BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

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SoSauty   1 kW

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BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by SoSauty » May 15 2010 11:19am

Just cracked open my little Cute 128 motor. The motor size seems to be idenical to BaFang yet the casing diameter on the Cute is 8mm greater and the width about 8mm wider. Wonder how much this'll help cooling? The gears surprisingly are helica? cut and are noticeably larger on the Cute. It'll take me another 7 days (elderly family member passed away; it'll be 5/25, sorry)to get the Cute in a bike and reviewed on this thread and then I'll probably only have a 36V batt as my other bike with 48V was stolen a few days back. Anyway, seems others had questions as to how the BaFang compared to the Cute. Your info is coming :wink:

5/26 Update, ecity has delayed a shipment containing a needed controller. Thought it would've been here a week ago. They say it's on the way and provided me with a DHL reference number. I don't know if that's solid info or if the shipment is still being delayed. My fingers are crossed.
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BaFangCute gears.jpg
left BaFang Cute right
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Last edited by SoSauty on May 26 2010 8:22pm, edited 4 times in total.
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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by docnjoj » May 15 2010 11:34am

Helical cut gears could make a big longevity and low noise difference in the Cute! I anxiously awaite your report! Way cool!
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The Stig   100 kW

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by The Stig » May 15 2010 12:04pm

Excellent thread, thank you for making this comparison 8)

I'm pleasantly suprised that the cute has helical gears, I think that means the gears are less likely to mash?

Anyway I look forward to the results!

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by Grizzlybear » May 15 2010 12:18pm

The Stig wrote:Excellent thread, thank you for making this comparison 8)

I'm pleasantly suprised that the cute has helical gears, I think that means the gears are less likely to mash?

Anyway I look forward to the results!
Helical gears are quieter, but straight cut gears are stronger

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by Drunkskunk » May 15 2010 1:46pm

Grizzlybear wrote:
The Stig wrote:Excellent thread, thank you for making this comparison 8)

I'm pleasantly suprised that the cute has helical gears, I think that means the gears are less likely to mash?

Anyway I look forward to the results!
Helical gears are quieter, but straight cut gears are stronger
Not true. Helical are stronger as well.

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear#Helical
"Spur gears make a characteristic whine at high speeds and can not take as much torque as helical gears. ... the use of helical gears is indicated when the application involves high speeds, large power transmission, or where noise abatement is important. "
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by dogman dan » May 15 2010 2:25pm

Interesting about the gears, not that the straight cut is that noisy unless you use metal gears.

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by docnjoj » May 15 2010 2:30pm

Helicals have a much longer contact patch so they should be both quieter and stronger given the same materials, tooth pitch etc., AFAIK. I'm gunna look it up! Yep it sure looks that way!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear
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E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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GrayKard   10 kW

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by GrayKard » May 15 2010 4:41pm

If I'm remembering correctly from another thread, only the 128 has helical gears, the others have straight gears. Which might make the 128 the preferred motor out of the available Cute motor line.

That being said the 85's I'm running are pretty quiet and so far I haven't toasted the gears. It probably helps that the load is distributed over both motors and the peak amps I see is only 20 at 48 volts. But I don't take it easy on the motors. I usually go WOT every time I take off from a stop and I don't even fake pedal. 8)

Gary

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by Drunkskunk » May 15 2010 5:35pm

I've forgotten who, but there was a thread were someone had dismantled the 100 and 85 Cutes. I think it was the 85 that had the thinner but helical gears.

EDIT: it was Lynchy, and it was the 85
Image
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13998&hilit=cute&start=60
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by GrayKard » May 15 2010 8:17pm

Drunkskunk wrote:I've forgotten who, but there was a thread were someone had dismantled the 100 and 85 Cutes. I think it was the 85 that had the thinner but helical gears.

EDIT: it was Lynchy, and it was the 85
Image
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13998&hilit=cute&start=60
Oh, that was where I read it, thanks. OK so the 85 has helical gears too, cool. I have not opened mine up yet but will be doing that soon to do a bit of rewiring. The front has some damaged wires right at the axle I need to fix.

