German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

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Matthijs   100 W

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German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by Matthijs » Jul 05 2010 6:15am

After browsing some German bike sites I came across this:

Image

The Blacktrail, it's ready for delivery in 60 days. If you have deep pockets. :shock:

http://www.pg-bikes.com/epages/PGBikes.sf?Locale=en_GB
http://www.pg-bikes.com/epages/PGBikes. ... ectID=8216
PG- Bikes & UBC presents the future of Urban Transport devices!

The BlackTrail
UBC provides the engineering and light construction experience through their Formular One Know How & PG-Bikes claims for the ultimate power, strength and design!
This Union has born the lightest, most powerful, fastest and most technological 2 wheels driven E-Bike worldwide!

Limited to 667 pieces!

Technical Specifications:
Length: 1896mm
Width: 620mm
Height: 982mm

Maximum Speed: 100 km/h

Cruising Speed: 30-50 km/h

Range based on maximum speed: 40 – 60km
Range based on cruising speed: 160 – 200km

Main materials:

- Carbon Fibre
- High alloyed Aluminum (used by NASA)
- Titan
- Magnesium

Weight: 19,8kg

Wheelset:

Wheelset Varus: Full Carbon Fibre
Full Weight (Front & Back Wheel): 1600g
Most solid and lightest Wheelset on earth!

Tires:
BlackTrail Special 3.0“ x 26“
Powder coating & Brushing:
Individual color and coating!

Drivetrain: CM48 V hybrid engine
Engine Performance: 1,2 KW Output/ 140NM
Control Logic: CM with 3 driving modes combined with the BlackTrail BT667 Software
Battery: CM 48 Volt Lithium Ion 17 Ah
Battery Lifespan: min. 2500 - 5000 charging cycles
Charging Time: 30min (80%) 150min (100%)

Brakes: Hope Tech V2 Disc Brakes ventilated

Lights: LED Deluxe with the following functions:
Dim Light
Brake Light
Back Light

Display: OLED Display with the following functions:
Battery status
Charging Cycles status
Speed indicator
Illumination
Administration Tool for individual motor, engine and power management!
Extra set of wheels? No problem! Only €11.900! :shock:



Google translation:
The Bike-Tuning Workshop PG bikes from Regensburg provides exclusive bikes for an exclusive audience. Last Tuesday, the company presented to Managing Director Manuel Ostner a large, if not the largest litter its history. "In cooperation with the firm" UBComposites GmbH, specialist for pioneering carbon-technology and many years in Formula 1 Sports, developed the Regensburg forge a bike wheel of superlatives. Enormous development, know-how from Formula 1 and sports do have the space to incorporate the electric bicycle maker in the Black Trail. Speeds up to 100 kmh should be possible with the vehicle. The developers speak of an incipient revolution, the two-wheeler market is expected to influence powerful. Technically, the wheel on the stand of the possible feasible, which is clearly reflected in the price of 50,000 € (net) again. The manufacturer communicates the wheel in the net price, without VAT, since it will serve primarily the international market. In Germany, the wheel is in the retail price in saturated 59.000 .- €

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 05 2010 6:33am

Good for them. Obviously the price is a bit absurd, but this seems to be the first of the absurdly priced machines that features a useful battery capacity, and isnt just a hubmotor fitted with fancy cnc side covers.

Wont likely be purchased by many our member group, but its a great thing that the folks with proper funding have a useful performance ebike option available.
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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by georgefromvt » Jul 05 2010 6:48am

Wow!!! So expensive and ugly! Sorry to say but that's one of the ugliest looking bikes I have ever seen. Let the Eurotrash ride their expensive ugly looking bikes. It's obviously meant for those with more money than taste or common sense.

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by adrian_sm » Jul 05 2010 6:59am

Don't mind the styling. Would never have thought of carbon fibre, and retro leather.

But how does a 1.2kW motor get you to 100km/hr, with crap aero. 60km/hr would be more like it.
And efficiency seems a bit optimistic. 16wh/km @ 100km/hr, and 4.5wh/km @ 40km/hr. Yeah right.
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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by Ariane » Jul 05 2010 7:18am

adrian_sm wrote:Don't mind the styling. Would never have thought of carbon fibre, and retro leather.

But how does a 1.2kW motor get you to 100km/hr, with crap aero. 60km/hr would be more like it.
And efficiency seems a bit optimistic. 16wh/km @ 100km/hr, and 4.5wh/km @ 40km/hr. Yeah right.

I have the same thinking, good day!
Black Arrow

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 05 2010 7:23am

BlackArrow wrote:
adrian_sm wrote:Don't mind the styling. Would never have thought of carbon fibre, and retro leather.

