Bicycle Snobbery

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by jdcburg » Jun 27 2010 10:04am

My LBS is in Massachusetts about 5 miles from the VT border. They have been very supportive of my ebuild, offering mechanical suggestions and even letting me pick through their "used parts" drawers. They've sold a couple of used ebikes (on consignment I think) but they don't want to get into the business until they are convinced (1) there will be a market and (2) the companies they buy from will be around in the future to supply parts and warranty support. They're also concerned about evolving lithium technology. I think they're waiting until the curve flattens out a little - jd
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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by drewdiller » Jun 27 2010 10:34am

I've gotten attitude from only one shop out five I've been to in my area, gladly.

I went to watch a 5-day bike race recently, and brought my e-bike to two of the stages. You never know. The first day was all "Cool!", "How heavy is that?", and questions. The other day was some enthusiasm, but equal parts, "Pfft, there's the motor, you can't hide that", "That's cheating", "How cheap is that", and one guy, "What a shill".

Hey, dude. Look up the definition of the word shill (I did). Does my electrical-taped monstrosity of an e-bike really suggest my pockets are lined by someone else? NO.

To the people who suggest I cheat, I've settled on a one liner that works pretty well:

"You can't cheat at transportation."

I'll add on some reasoning if they phrase their question a certain way. Lack of shower, parking, enjoyment, etc.

Almost forgot, at the last race stage, I was taking video in one spot, near a rack full of bikes, looked like a team. Some people - turned out to be the team mechanics - peppered me with questions and I finally offered that they take a ride. Guess what they came back with? EV grin.

So, again, you just never know.

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by drewdiller » Jun 27 2010 10:38am

auraslip wrote:
A guy who rides an E-bike 5 days a week to work and back is probably healthier and more environmentally friendly than a "serious" bicyclist who only rides for fun on the week-ends.
Yeah for real. I've spent more time on my bike in the last month than you have all year.
I can attest to this. My e-bike helped me with motivation during the winter (not to mention providing power in sketchy parts while I focused on handling) - by the time spring arrived and I experienced my first e-bike malfunction, I switched to my other bike and realized my legs had POWER! I didn't expect that at all.

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by docnjoj » Jun 27 2010 12:27pm

Hi georgefromvt and welcome
I used to live in Brattleboro Vt and am familiar with some snobby bike shops. That is a neet looking bike and the price seems reasonable for Lithium power. Let us know how that crank attached motor works out. Enjoy ebiking!
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veloman   1 GW

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by veloman » Jun 27 2010 3:30pm

That's too bad.

I am that "20 something tour de france spandex jock" type. But I love ebikes, for fun and commuting. Different types of bikes for different purposes, I see no reason why bike shops should be so snobby. I get flack from my bike shop friends back home when I mention an electric bike. Nothing wrong with electric, it gets you moving faster which is safer, more fun, and reduces most or all of your workload so you don't sweat like crazy during a commute.

I wonder how well my 3rd ebike build will be accepted among the roadies I occasionally ride with. They shouldn't make any snide remarks as I motorpace them at 30mph. :D
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lester12483   10 kW

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by lester12483 » Jun 27 2010 5:20pm

Im going to add in my two cents here. Bicycle shops frown on ebikes because most dont understand the technology. Some have had bad experiences with chinese ebikes breaking down all the time.
Some bike shops wont touch ebikes because their product liability insurance would be sky high. They just cant afford it.

All ebikes have problems sooner or later. Im getting more and more calls from people buying ebikes over the internet that break down and need repair. I feel bad for somone who spends 2k on an ebike with nowhere to take it for repairs.

I try to help, but if its not one of my builds its hard to back engineer and fix it. I advise anyone buying an ebike to find out who will fix your bike if it breaks down.
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The bike arrived!!!

Post by georgefromvt » Jun 29 2010 9:47pm

My R Martin R 12a bike arrived in a big brown box. Assembly required. I installed the front wheel, fender, adjusted the brakes, charged the battery and also installed the handle bars. My impression: Very high quality bike, good tires, well thought of design. Really like the easily accessed battery hatch; tilt the seat, turn the key and the battery can be lifted out. The battery is a 36 V 10 AM lithium battery. The battery, bike and electrical connectors are all top rate. The only down side; the torque power is a disappointment. The R Martin ad boasts excellent hill climbing, obviously the Texas hills aren't like our Vermont Hills. For incredible power and torque, a DIY kit might make better sense. Electric bikes like Ezee, Giant and Liberty bikes, while all decent well made bikes tend to play it safe regarding speed and torque. Am I happy I purchased the R Martin bike? Yes--it is a well made bike with adequate power for flat, easy rides. Do i wish it had more torque? Yes!!!! http://www.electricbikedistributor.com/ ... cycle.html
New Bike R Martin R 12a 024 (640x480).jpg
Well packaged bike. Only one small paint scratch on the inner stem.
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:)
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R Martin 12 a, minus the battery, it's being charged.
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LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Jun 30 2010 4:28pm

Looks good! Glad you got a bike you like. :)

I think the decision between a complete bike and a kit comes down to what your skills/tolerance/enjoyment of building your own, because if you want more power, unless you go really high-end, your not going to find it in MOST ready to ride bikes.

