taking bets you will be out of "business" soon if you dont take these comments and generate them into "Better Customer Service"

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by dbackmtb » Apr 27 2010 6:15pm

Electress, are you by chance related to or connected with Electro. If so, then I would consider your opinion a bit biased.

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by GTR2EBIKE » Apr 29 2010 12:08pm

Electress wrote:Just a little input from a non-biased party. This is not to be mistaken as a bashing.You shouldn`t have to be a lawyer to purchase ANYTHING online or via telephone. When you put your money up for a purchase you should get exactly what you ordered in a TIMELY manner. When you run a "business" the customer should be respected as they respected you at the time of purchase. So if these things were applied, there wouldnt be all this B.S. If there was a problem shipping out the order your company, Hi Power Cycles should have as a "business" contacted your customer and communicated with him or her what the problem was instead of ignoring the phone calls, since you already had his / her money in your bank account. We as the consumer trust in our business owners way too often and in my opinion the reason we do is because we want to trust you and build a business relationship with you for future needs. I guess what gets me the most about this is that Im sure you dont know the personal circumstances of each and everyone of your customers but you dont know how your actions could have or did impact your customer. Maybe this motor was his ONLY means of daily transportation? Or maybe you dont care? Im thinking you dont care about your customers due to taking your sweet time in mailing what was already paid for, not returning calls during your normal business hours then saying a "loaner" motor was in the mail. (but never recieved) Im taking bets you will be out of "business" soon if you dont take these comments and generate them into "Better Customer Service"
You don't have to hide who you are from anyone, by making a new name, I 100% agree with you. Especially when directly told a time frame that it would be delivered in. This is also going to be my only means of daily transportation(besides another bike). Sorry for your experience with them but I hope they have changed now and understand that being customer friendly and providing what originally was stated in the stated amount of time is the way to go.
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John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by John in CR » Apr 29 2010 3:09pm

I thought Electress was Electro's female significant other.

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Re: Hi-power cycles Anyone have experience with them

Post by morph999 » Apr 29 2010 4:24pm

Did you guys know that E+ sells kits now? You make a very stealth electric bike on your own. They build the battery pack into the bike rim.

http://epluselectricbike.com/shop/produ ... -39-4.html

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