But how does a 1.2kW motor get you to 100km/hr, with crap aero. 60km/hr would be more like it.
And efficiency seems a bit optimistic. 16wh/km @ 100km/hr, and 4.5wh/km @ 40km/hr. Yeah right.

I have the same thinking, good day!
Black Arrow

Well, naturally on the worlds most expensive ebike, you have Lance Armstrong pedaling his heart out as your test rider when you do speed and range testing. ;)

Or, the 1200w is a "1200w" rating they had to claim to meet some qualifications to be road legal as a scooter or whatever.
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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by adrian_sm » Jul 05 2010 7:29am

:D

He would still have to pump out 3500W for 30min to make max speed range.
:shock:
Damn Lance must be one serious machine.
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by Matthijs » Jul 05 2010 8:50am

georgefromvt wrote:Wow!!! So expensive and ugly! Sorry to say but that's one of the ugliest looking bikes I have ever seen. Let the Eurotrash ride their expensive ugly looking bikes. It's obviously meant for those with more money than taste or common sense.
Strangely enough, in the video they say their target area is Hollywood. From the 667 pieces they want to create it seems they have already sold a couple to the Bloodhound gang, Mickey Rourke and Tony Hawk. I do not think they sold any in Europe yet.

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by Doctorbass » Jul 05 2010 9:31am

Ah I found why it cost that rediculous price!!!

it work with a supraconductor brushless motor!!! and it need liquid nitrogen to operate.. they did not mention that....



:P

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by veloman » Jul 05 2010 2:15pm

Wait, Whiplash from Ironman 2 wants an electric bike?? LOL (Mickey Rourke right?)

I like the range and weight.
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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by GrayKard » Jul 05 2010 2:35pm

This Union has born the lightest, most powerful, fastest and most technological 2 wheels driven E-Bike worldwide!
Two wheels driven? Now why would they waste their time doing that? :lol:

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Jul 05 2010 3:58pm

Doctorbass wrote:Ah I found why it cost that rediculous price!!!

it work with a supraconductor brushless motor!!! and it need liquid nitrogen to operate.. they did not mention that....



:P

Doc

SSSHHHHHHHHHHH!! Don't say that too loud doc, you might keep Jay Leno from buying one! :wink:

Wow, ALL it needs is liquid nitrogen? Everyone has a tank in their garage, how thoughtful and practical! :roll:

Now I know what to use my superconductor motor on that I have in my closet on .. LOL!! :lol:


All I can say is even if it's not Vapor Ware, it might as well be! I'm still waiting to hear about this battery that makes that kind of performance AND goes for 5,000 charge cycles?

Maybe they forgot to tell all the other EV manufacturers about these new super batteries ... oh ya ... I guess even most EV producers aren't interested in something that needs liquid nitrogen for cooling! :roll: :P

As far as the aesthetics, I dont' mind the shape of the frame too much, but if your going to go 60MPH, use CF, Space-worthy Aluminum you would THINK they could come up with a better shape for the battery than the standard BOX?! :roll:

I wouldn't pay that much for anything on 2 wheels, but I'm not Jay Leno either, but I bet even he would be skeptical of such an impractical machine. :wink:

Just the same, if it is really as good of a performer as they say, maybe it will lead to some more practical tech that will come to the mainstream eventually.



Thanks for sharing the info! 8)



I hope they put there money where their mouth is and get some official recording of the performance claims (unless they already have) if not, I'm still willing to bet doc's got the fastest e-bike. 8)

I know duct-tape isn't as sexy, but if they spent a little less on the CF, Aluminum and Liquid Nitrogen cooled electrics, and more time looking at this board, I'd be willing to believe the same speed, and similar range could be made by someone here with newer prismatic LiFe or LiPo type batteries. Might not get the same range, but hell, you could take the $60,000 you saved and do something much more useful with it! :mrgreen:
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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by docnjoj » Jul 05 2010 4:54pm

If they could get the motor to "superconduct" at -100F (dry ice) you can get refills in the supermarket!
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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by Doctorbass » Jul 05 2010 5:08pm

docnjoj wrote:If they could get the motor to "superconduct" at -100F (dry ice) you can get refills in the supermarket!
otherDoc

I know they will do that.. My previous job was in a lab where they was working on that!

One day we will have supraconductor at ambiant temp!.. and our little 18 fets infineon controller will fit in a pocket!!!