To get that extra power, you have to be more willing to build your own, and have that "not quite legal" E-Bike Grin. :mrgreen: :twisted:

I have noticed that most kits on the lower end (even in the $500 range) have poor quality or just passable connectors. Part of this is because 90% of them seem to be made in China, and the other part is since it's a kit, most people like to make their own battery pack, or at least adapt one from another vendor, and everyone has a different preference on what connector to buy. I prefer just the simple bullet connectors for most of my stuff, cheap and able to handle heat well.
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moostrodamus   100 W

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by moostrodamus » Jun 30 2010 4:54pm

People want to be cool...if someone they admire and think are cool (bike shop mentor maybe?) say e-bikes are uncool they will run around saying e-bikes are un cool, with no real world experience to back it up.

All kinds of prejudice is born this way. The strong minds influencing the weak.

As e-bikes become more popular i suspect these same people who poo poo e-bikes will become advocates, and look down their noses at "the old farts" that adopted the technology years before them, and go on an on about how THEY are ahead of the curve on everything "e-bike".

Its all bullshit, played out over and over for hundred (maybe thousands?) of years. Don't let it get to you, Sheep are sheep, wolves are wolves...we are wolves...

Also...wouldn't hurt to have some hot chicks in Bikinis on e- bikes on this site and around the web, would save us a lot of time promoting the cool factor of riding electric....

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by drewdiller » Jun 30 2010 5:11pm

moostrodamus wrote: Also...wouldn't hurt to have some hot chicks in Bikinis on e- bikes on this site and around the web, would save us a lot of time promoting the cool factor of riding electric....

Moo
That's close to how EZ Beach Attachments does it with their fat bikes (personally I just want the bike because it's got 4" wide tires for less than a Surly Pugsley):

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moostrodamus   100 W

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by moostrodamus » Jun 30 2010 5:14pm

Lets see if it makes a difference in new builds...

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moostrodamus   100 W

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by moostrodamus » Jun 30 2010 5:21pm

BTW...just waiting for a lady rider to beat the crap out of me....


You can put hot /men up too...sorry, will edit original post
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Want more power!!!

Post by georgefromvt » Jun 30 2010 6:48pm

Want more power!!!!!! Really love my R Martin 12a bike but I want more!!!!!!!!! The bike's quality is outstanding and even comes with metal forks! Anyone out there modify a store bought E bike! Thinking of putting a brushless geared motor hub on the front tire with it's own battery and controller--independent from the original one. Any suggestions? Thinking of something lighter but with good torque since the bike is already 60 lbs. I already have a spare 36 V 10 amp LIPOLY sitting around from my old EBIKEKIT conversion kit. Any suggestions?
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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by dingoEsride » Jul 01 2010 12:55am

Re: I've been looking to purchase an electric bicycle for the last year and VERY disappointed with the snobbery I get everytime I walk into a bicycle shop. I would ask do you stock electric bikes and often hear attitude and smart remarks like ' we have mucles, don't need motors' or they would make a funny face and smirk.

I think that some of those lycra clad riders are somewhat snobby anyway, reason is maybe they spend a fortune on a super light bike, wear super tight clothes, shave their legs for extra slip and ride long rides going nowhere just to keep up their fitness where as we have heavy bikes and add more weight in batteries motors etc. wear jeans, checked shirts or comfortable clothing and still be able to keep up and even pass them on a long haul with groceries on board, probably pisses them off somewhat
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Re: Want more power!!!

Post by madact » Jul 01 2010 4:11am

georgefromvt wrote:Want more power!!!!!! Really love my R Martin 12a bike but I want more!!!!!!!!!
Huh. Looking at http://www.electricbikedistributor.com/ ... cycle.html, they say
High Torque 200 watt bracket mount motor (750 watt equivalent)
... say what?

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by georgefromvt » Jul 01 2010 5:18am

The torque is OK for the average person but I'm not an average person. 50 Y/O overweight ageing baby boomer here. I'm hitting the scales at 210 lbs. As I said, the bike is excellent but being as heavy as I am, could use more torque. I'm about 40 lbs overweight. Yes, I do peddle and no objection to a good work out but our hills here in Vermont are not the type of hills in Texas. Of course, what man doesn't want more power/torque. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G7xBpu7Bzk
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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by docnjoj » Jul 01 2010 7:57am

I wonder how that bottom bracket motor would handle 48 volts?
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E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
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lester12483   10 kW

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by lester12483 » Jul 01 2010 7:35pm

Bring the bike to Chicago. Ill add a 500 watt motor to the front fork.
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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by georgefromvt » Jul 02 2010 5:17am

If I lived in Chicago would take up your offer. Do you know where I can purchase a 200-250 watt brushless hub motor and controller? Thanks.

