BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

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Russell   10 MW

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by Russell » May 29 2010 4:53pm

SoSauty wrote:
That sounds like some ass-covering.
Me thinks the same, however the caveat is "sensorless". I did bring in the little red key wire and crimped it with the red power wire into the anderson connector. The Shenzen seems straightforward enough, what else can I try besides hooking it up and putting a multimeter in series to see if power is exiting the controller? The cute motor looks suspious at this point.

Should I try other wiring combinations: Green to green and other pairs; Yellow to yellow and other pairing. What can I check with the motor and multimeter, any continuity to be expected with the 3 motor wires?
I've used both an Ecitypower/BMSBattery universal controller in sensorless mode and a sensorless Ecrazyman Shenzhen controller on my Bafang so I don't see why the Shenzhen sensorless controller should not work with Cute motor. Make sure whatever throttle you're using matches the wiring on the controller and that the controller is indeed powering up. I know you said you used the controller on another motor but if you changed anything make sure it still runs that previous motor. If it does then hook up the Cute motor and it should run either forward or backwards. Do note however that if the wiring is wrong you won't see the wheel spin backwards because of the clutch but you will hear the motor spinning backwards in the case. You should then be able to get it to spin forward by swapping any two phase leads.

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


My other E-Bikes: Nashbar Steel Flatbar

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The Stig   100 kW

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by The Stig » May 29 2010 5:23pm

fabiograssi wrote:
The Stig wrote:So just to clarify, I want to put two cute 128 motors at 36V 35A(in each motor, so total 36V 70A) in an A2B metro using both stock batteries. I'll probably use ecrazyman infineon controllers.
The stock batteries of the A2B metro can handle with this amperage? I don't think so...
Why don't you think so? The internal battery of the A2B metro is deisgned to handle 30A because the stock controller draws up to 30A. According to A2B the extended range battery is identical to the internal battery so put these two batteries in parallel and I'll have 36V 60A. If I squeeze 5A more out of each battery, 70A.

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by SoSauty » May 29 2010 8:01pm

Thanks Russell,

I used another Shenzen with my past BaFang climber set up, which was stolen. Yet this is a new Shenzen Sucteam 30A controller. It doesn't output power when plugged into a hot batt :( With the batt plugged into the Shenzen it only puts out 4.8mV thru the motor wires exiting the controller. That fades to zero when the batt is unplugged.

Hope I'm not overlooking something simple.
Update edit:Ecity shipment arrived today! Their controller also outputs zero yet works with the Cute :wink:

What a learning experience, I should promote from Rookie e-bike builder soon.
Last edited by SoSauty on Jun 02 2010 9:40am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by mwkeefer » May 29 2010 9:11pm

SoSauty wrote:Thanks Russell,

I used another Shenzen with my past BaFang climber set up, which was stolen. Yet this is a new Shenzen Sucteam 30A controller. It doesn't output power when plugged into a hot batt :( With the batt plugged into the Shenzen it only puts out 4.8mV thru the motor wires exiting the controller. That fades to zero when the batt is unplugged.

Hope I'm not overlooking something simple.

What a learning experience, I should promote from Rookie e-bike builder soon.
The shenzen have an ignition wire right? A really thin red wire? Check this lead with a DVM to be sure you have it connected to pack VCC because it should be working fine (or backwards) and forget what comes out of the controller which is AC anyway (basically) but rather monitor the current drawn from the ignition wire when connected and the pack mains...

Hope it helps,
Mike
Regards,
Mike

{My Rides]
2010 Dahon Jack - GNG v1 - LYEN 6FET - 20/40A - 18S2P10AH - Nom:66.6v,1332w
2004 Hard Rock Pro Disc - Recumpence ms eDrive v4 - Astro 3220 4T - 12S2P16AH - HV110 - Left Side Drive - Gearing: 38mph
Nominal Peak Power @ 60 seconds: 5328 watts - Maximum Power: 49.8v, 120A, 5872w
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Russell   10 MW

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by Russell » May 29 2010 10:33pm

SoSauty wrote:Thanks Russell,

I used another Shenzen with my past BaFang climber set up, which was stolen. Yet this is a new Shenzen Sucteam 30A controller. It doesn't output power when plugged into a hot batt :( With the batt plugged into the Shenzen it only puts out 4.8mV thru the motor wires exiting the controller. That fades to zero when the batt is unplugged.

