New Ride (thread redux!)

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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NorCalTuna   1 W

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New Ride (thread redux!)

Post by NorCalTuna » Aug 13 2010 5:24am

Check out this bad johnny! Fresh back from Buchanan- x5303, 17 x 1.6"
photo-16.JPG
HOLY SPOKES, BATMAN!
(Yes, LFP, AJ, Et al, it weighs a ton)
Last edited by NorCalTuna on Aug 18 2010 8:08pm, edited 1 time in total.

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: New Wheel

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 13 2010 5:32am

That is a massively strong wheel.
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Re: New Wheel

Post by dogman dan » Aug 13 2010 5:38am

So that's a moped or motorcycle rim? Cool.

NorCalTuna   1 W

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Re: New Wheel

Post by NorCalTuna » Aug 17 2010 7:39pm

Thanks KFC, Dogman!

It's a repro of what would be found on a honda c90 or early yamaha dirt bike. It's not light but DOT app. and very nice looking. I have a matching 1.4" front- the chrome should look nice with my very black bike and goldish forks...

I wanted to get away from bike tires, so I'll be using a michelin moped tire, the m62. I'm very concerned that ride height- and hence rake and trail- wont be sufficient in the front, but i have some space to lower the bike in the back and am building shorty cranks so can pedal faster with less pedal strike danger in corners...

stay tuned...

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Re: New Wheel

Post by dbaker » Aug 17 2010 7:49pm

What did it cost to get Buchanan to provide the spokes and build the wheel? Did you provide the rim? I am running a 17" Michelin 4 ply moped tire on my 9C. DOT rating for 70mph! Gonna really hurt if I get a flat and have to patch it on the side of the road!

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johnrobholmes   1.21 GW

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Re: New Wheel

Post by johnrobholmes » Aug 17 2010 11:34pm

Looks quite nice! I know Buchanan ain't cheap, I used them for quite a few builds before I started sourcing spokes myself.

Did you go with 11ga or 10 ga?

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Re: New Wheel

Post by beast775 » Aug 17 2010 11:40pm

phatt.
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Re: New Wheel

Post by NorCalTuna » Aug 18 2010 3:10am

I think they're 10 ga stainless with stainless nuts. It was in fact pricey, but they only did a loose lace to check fit and length, so it wasn't tooo bad. I'm very pleased, all things considered, and the packing job was amazing. I don't know if the motor had to be drilled or not to accommodate them- I'll tell you tomorrow when I get it from truing.

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Re: New Wheel

Post by johnrobholmes » Aug 18 2010 7:11am

I do believe the x5 will pass 10 ga spokes stock. REdiculous for a bicycle hub.

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Re: New Wheel

Post by Ypedal » Aug 18 2010 7:17am

nope.. gotta drill for 10g...
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Re: New Wheel

Post by johnrobholmes » Aug 18 2010 7:28am

The ones I had here passed them through, spokes sourced from Buchanan. Maybe an odd lot from Xlyte? I remember it now, because I didn't have any 11ga spokes at the time.

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Re: New Wheel

Post by Ypedal » Aug 18 2010 7:33am

totally possible.. clyte wins the non-consistency award !... :lol:
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Re: New Wheel

Post by John in CR » Aug 18 2010 7:52am

NorCalTuna,

Congratulations on mounting a real wheel on your X5. No pinch flats or broken spokes for you. I cringe to think about how much you paid just to get the rim and mount it. With shipping I have little doubt that it cost you as much as my motor (very comparable to the X5303) with controller, similar rim and spokes, DC/DC converter, with shipping (slow boat from China) and taxes, as well as the tire, tube, mounting and truing that I got locally. Some things cost just too much stateside.

What are you doing about a controller for that bad boy? How much total load? Any hills on your routes?

John

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Re: New Wheel

Post by NorCalTuna » Aug 18 2010 8:33am

John, thanks- I'm stoked on the tire setup. When I built my first race car when I was a teen my builder- Dick Shine, in Walpole, Mass. told me that you build a race car from the tire up and the tire and the rules dictated everything from there. The Gazelle is an amazingly nice tire- not a toy or flimsy whatsoever. I wish they did a 18x2.5 though!

The rim is off ebay from classicscooterparts. The pair was about 70 bucks plus shipping from the east bay of ca... I just wanted to be first! They're pretty heavy, I must say. The next build might have Excels. The labor has been thankfully been done non gratis locally, so I can't comment on that. Buchanan charged me a little over 120 I think with shipping. The tires are cheaper than good bike tires!!! ie 20 bucks! The front is getting a sweet triple cross at the LBS, where I have a buddy from way back.

I'm picking it up tomorrow and bringing the whole shebang, with the swingarm to the fabricator to have, uhh, more work done.