Gary

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by Grizzlybear » May 16 2010 6:40am

Drunkskunk wrote:
Grizzlybear wrote:
The Stig wrote:Excellent thread, thank you for making this comparison 8)

I'm pleasantly suprised that the cute has helical gears, I think that means the gears are less likely to mash?

Anyway I look forward to the results!
Helical gears are quieter, but straight cut gears are stronger
Not true. Helical are stronger as well.

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear#Helical
"Spur gears make a characteristic whine at high speeds and can not take as much torque as helical gears. ... the use of helical gears is indicated when the application involves high speeds, large power transmission, or where noise abatement is important. "
That's why helical gears are changed for straight cut gears in racing cars, helical gears introduce thrust loading into the equation, not noticable when turning by hand under no load, but considerable in high torque conditions. This is a much debated subject, but those racing guys wouldn't go to all the expense and trouble for nothing.

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by cell_man » May 16 2010 9:47am

I've tried the 108 cute motors, that's actually me above in the pics :mrgreen: Got some 128 motors but haven't tried them yet.

The 108 cute with the helical gears is not as quiet as the Bafang. The small Bafang front motor and the Climber are the quietest geared hub motors I've tried. The small front motor makes a high pitched sound when pulling away from a standstill which is quite different from any other motor I've tried but once going is very quiet.

Not broken any of the gears so cannot comment on strength.
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by drewdiller » May 17 2010 7:58pm

This is somewhat relieving, I run a little more power through my Cute 128 than they are rated for. I was planning on just abusing them so I had an excuse to upgrade! :P

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by The Stig » May 17 2010 11:32pm

Heres what I'm wondering: if I have 36V, what max amps could I run in each motor of a dual cute 128 set up?

I currently am running a single motor at close to 30A and 36V, similar to the bafang but slightly inferior.

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by cell_man » May 18 2010 12:03am

The Stig wrote:Heres what I'm wondering: if I have 36V, what max amps could I run in each motor of a dual cute 128 set up?

I currently am running a single motor at close to 30A and 36V, similar to the bafang but slightly inferior.
I would say 30A is pushing your luck a little with the 128 motor but if it's working for you and they don't get overly hot then go for it. Not sure how well the gears will stand up to that power. A dual motor setup would not give you much if any extra top speed (unless the motors are a higher RPM wind), just more torque and acceleration. You will not pull more than about 85% of you no load rpm, under load. Can't see why you couldn't put just the same power you are into the single as you would into each on a dual setup. I run about 45A and 48V per Mac motor on my bike with high speed motors. About 4500W on acceleration, with over 40mph top speed.
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by The Stig » May 18 2010 1:00am

I'm fully aware that I won't be getting much more top speed, this ebike will need climbing the massive hill to our house, and keep up with slow traffic ~25-30mph... no dangerous speeds for me! When comparing a single BMC 1000W for example, to dual 3kg motors. The dual motor set up will get roughly twice the heat dissapation and at least 33% less average load on the motors. I like gear motors because they keep the unsprung weight down. And although its 36V I like the stock battery mounting and the well equipedness of the A2B. Its a very nice ebike all around, just a little underpowered.

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by SoSauty » May 28 2010 9:55pm

Guess what this e-bike is missing :?:
CuteBuild.jpg
CuteBuild.jpg (82.48 KiB) Viewed 2474 times
You got it! (Besides the battery that's in a bag and ready to go) A controller from ecity :( I hoped the controller would be here long ago and if not, I'd use a Shenzen controller. Well, it's no go with the Shenzen, though there's voltage from the controller and throttle. Ecity says the cute must have their controller to run. If it doesn't arrive soon, I owe an apology to everyone who contributed to this thread and awaits my simple review.
LouCuteMotor.jpg
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by The Stig » May 28 2010 9:58pm

So just to clarify, I want to put two cute 128 motors at 36V 35A(in each motor, so total 36V 70A) in an A2B metro using both stock batteries. I'll probably use ecrazyman infineon controllers.

Any updates on the comparison oh OP?

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by Russell » May 28 2010 9:58pm

SoSauty wrote: Ecity says the cute must have their controller to run.
Any explanation why that is so?????

