Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

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jlustig83   10 W

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Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by jlustig83 » Nov 25 2010 6:54pm

I just got giant trance x4 and im going to make it into an ebike over the winter. I want to keep it as light as possible so i can manuver it on trails well and ramp it.
Im looking into buying a hub motor that is pretty reliable. From what ive read on the other posts around here is that the 9c is one of the best motors. I plan on
runing 44volts with four 6s 6ah nano turnigys at hobby king. So that would be 12ah wired up corectly. Ive never had any lipos but i have had a123s for my rc car
so i already have a charger to charge lipos. The charger i have is a hyperion duo2. I was also thinking about an rc setup but it seems more complicated with a FS
bike. I cant make up my mind yet. Any suggestions???
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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by MadRhino » Nov 25 2010 8:40pm

Nice bike, and very light frame. I was also preoccupied with the weight, at first. Then, I realized that performance and range are directly weight dependant: If you want power and range, you will be putting a lot of weight, and you lite XC will likely end up around 80 pounds when you are satisfied with the result.

Doing a RC setup on your bike is definitely lighter, but will have many other turn-off: Noize and mechanical hardware are the worst. A direct drive hub motor is heavy, but it makes it simple, to build and to attain fair performance, with silence and reliability. Think of it, not as a very heavy bicycle, but as a very light motorcycle without the noize and the gas.

If you ride in mountain trails, chose a motor with high count winding for torque and efficiency, and feed it with higher voltage to compensate for its lack of speed. If you're not into steep climbs, your 48v lipo setup will be ok with a faster motor, but you will want to start at 72v with a slower one. Remember that fast motors don't like to climb, they will transform your power into a lot of heat when running slow and climbing.
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motomech   1 GW

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by motomech » Nov 25 2010 9:29pm

For a clean, simple and fast conversion, you might want to look at my build thread, "The Dremel Tool Special"(pg. 3, the E-bike photo section).
I went against the grain and mounted a Mini geared motor in Alloy forks and have had zero problems.
Not a powerful hillclimber(ocassionally, I have to go to the second chain ring), but niether the motor or the controller gets very warm.


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'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 25 2010 9:41pm

Dremel Tool Special, its a geared front-wheel hub-motor:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=21377

Heres the Hightekbikes kit he used:
http://www.hightekbikes.com/geared-hub-motor-kits.html

Image

jlustig83   10 W

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by jlustig83 » Nov 25 2010 10:52pm

Wow thats a pretty nice build you have there spinningmagnets. Its great that you kept it under 50lbs.
My bike is about 30lbs so i should be able to keep it under 50lbs as well. Do you know how much a 9c
weighs? Can a hub motor or the 9c be laced into the rim thats already on my bike? I know the lipos
that im going to use are prolly only a couple pounds. I only weigh about 145lbs and im in pretty good
shape so climbing hills shouldnt be that bad. This is my first build so im a noob, lol. Thanks for your
replies guys.

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by neptronix » Nov 26 2010 12:34am

Beware those aluminum rear dropouts if you chose to send a lot of torque through them ( IE anything over 250w )

I had a Giant Rincon and it had the same style dropouts..... i had to get rid of it because the curved rear dropouts made making a steel torque plate impossible ( unless i had a shop with a laser cutter, which i don't. )

See this thread:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... ant+rincon
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biohazardman   100 kW

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by biohazardman » Nov 26 2010 1:11am

Built up a Trance3 awhile back now over 3K on it and it's been a great commuter and not to bad for some trails. I used the BMC 600 V2 and 52V of A123. It does near 35MPH top and just over 10 miles per 2p16s pack at 20mph. The bike weighs in at a bit over 50lbs 55lbs with an extra pack. In the middle of doing an upgrade to the wiring and putting on a V3 clutch so I can be a bit more confident on 60V at the moment. More info and vids of some rides in the links below

Image
Last edited by biohazardman on Dec 04 2011 1:22am, edited 1 time in total.
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by dogman dan » Nov 26 2010 7:25am

Well, it's a dilemma. I gar-un-dog-tee you that if you put a 9c 2807 on the rear hub of that thing and run it on 42v you will be very very dissapointed if your trail is very steep. Here we have trail where some of it is not steep, and you can rollercoaster down it using momentum on the dips and have a great time using a commuters motor. But you take that same 48v rig on the fun part, and now you bog down, and melt the motor trying to climb 20% for half a mile or more. And in my climate, the gearmotors just get too hot too fast 9 months of the year. Love em in winter though!

But right now, chances are the gearmotors like pumas and BMC's are your best bet unless you live near mexico like I do.

72v on the 9c 2807 is an option, but the trouble with that is you don't get a lot of fine controll over your throttle at low speeds. Not ideal for a tricky trail ride. But again, it depends on your trail. Maybe it's a DH trail designed for 40 mph speeds? Mabye its a route through rolling hills like the easy part of my trails? If you ride a pedal bike down your trail at 25 mph, then a 72v 9c motor would work Ok.

There is the option of a slow wind clyte, like a 5305 or 5306. But for trickier trails, that's a pretty heavy rear wheel. I'd prefer a gearmotor that weighed 10 pounds less for trail riding. The clytes work better on smoother roads for sure.

I have loved my 9 continent rear hub trail bike. But I got lucky and scored a 2810 motor before they dissapeared from the market. Perfect motor for a trail bike at 48v. But you cant buy one anymore.

Yeah, the dropouts are a problem. some designs are easy to put a flat steel plate on, and others are a bear. You may need to build a torque plate with some bends in it.