It's getting a 100v 100a lyen controller that will be progressively more aggressively tuned- on a dyno- until I find the saturation point (I predict rapidly diminishing returns above apx. 170 phase amps) of the x5 but hopefully, given time with the dj250i's huge fans, not the thermal limits. 9" / 8" brakes, Specialized FSR Big Hit, Manitou dual crown and OH YAH, 24s turnigy lipoly!

There are few hills on my commute- none- but lots nearby so yah PWM heating is prime concern in that condition, because I'll wanna ride my sweet bike there. Maybe even go over some sweet jumps.

UMMM, oh yah, since I guess this just became my build thread? anybody know how to get the covers off that x5? Really only the wire side- I want to put some holes in it for cooling, and some ducted fans and a thermocouple.

don't touch that (dial)

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Re: New Wheel

Post by John in CR » Aug 18 2010 9:11am

It's gonna be a great build, and you're already aware of the issues so that's good. With flat roads you're going to have a real screamer. If you're serious about going for air with that kind of weight in the wheel you may need to address axle and bearing issues in the long run. I see 2 bikes in your future eventually. This one as your extreme street cruiser and a lightweight but powerful non-hub rig for extreme off road. :mrgreen:

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Re: New Wheel

Post by FMB42 » Aug 18 2010 9:17am

Now that's a real wheel.

Quote:
"It's a repro of what would be found on a honda c90 or early yamaha dirt bike".

Ya, it reminds me of the wheels on my 1966 Yamaha YG-1T Trailmaster 80.

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Re: New Ride (thread redux!)

Post by NorCalTuna » Aug 18 2010 8:45pm

Here's some build pics for y'all! Strap on ya lobster bibs....

here's the mighty 24 fet lyen edition 4110 controller on the axiom rack:
photo 1.JPG
The whole bike as it sits half disassembled (no swing arm, no wheels no batt cage...)
photo 3-1.JPG
And I'm GUESSING this is how it's mounted, the awesome gatorbrake hydros. PS, how frikkin long is that rear hose, huh guys? I have a 9" rotor on the way so I'm guessing this isn't the last I'll see of this part.
photo 5.JPG

The Battery Holder. 4 5ah 6s turnigy vertically on each side for about 1kwh, ok to start. It has accommodations for lvc bms, cell logs, another pair of bricks per side (15ah pack I can't afford any idea why?) for the future as well as rigid covers not shown. Also not shown is the rear aluminum strap, like the front one, that holds the whole shebang together. It's made of high impact poly.
photo 4.JPG
Here's a pic of me standing on one without the benefit of the outside cover-
photo-17.JPG

and finally: a singed, severed head screwed onto the rear rack. My dog showed up with it one day while I happened to be holding a screw and driver.
photo 2-2.JPG
So thats fun to look at and all but here's the nitty gritty: Estimated weights, in order.

The chassis, forks, front brake, controller, shock, rack- the first pic- weigh 27 lbs
the motor- x5303-weighs 25 lbs
Batteries (14), Rack (4) and bms/wiring weigh 20 lbs
The tires, tubes and strips weigh 13 lbs
The wheels and spokes about 9 lbs
The modded swingarm will weigh about 5 lbs
The rear brakes and rotors, rear deraileur (no front) and chain weigh 3 lbs

Total Static Weight, Estimated: 102 lbs
Total Rotating Weight, Estimated: 48 lbs

I'm pretty sure thats an overestimate, but it's pretty grim. There's a lot of rotating mass there! With more spendy wheels, like Excels, and way lighter tires (or shaved gazelles), it'd be around 93 lbs. but that's certainly piggy (i'm 155 with helmet and gear) for a motorsports oriented bike. There is also a small bike pump and the scorched, chewed head in there- thats prolly 1.5. I'm also toying with the idea of cutting the pannier down a bit- for cosmetics (think supermotard) but that tubing doesn't weigh much. The seat is a heavy loaf, I have a carbon kevlar one but it's not as comfy. I'll likely trim 1-2 lbs off the cranks or make new ones, as well.

I think for the level of strength and roadworthyness this bike will have the weight isn't that bad for a streetbike.

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Re: New Ride (thread redux!)

Post by John in CR » Aug 19 2010 12:27am

Dude,

The rotating weight excludes the stator which doesn't turn and is likely to to half or more of the total weight of the motor and wheel combined, so your number must be high.

With that strong looking rack I thought you were going to put the batts there too until a later pic...good decision no , though that rack behind the seat is overkill for a controller. I have a 24fet of 4110's on the way from Lyen, so I'm interested in seeing what u come up with for placement.

...any potential for a CR vacation with bike for some chases through the mountains here?...no rain in 2 days so I have a feeling dry season is a few months early just like last year. Keep in mind that this fat bastard won't be going for any air, but I can hold a camera with the best of them, so I'll be the cameraman for your off road heroics, and you be the cameraman for the 1/4 mile and top speed runs. :mrgreen: Since Doc accepts GPS as a certified device, I don't know how long I can wait, because I want to post a respectable number before one of the speed freaks like LFP posts 100mph or more on a bike-like frame. I'm not so worried about Doc and others from the Great White North, since they have weird resonance issues to sort out. I may be an expat, but I still bleed red white and blue, so it's time to take the title back. Plus, don't forget that anything done here is also a "street legal" record, so bikes like Doc's are invalid entries from the get-go. :twisted:

John

NorCalTuna   1 W

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Re: New Ride (thread redux!)