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by veloman » Jul 02 2010 4:02pm

dingotookmybaby wrote:Re: I've been looking to purchase an electric bicycle for the last year and VERY disappointed with the snobbery I get everytime I walk into a bicycle shop. I would ask do you stock electric bikes and often hear attitude and smart remarks like ' we have mucles, don't need motors' or they would make a funny face and smirk.

I think that some of those lycra clad riders are somewhat snobby anyway, reason is maybe they spend a fortune on a super light bike, wear super tight clothes, shave their legs for extra slip and ride long rides going nowhere just to keep up their fitness where as we have heavy bikes and add more weight in batteries motors etc. wear jeans, checked shirts or comfortable clothing and still be able to keep up and even pass them on a long haul with groceries on board, probably pisses them off somewhat

Being a roadie, I know a lot of roadies. There is this culture of 'the heard' and tradition. You need to earn the respect of these riders because THEY know how hard it is of an activity. You wizzing by on electric power - it doesn't earn you much of anything to most cyclists. A lot of roadies are just unfriendly to begin with, although many are friendly too. It depends on where you are, and what's going on. If you have some guy doing a hard workout, don't expect him to talk to you or make a super friendly gesture. There is quite a big divide between human powered transport and motorized transport. Road cyclists are not going to normally extend much gratitude toward you just because you are on a bike. I, am a bit different because I realize the utility of an ebike, and I pretty much like anyone who is riding a bike smartly.

One thing that I notice, with a lot of you guys on this forum - you think it's some sort of competition out there. You against the spandex lycras. You laugh at the spandex and lightweight bikes and aerdynamic position. But honestly, it's ridiculous to do so. You must have no idea at how efficient such clothes, bikes and the aero position are. It takes you twice as much power to go the same speed as the dorky spandex guys - that's laughable in my opinion.

If I'm out there in my roadie gear, pushing myself hard and get passed by an ebiker (never has happened), I could care less. I'm not going to think "oh you're cheating, grrrrr! I am going to be snobby to you!". That's silly. I will think how nice it is that you aren't polluting my air with your transportation. If I catch up to you, I'll thank you for riding an ebike. I may even ask to draft you.

Stop with the thinking that it's some sort of competition out there. That's the same as showing up at a weight lifting competition with a forklift and saying "hey look how much I can lift with no effort!" My point is that you sound ridiculous anytime you compare performance of your machine power against human power.
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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by dingoEsride » Jul 03 2010 1:09am

georgefromvt wrote:If I'm out there in my roadie gear, pushing myself hard and get passed by an ebiker (never has happened), I could care less. I'm not going to think "oh you're cheating, grrrrr! I am going to be snobby to you!". That's silly. I will think how nice it is that you aren't polluting my air with your transportation. If I catch up to you, I'll thank you for riding an ebike. I may even ask to draft you.

Stop with the thinking that it's some sort of competition out there. That's the same as showing up at a weight lifting competition with a forklift and saying "hey look how much I can lift with no effort!" My point is that you sound ridiculous anytime you compare performance of your machine power against human power.
Hey Veloman!. I think you read me wrong mate, Just saying that the road type racers have a different purpose for a bike than the general cyclist commuter type, they train hard, head down bum up, a totally different style to most just getting from here to there, I have no intention of competing with them, my brother has a road racer and he's spent close to 10g on a bike that is super light and if I ride it I go fast too, and one of his mates from his training group is in a rock band, a great bunch of guy's, but if I'm on the road and a a racer is coming the other way very rarely would I get a wave or a nod from them whereas most others would
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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by Zoot Katz » Jul 03 2010 1:51am

When I rode a Norton I'd give a little wave to other motorcyclists.
Harley riders never waved back. BMW riders rarely.
Sports car drivers were the same. They don't wave to all drivers but acknowledge each other, depending on their car's presumed status.

Being a bicyclist, I've always been snobby to all of them because I have the superior machine.

I've noticed too that cyclists wave to each other less frequently as their numbers swell during summer.
I feel quite comfortable saying hi or making a comment at a stop light when I'm stopped next to a total stranger.