-R
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by The Stig » May 28 2010 9:59pm

lol good timing, what a coincidence. 10 days later, you answer my question before I posted it :)
SoSauty wrote:Guess what this e-bike is missing :?:
You got it! (Besides the battery that's in a bag and ready to go) A controller from ecity :( I hoped the controller would be here long ago and if not, I'd use a Shenzen controller. Well, it's no go with the Shenzen, though there's voltage from the controller and throttle. Ecity says the cute must have their controller to run. If it doesn't arrive soon, I owe an apology to everyone who contributed to this thread and awaits my simple review.
The Stig wrote:Any updates on the comparison oh OP?

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by SoSauty » May 28 2010 10:17pm

No explanation from ecity other than, our controllers are designed for our motors. They could've meant I needed a sensorless but my Shenzen is a sensorless. I had what I believe was a Climber version of a BaFang before this and it ran beautifully with the sensorless Shenzen controller. The cute doesn't respond to this Shenzen though there's 42V from the batt and 5.1V from the throttle. I tried matching the wires by colors, then Blue-to-blue, switch the other two colors. The motor remained completly lifeless. It should have at least ran incorrectly on one of the 2 combinations. Admittedly, I'm a rank novice at the electrics of this e-bike business. If you can recommend any trouble shooting, I'll give it a go.

I can say that's there's really only room for a 5speed on the hub and then the rim needs to be dished over as far as possible. Nice that the motor wires exit thru the axle on the left side. It did weigh in right at 6.6lbs. It's sensorless, only 2 power wires, 3 throttle, and 3 16ga.motor; simple, the way I like it.
Last edited by SoSauty on Jun 02 2010 9:35am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by drewdiller » May 29 2010 1:40am

Russell wrote:
SoSauty wrote: Ecity says the cute must have their controller to run.
Any explanation why that is so?????

-R
That sounds like some ass-covering.

I run a 22A Infineon controller from e-bikekit.com mated to a Cute 128 rear hub. It works, dare I say it works well.

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by fabiograssi » May 29 2010 6:00am

The Stig wrote:So just to clarify, I want to put two cute 128 motors at 36V 35A(in each motor, so total 36V 70A) in an A2B metro using both stock batteries. I'll probably use ecrazyman infineon controllers.
The stock batteries of the A2B metro can handle with this amperage? I don't think so...

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by evblazer » May 29 2010 10:38am

drewdiller wrote:
Russell wrote:
SoSauty wrote: Ecity says the cute must have their controller to run.
Any explanation why that is so?????

-R
That sounds like some ass-covering.

I run a 22A Infineon controller from e-bikekit.com mated to a Cute 128 rear hub. It works, dare I say it works well.
I test ran my cute 85 sensored hub with a RC ESC with no problems so I'm thinking anything will work.
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by SoSauty » May 29 2010 2:01pm

That sounds like some ass-covering.
Me thinks the same, however the caveat is "sensorless". I did bring in the little red key wire and crimped it with the red power wire into the anderson connector. The Shenzen seems straightforward enough, what else can I try besides hooking it up and putting a multimeter in series to see if power is exiting the controller? The cute motor looks suspious at this point. (suspicion is now on the Shenzen)

Should I try other wiring combinations: Green to green and other pairs; Yellow to yellow and other pairing. What can I check with the motor and multimeter, any continuity to be expected with the 3 motor wires?

Update edit: I tried all wiring combos. Nada. Then got brave with the multimeter and tested with the leads on all wire combos with the Shenzen powered up. I never did get any power voltage, other than 5V from the throttle, as a reading. The Shenzen is now suspect. Either way, the ecity controller is needed.
Last edited by SoSauty on Jun 02 2010 9:36am, edited 5 times in total.
http://www.ebikes.ca/index.shtml No.#1 Trusted E-bike online sales!
3 hardtail MTBs:
-48V Lith-ion 10.5amp hr-408 C-lyte
-BPM 8FUN[*STOLEN]
-run Century rides w/Q100 mini
3 folders:
-20" wife's BaFang,
-20" TurnigyMax50cc airline suitcase folder,
-24" Stewart/Hass 9C; 3.5K/40mph fun racer

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