Post by NorCalTuna » Aug 19 2010 4:47pm

Yes, all the copper and cast aluminum sure add up. So yah, I'll revise that to 40 lbs rotating... : ^)

The rack does appear to be overkill until you learn 2 things: the size of the 24 fet case and how close I live to a grocery store. I go at least once a day, returning with one to two bags and frequently a sack of charcoal, which goes in a milk crate I strap to the rack. I love grilling! On NMB1 I achieved this with a careful balancing act(and that rack on another bike); on this bike I'll do that with soma filmore hemp panniers for groceries and school (i also hate backpacks, so tossing my shit in a pannier and then just pulling what I need out when I get there is very attractive!).

Further, the 24 fet controller is not a baby piece. I didn't expect it's size, despite knowledge of it's dims. It's scale seems to escape photographs: It's so brawny and big, I actually had to widen that pannier rack. It's sharp too, I wouldn't want it near my soft fleshies (rule one building bikes: don't make it more dangerous than it has to be. Have you seen those impailers that OCC is turning out lately? I'd fire the first guy who suggested my insurance cover such a thing) in the event of crash. Putting it on the frame would be either vulnerable or force me to put batts on the rack. That sucks, now no groceries and the batteries are literally 4 times denser so the balance goes to hell. So yah, the overkill rack lives on. It'll look a little less naked when the bike gets fleshed out more with bags and fenders and such. oh yah and wheels and a swingarm....

It could find it's way onto the top of the top tube now that I think about it, above the batteries, but thats visually lots going on there. I'm planning to make a simple cordura bag for the battery box, so it just looks like a frame bag. For now it's staying there, where the pannier bags can hide it and the motor.

I'd love to come to CR sometime. I personally don't mind a canadian holding the ebike speed record because i'm part canuck!I'm really not sure about jumping it on those bearings, I have to admit.

That said, hick talkin and nostalgia don't really hold water. If you're talking title, there's gotta be some boundaries. Now, it's even simpler than the race rules nobody can agree on: Who can go the fastest on a frame the builder intended to be powered solely by the rider.


thanks for the feedback guys!

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Re: New Ride (thread redux!)

Post by John in CR » Aug 19 2010 7:09pm

Yeah, sorry some kind of weird brain cramp on my end. I get it now, your rack is for cargo not just the controller. It's coming together nicely. You going to be riding this weekend?

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Re: New Ride (thread redux!)

Post by NorCalTuna » Aug 19 2010 10:09pm

Naww, this weekends f'ed cuz the guy who does my fab works out of Infinion which is hosting IRL this weekend, but thats ok because I actually have real work to do! So, no swingarm rebuild yet The rear wheel is now apparently now trued and ready for the tire, etc. which I'll drop off tomorrow. The front wheel is still floating out there, and i have no safe charger, or bms so i'm definitely in a holding pattern.

thanks for the support-

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Re: New Ride (thread redux!)

Post by GGoodrum » Aug 21 2010 9:26am

I love this build. :) I missed your other thread, so what frame is this? That wheel is amazing. This is going to be a real screamer, for sure. :mrgreen:

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Re: New Ride (thread redux!)

Post by NorCalTuna » Aug 21 2010 11:56pm

The bike is a Specialized big hit FSR that has manitou dual crown sliders and a really nice shock. I'm trying to get a lot of bases covered- I'm not comfortable on superbikes (i'll start a thread in the everything else forum for my post-neck injury gas streetbike) so I like small, speedy useful bikes- yam fz6/1, Suzi DR (i had a modded 250s for a while that I got for free because the customer went to jail. 22hp and 303 lbs of JOY), but find the gs650 and klr too heavy and ponderous. So, that's the cosmetics, rack, tires and use sort of intent- light off road (the crystalyte bearings scare me- the sweet jumps comment was a joke) and my trips around town. It's getting a motard style light and instead of number plates, panniers.

So, weekend update. I got my work done (I build guitar amps. They sing / scream!) so i'm all psyched up for some bike shit. I'm going to attach the battery box and fashion up the battery bag tonight, and earlier today I talked to the fabricator, who is bringing me a machined wax template for the end clamps, so i'll probably have the swingarm back this time next week. We're going to lengthen the swingarm 3" for some stability, and it'll be adjustable through insert spacers.

I forgot to get spoke washers for my front wheel so I'm off to lowes tomorrow to find some aluminum rivet washers. That should done next week or week after.

ummm, that may be all for now. Thanks for watching!

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