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by dingoEsride » Jul 03 2010 5:41am

when I was riding road motorbikes on a sunday country ride most oncoming riders would raise the right fingers as a g'day gesture, but on a working going to work commuting that would happen less, but I liked when in a combie van other combie drivers wave
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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by madact » Jul 03 2010 8:38am

veloman wrote: One thing that I notice, with a lot of you guys on this forum - you think it's some sort of competition out there. You against the spandex lycras. You laugh at the spandex and lightweight bikes and aerdynamic position. But honestly, it's ridiculous to do so. You must have no idea at how efficient such clothes, bikes and the aero position are. It takes you twice as much power to go the same speed as the dorky spandex guys - that's laughable in my opinion.
I have a fairly good idea, actually - while my current getting-around bike is a (very basic, 10-speed) drop-handlebar road racer, bike efficiency and aerodynamics has been a keen interest of mine for some time... and no offence to you, but the clothes, bikes and so-called 'aero' position are just trying to make the best of a very bad thing. The only places where a UCI-style "ordinary bicycle" frame does a good job are hill climbing (which a sit-up cycle or MTB do almost as well) and stacking into a tight space (where folding bikes do better) - admittedly, the kind of bikes most people put electric assist on aren't paragons of aerodynamic efficiency, but neither is a roadie.

The long and short of it is, if you take a decent recumbent, bike or trike, add your lycra-gang rider in boardies, thongs and a t-shirt, and put him up against his own best times on a roadie, he'll be breaking PBs with leisurely ease on the flat, and will be only marginally slower on long inclines than before, if at all. Add a fairing and you have something with which the aforementioned lycra-gang guy can cruise at 50kph for hours at a stretch, and not even need to shave his legs :lol:

You have to remember that the sport of cycling has been regulated to provide entertainment to the masses by providing a 'level playing field' on which the 'best rider' can win, twenty-grand carbon-fibre and titanium 'technical marvels' aside. Dressing up in lycra and spending huge money, time and effort on microscopic weight savings, elliptical spokes and 'slickness' isn't about going fast on human power alone, at all - there are far more effective ways to do that. It's about feeling like you're the star in the tour-de-france, a sporting hero, and not riding something unfashionably 'weird' - if that rocks your boat and motivates you to keep fit, more power to you - I could certainly do well to find such motivation for myself :oops: - and there's no denying the camaraderie in cycling (or any activity of that sort) with a group of mates has a value all it's own. But if you just want to get top speed on your own muscles, it's a bit of a waste of time, and an expensive one at that...

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Re: Bicycle Snobbery

Post by veloman » Jul 03 2010 12:16pm

madact wrote:

I have a fairly good idea, actually - while my current getting-around bike is a (very basic, 10-speed) drop-handlebar road racer, bike efficiency and aerodynamics has been a keen interest of mine for some time... and no offence to you, but the clothes, bikes and so-called 'aero' position are just trying to make the best of a very bad thing. The only places where a UCI-style "ordinary bicycle" frame does a good job are hill climbing (which a sit-up cycle or MTB do almost as well) and stacking into a tight space (where folding bikes do better) - admittedly, the kind of bikes most people put electric assist on aren't paragons of aerodynamic efficiency, but neither is a roadie.

The long and short of it is, if you take a decent recumbent, bike or trike, add your lycra-gang rider in boardies, thongs and a t-shirt, and put him up against his own best times on a roadie, he'll be breaking PBs with leisurely ease on the flat, and will be only marginally slower on long inclines than before, if at all. Add a fairing and you have something with which the aforementioned lycra-gang guy can cruise at 50kph for hours at a stretch, and not even need to shave his legs :lol:

You have to remember that the sport of cycling has been regulated to provide entertainment to the masses by providing a 'level playing field' on which the 'best rider' can win, twenty-grand carbon-fibre and titanium 'technical marvels' aside. Dressing up in lycra and spending huge money, time and effort on microscopic weight savings, elliptical spokes and 'slickness' isn't about going fast on human power alone, at all - there are far more effective ways to do that. It's about feeling like you're the star in the tour-de-france, a sporting hero, and not riding something unfashionably 'weird' - if that rocks your boat and motivates you to keep fit, more power to you - I could certainly do well to find such motivation for myself :oops: - and there's no denying the camaraderie in cycling (or any activity of that sort) with a group of mates has a value all it's own. But if you just want to get top speed on your own muscles, it's a bit of a waste of time, and an expensive one at that...
That's an astute observation, I agree. I've been thinking about getting a low-racer recumbent and/or a fully faired trike. My main hesitation is the reduced visibility in traffic and reduced quick handling and maneuvering when I get cut off by a car.

But yeh, right now I'm trying to transport myself around on a UCI legal bike, which in reality is far from efficient at >25mph compared to what is possible (fully faired hpv). I don't even race my bike anymore, and I don't "train", I just ride for speed and fun.

Putting an electric motor on a streamlined hpv is about the smartest most efficient way to get around, from an energy/power perspective.
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