Hope I'm not overlooking something simple.

What a learning experience, I should promote from Rookie e-bike builder soon.
I just hooked up my Shenzhen sensorless controller to a new bare E-BikeKit geared motor to test it for the first time and had no problems.

Hooked up battery to controller
Checked throttle connector from controller and got +5V from red to black wire
Hooked up a throttle
Hooked up 3 test lead jumpers between controller and motor
Twisted throttle and...whala it spun.

For grins I swapped two phase wires and I could hear the motor spinning backwards in the case. I also checked the voltage between two phase wires with a DVM and got 0V in DC and 38V in ac mode at full throttle with the motor connected.

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


My other E-Bikes: Nashbar Steel Flatbar

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by SoSauty » May 29 2010 11:58pm

OK, didn't know to check AC, thought everything was DC. 5V+ red to black throttle; 0V both DC & AC. Took the end plate off the end of the Shenzen but things look glued and screwed. Since it's a new controller, I'm not going further unless JRH says it's oK to try a few things. Yeah, the small red ignition wire is soldered and crimped to the VCC (10 or 12ga. power wire) at the anderson connection. It'll take a little doing to separate it out check it independently. Maybe tomorrow.
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3 hardtail MTBs:
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by SoSauty » Jun 02 2010 10:48pm

OK, here we go; just returned from a 17mile ride, sorry this took so long. I'm 185lbs, it's a 26" bike w/ 1.95" tires. The batt is a 8.2Ahr 36V Li-Mg. The controller, a 28A 12mosfet rated 500W 36V sensored or sensorless Ecity. I thought I ordered a 23A, and it was scarfed up, but ya' don't know what you'll get for $25. The Cute was ordered for 20" wheel, rated 500W 48V; no numbers were etched in the nice shinny finish, just a sticker, which became unreadable when peeled off.

Interesting controller. Connect the wires however and the controller program will adapt. Hook up the battery, connect 2 white wires and see how the motor runs. When it runs well, leave 'em open. After a number of simplistic cruise concepts, this controller has a cruise feature that supercedes anything I've ever come up with. Set the throttle 'bout 7 seconds and it carries on. Bump the throttle again and cruise is off. Downside is the gear doesn't seem to engage smoothly. Occassionally, I can apply the throttle and there's smooth acceleration. More often it hammers, stammers, or some sound as if the gear isn't meshing. Maybe I'll find a way to apply the throttle so it's smooth.

Once rolling the Cute is near silent. I'm running a theoritical peak 1010W to the Cute compared to 960W (48V & 20A controller)to my little BaFang. There's some subjectivity in this, yet the Cute climbs a bit better and the BaFang had about the same amount of extra top speed.

37V28ACute quieter (lith-mg 8.2Ahr). . . .48V20ABaFang quiet (Ping10Ahr)

Top speed, no pedalling. . . . . . . . . . . . .Top speed, no pedalling
:arrow: 20mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :arrow: 21.5mph

Top speed w/ moderate pedalling. . . . . . Top speed w/ moderate pedalling
:arrow: 24mph (level). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .:arrow: 24.5mph (level)

Range w/ lite pedalling. . . . . . . . . . . . . .Range w/ lite pedalling
:arrow: 16-19 mile. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :arrow: 26-30 mile
:arrow: 17.3W p/ mi(roughly). . . . . . . . . . .:arrow: 17.1W p/mi(roughly)

Performance w/ lite pedalling. . . . . . . . . Performance w/ lite pedalling
:arrow: 21mph cruise. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :arrow: 21.5mph cruise
:arrow: 16mph 5% hill. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .:arrow: 15.5mph 5% hill