Lipo for the battery of course, as you said.

jlustig83   10 W

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by jlustig83 » Nov 26 2010 8:13am

I live in illinios and I would be riding on flat roads most the time. I dont plan on trail
riding to much. I weigh about 145lbs so maby the 9c 9x7 would work for me. I might
bump it up to 72v later on which i will probably do. Which motor does ebikekit have,
the 9x7?

chroot   100 kW

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by chroot » Nov 26 2010 12:52pm

Just get 9x7 winding 9c motor hub, make sure get Nord-lock washer locker and they rocks!!!!


http://www.nord-lock.com, I got couple of these and replaced my 9c motor's lock washer and surprised these nord-lock kickass far better than regular lock washer from ebikekit.

It should help secure your dropout on the aluminium frame and my frame is full aluminium no problem running 9x7 winding 9c motor hub and runs fast speeding. I am completely satisfied with the nord-lock washer.
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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by docnjoj » Nov 27 2010 10:26am

jlustig83 wrote:I live in illinios and I would be riding on flat roads most the time. I dont plan on trail
riding to much. I weigh about 145lbs so maby the 9c 9x7 would work for me. I might
bump it up to 72v later on which i will probably do. Which motor does ebikekit have,
the 9x7?
Yes.
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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by wineboyrider » Nov 28 2010 9:17pm

Nope. Better try a bmc ! +1
8) 8)
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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by jlustig83 » Nov 28 2010 9:34pm

What does the 9c weigh compared to the bmc and which one is more reliable?

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tycreek   100 W

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by tycreek » Nov 28 2010 11:26pm

Nice bike!
BMC is certainly several lb lighter (seems I remember 30%) but I would expect the DD of the 9C to be more durable. They are both heavy compared to the stock wheel. I've not had any issues with my BMC motors yet but I don't let my tires catch much air under power. Every additional lb in the wheel causes the suspension to loose some ability to respond (noticeable on rough surfaces).
BMC V3, on: Giant Transend commuter, Giant Trance and Giant Anthem X

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by wineboyrider » Nov 29 2010 12:12am

What does the 9c weigh compared to the bmc and which one is more reliable?
Yes, the 9c weighs more, but the bmc is lighter and has more torque if you get the right one. I have used the 9c DD 2807 (ebikekit) and love it as a daily driver, but also have a mini-motor (bafang equivalent) and can say that the bmc is probably a stronger motor! I don't know from experience, but I am in the process of ordering a high speed version! :wink: :mrgreen:
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by jlustig83 » Dec 11 2010 3:13pm

On the ebikekit site it says PLEASE NOTE: There is 16mm of space for the caliper between
the disk rotor and the flat side cover of the E-BikeKit REAR direct-drive motor. Please be
sure to check your caliper before ordering if you intend to use a disc brake with your
E-BikeKit rear direct-drive hub motor.

I checked my space and its like 11/16 inch which is like 17.4625mm. Thats a difference of
like 0.060inch or less. Thats kind of frustrating cause i was going to order the 9c kit today
until i saw this. I could buy there caliper but my breaks are hydrolic.

Has any one here had this problem. Maby my caliper will fit. Thanks for all the replies so far
guys

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by Drunkskunk » Dec 11 2010 4:26pm

Depending on the caliper, you could possably shave 2mm off of it. I had to do similar for a BB7, though its easier to shave a non hydro.

You're better off grabbing one of their brakes, though. Squishies doesn't offer any advantage for a setup like this.
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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by MadRhino » Dec 11 2010 4:29pm

Check the Avid Code brake calipers, if my memory is good, you should have good clearance with those. Or else, if your dropout width is wide enougn, you can add washers to space the disc from the mount.
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jlustig83   10 W

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by jlustig83 » Dec 15 2010 7:31pm

I just bought the 9c kit from ebikekit. Thats great everything there is 20% off right now.
I saved almost $80 on the kit :) I cant wait for it to get here so i can get the project going.
Before i order the batteries im gonna get it put together right. im gonna post pics of my
progress as i go. I was looking around at watt meters and cant figure out which one to buy
cause i dont know any thing about them. Which kind of watt meter would you guys suggest?
Thanks again for the replies

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by wineboyrider » Dec 15 2010 8:55pm

Which kind of watt meter would you guys suggest?
Cycle Analyst is by far the best! But, a turnigy watt meter from Hobby King would be a good choice if you want to monitor your battery for cheap. The Cycle Analyst is worth every penny if you are serious about the ebike thing it has so many features http://ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml ,especially if you want to run higher voltages and low voltage cutoff for lipo packs etc. I have both and the CA is da bomb.!!!
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by jlustig83 » Dec 23 2010 4:41pm

chroot wrote:Just get 9x7 winding 9c motor hub, make sure get Nord-lock washer locker and they rocks!!!!


http://www.nord-lock.com, I got couple of these and replaced my 9c motor's lock washer and surprised these nord-lock kickass far better than regular lock washer from ebikekit.

It should help secure your dropout on the aluminium frame and my frame is full aluminium no problem running 9x7 winding 9c motor hub and runs fast speeding. I am completely satisfied with the nord-lock washer.
How do i buy those washers and what size do i get? Do i need a torque arm if i have these washers?

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Re: Just bought a giant trance x4. Which motor to use???

Post by MadRhino » Dec 23 2010 5:13pm

Unless you run at very low power, you need a torque arm with any aluminum frame. If you run a powerfull setup, not only do you need a torque arm, you need strong torque arm(s). I use one each side, and had them made in high carbon steel, after the first one (stainless steel) that I installed started to strip.

Nord lock washers are made to keep the axle nut from getting loose, but even if they are the best at it (and I use them), they can't make your aluminum dropouts any stronger. You will have a hard time to find Nord Locks locally anyway, and likely you will have to buy them on their website. Use Locktite, locknuts, other type of lockwashers... in the meantime, and check the nut tension regularly.
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