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by adrian_sm » Jul 05 2010 5:11pm

LI-ghtcycle wrote: .... but if your going to go 60MPH, use CF, Space-worthy Aluminum you would THINK they could come up with a better shape for the battery than the standard BOX?! :roll:

I wouldn't pay that much for anything on 2 wheels,

........

you could take the $60,000 you saved and do something much more useful with it! :mrgreen:
Or at least have some suspension. 100kph on a hardtail. WTF.

For the money give me 10 stealth bombers so I can rip it up with a bunch of mates. :D
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
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Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by Whiplash » Jul 05 2010 6:28pm

Agreed, beautiful craftsmanship but WTF? 50K? I am surprised Tony Hawk bought one, I thought he was smarter than that...
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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by johnrobholmes » Jul 05 2010 6:35pm

Sometimes companies will start the "innovator" buyers on a cheaper price to get interest going.

Cool bike overall. It could totally be produced for $10k retail with a bit of volume.

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Jul 05 2010 8:03pm

adrian_sm wrote:
LI-ghtcycle wrote: .... but if your going to go 60MPH, use CF, Space-worthy Aluminum you would THINK they could come up with a better shape for the battery than the standard BOX?! :roll:

I wouldn't pay that much for anything on 2 wheels,

........

you could take the $60,000 you saved and do something much more useful with it! :mrgreen:
Or at least have some suspension. 100kph on a hardtail. WTF.

For the money give me 10 stealth bombers so I can rip it up with a bunch of mates. :D
Yeah! I meant to mention the hard-tail part too, I know it's do-able, and I am still trying to plug my ears and sing "lalalalaala" when people talk about full suspension because I want to believe I can get away with-out it on my bike (I just LOVE the Trek hard-tail frame I got recently :mrgreen:) , but for that kinda money they NEED to have had a single sided swing arm! :roll:

Image
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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by GrayKard » Jul 05 2010 8:07pm

I think I found their inspiration for this bike.

bt01low284291m.jpg
bt01low284291m.jpg (25.11 KiB) Viewed 855 times

cyc_boneshaker.jpg
cyc_boneshaker.jpg (24.19 KiB) Viewed 3736 times

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Jul 05 2010 8:12pm

GrayKard wrote:I think I found their inspiration for this bike.

bt01low284291m.jpg

cyc_boneshaker.jpg
ROFLOL!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by whitecat » Jul 06 2010 12:44am

Thats a complete and utter dissapointment for the price it is asking; those ppl seem so self satisfied talking about their overblown bike, but it is obvious noone has ever ridden an E-bike before. It they had, they would have known mayor errors in design of this thing they made - no suspension for a 60 mph - thats an accident waiting to happen. Carbon frame, fork, rims, spokes if I see right? Another BIG no no on a e-bike. If it was to save weight, ok, but then such a bike belongs to the museum, not on the road. I had enough exp with carbon, and thank you very much, but never again.

And to top it off, battery is nothing special. To conclude, there is no way that thing is worth the asking price, another museum example there. Looks nice (well to me it looks horrendous, but tastes are different), but is not safe for riding as is. Regardless what they say, this is a fail whatever way you look at it. Much better e-bike can be made for a tenth of the asking price - well, that makes this a deluxe fail :mrgreen:

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 06 2010 8:50am

Well... if $60,000 means what you pay in fuel for a weekend on your boat, or half of what the last friday night party you threw cost etc etc, then the price isnt a big concern, might even be the best enjoyment value for the dollar on anything you've bought for years (most things dont cause ear-to-ear grins like ebikes.)

As far as value to us goes? Price is about x20 too high, it looks flawed to us and has over inflated claims. But its not made for us.

I think its neat that if you have big budget limits, now you can order up a premade ebike that has a useful battery capacity, and has the good performance a non-hub-drive can provide.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by AussieJester » Jul 06 2010 9:01am

liveforphysics wrote:Well... if $60,000 means what you pay in fuel for a weekend on your boat, or half of what the last friday night party you threw cost etc etc, then the price isnt a big concern
Too true Luke these celebs drop more on a big night out than most ern in a year 60k is pocket change LoL

Maybe we should start laying up some CF frames for e-bikes Luke and taking advantage of the finacial status of these
environmental conscious tree huggin hippy celebs :mrgreen:

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Jul 06 2010 9:21am

I would agree with you AJ, but don't forget the optional Hemp seat and battery cover for the vegans! :shock:

After all, you don't need a lot of proof about it's claims, just don't give PETA reasons to burn them at rallies! :oops:

Oh wait, now that I think of it, I would LOVE to see a PETA protest where they are burning one of these bikes!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: German 60 mph E-Bike Blacktrail : €59.500

Post by Seriousknot » Jul 07 2010 6:28pm

I wonder if they have a finance plan?
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