There's lots of tweaking to be done. I haven't had time to check out the Shenzen controller. Friday I leave California and won't return until mid-August. I'll bring back a 48V and update then.
Last edited by SoSauty on Apr 21 2012 1:19am, edited 3 times in total.
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3 hardtail MTBs:
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-BPM 8FUN[*STOLEN]
-run Century rides w/Q100 mini
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-20" TurnigyMax50cc airline suitcase folder,
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GrayKard   10 kW

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by GrayKard » Jun 02 2010 11:18pm

SoSauty wrote: Downside is the gear doesn't seem to engage smoothly. Occassionally, I can apply the throttle and there's smooth acceleration. More often it hammers, stammers, or some sound as if the gear isn't meshing. Maybe I'll find a way to apply the throttle so it's smooth.
Yeah, I had the same problems with my Cute hub and their 9 fet controller when I had some hall wire damage. Only way I could run without problems was to use very little throttle until over about 12mph. Made some bad noises otherwise. :?

Might be the only reason that did work though was that the rear motor was still working sensored so it would get me rolling until the front could sync up properly.

Thanks for doing this comparison I'm finding it very interesting.

Gary

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by SoSauty » Jan 08 2012 11:43pm

Just got to run the Cute w/ 48V batt on several 27 mile runs the 1st week of Jan/2012. With a 30A controller and 48V, the little motor wanted to cut loose. But with feeble sounding nylon gears I only let it run full throttle on 1 level 250yd stretch. Except for a few redlights getting to the bike path I targeted 21mph pedalling easy enough to not feel drained after the 2 2 hour runs. I feel an Enduro run coming in the near future.

48V28ACute (lith-mg 10.5Ahr). . . .48V20ABaFang (Ping10Ahr)

Top speed, no pedalling, upright . . . . . . . .Top speed, no pedalling, upright position
:arrow: 24.7mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :arrow: 21.5mph

Top speed w/ moderate pedalling. . . . . . Top speed w/ moderate pedalling
:arrow: 26.6mph (level). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :arrow: 24.5mph (level)

Range w/ lite pedalling. . . . . . . . . . . . . .Range w/ lite pedalling
:arrow: 25-29 mile. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :arrow: 26-30 mile
:arrow: 18.2W p/ mi(roughly). . . . . . . . . . . :arrow: 17.1W p/mi(roughly)

Performance w/ lite pedalling. . . . . . . . . Performance w/ lite pedalling
:arrow: 21mph cruise. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :arrow: 21.5mph cruise
:arrow: 18mph 5% hill. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :arrow: 15.5mph 5% hill
In spite of a fresh previously proven sensored controller, the gears on the Cute continued to fail to engage smoothly. My impression is that the 1/4" wide gears only partially engage at 1st but then line up more fully in a few seconds, though there's doesn't seem to be any harmful side effects. The motor never felt so much as warm riding at a coolish 60-69f. With exceptions of stiff headwinds and extended steep inclines, I'd trust the baby Bafang @ 48V, not as much the Cute128. My gut feeling is best not to push the Cute w/ more than 37V 20A.

The Cute128 has been out a while and I don't see the Bafang for sale as often. Hopefully reports of the Cute128 hardiness are forthcoming.
Last edited by SoSauty on Apr 21 2012 1:20am, edited 1 time in total.
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3 hardtail MTBs:
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-BPM 8FUN[*STOLEN]
-run Century rides w/Q100 mini
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-20" TurnigyMax50cc airline suitcase folder,
-24" Stewart/Hass 9C; 3.5K/40mph fun racer

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by cwah » Apr 09 2012 8:38pm

Actually, the cute&28 seem to perform quite good compared to its weight (3kg) vs the BPM that is at 4kg.

You said you wouldn't push the cute at more than 37V20A.

Do you think the cute would survive at 74V20A?
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by motomech » Apr 09 2012 9:17pm

3 Kg. mini-motors have been over-volted to destruction here and it would seem 14S Lipo[58V hot]/20A is the safe upper limit.

Once again, your experience may vary and it's risky to "set" hard numbers with so many variables involved.
Motomech


'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100H 201 frt. mounted, 14S Multistar LiPoly, elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A, Crazy Bobs on Alex DM32's 21 to 22 MPH. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28151&p=1373714&hilit=Idrive#p13737

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by John in CR » Apr 09 2012 9:35pm

Aren't the little Cuties actually inrunners? If so, then that's probably the motor that people need to be using an oil bath to cool.

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by DAND214 » Apr 09 2012 10:19pm

I had 5 of them. Loved them all till I destroyed the gears. throw them away as there was no support for thrm. Got a new one last year feb 2011. Not the same motor not the same gears not even the same wiring.

I still have it and is on a bike for the daughters if and when they want to ride. the bike is a schwinn ladies all aluminum. with 10s2p lipo it weighs 50 lbs.

Runs ok but nothing like tha 3 year old motors. I even think the went cheap on the magnets. I know they went from a 2 gear planetary gear set to a single like a Bafang. With straight cut gears to the pinion shaft. Not as quite as the angled gears were. Wish I could find a set of gears for one. Ananda said they would help but passed the deal to another person and that was the end of help. No support from manufacture or the vendor..

I was running 14s lipo and it was a strong pulling motor, I think what did the last one in was offroading and the bouncing under power did it. Othere ones seemed like the gears got bigger or swelled up and ground away. You could hear the gears getting louder as the started to bind. Once i took it apart I couldn't get the gears back in the ring gear.

Sp now it's a MAC 8t 15s lipo. Or I have a Bafang 8FUN with 12s lipo and it's the wifes ride now.
Dd's are the most rugged as I haven't destroyed any of them yet. 5 geared hubs and 6 DD's in the stable.

at this time it's the MAC for me till I get a new swing arm for my other favorite bike.

Mac is just a great motor, spend the little extra money for the quality and power. IT'S WELL WORTH IT!.

Dan

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by cwah » Apr 10 2012 6:47am

There is no way to replace the gears from the cute motor?

Do they get damaged because of the heat (high amps) or because of the speed? (high voltage). I need higher voltage because I'm on 16" wheel.
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by d8veh » Apr 10 2012 2:03pm

Cwah, I think you should have a go with the 36V 398 rpm Q1OO at 48V. It might just give you what you want. I calculate about 25 mph. Limit the current to 15 amps at first and then increase it if you need a bit more. Your bike is small and light and this motor's light, plus you can use a much smaller battery for more lightness. Also, it should be a quick swap from your other motor. My 24v one easily pulls my bulk along at 20 mph at about 15 amps and 12S pack. If you're lighter than me, you should get a lot better. You'll need someway of cutting down your current - like a Speedict or Cycle Analyst unless your controller's programmable.

Buy a two or three of them while you're at it because they're so cheap, or get one complete kit with the wheel already built to save time and hassle, plus two spare motors in case of stripped gears. That should keep you going for a while.

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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by cwah » Apr 10 2012 3:04pm

Dave, I shouldn't buy a spare motor just in case the gears strip, it's way too expensive.

It's better to get a motor for which I can get replacement part isn't it? Gears would never be as expensive as a motor I suppose?
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Re: BaFang vs Cute 128 motors

Post by motomech » Apr 10 2012 4:23pm

Q100 motor only is $79, I would say that's reasonable. It's the shipping that hurts. That's why it's smart to buy a extra motor now and consolidate the shipping costs.
There is only one mini-motor that parts are availabl as far as I know.
The Bafang QSXH from Johnrobholmes[Holmes Hobbies].
Motomech


'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100H 201 frt. mounted, 14S Multistar LiPoly, elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A, Crazy Bobs on Alex DM32's 21 to 22 MPH. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28151&p=1373714&hilit=Idrive#p13737

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