Manufacturers and dealers to avoid

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by mrdarklight » Jul 27 2010 4:25pm

The problems I had with him were 1) the connectors he uses in his kits are substandard and can come loose and short out, which is what happened to me, and 2) he really cannot explain to you how the kit is wired. He knows where the connectors are supposed to connect, but in my case, I had a connector on a yellow and a brown wire, and he could not tell me how it was supposed to be wired. In the end he started making up stories and posted on his forum that I had fried the controller by hooking it up wrong, which is just an outright falsehood. The controller isn't even fried, just one of the connectors melted. VERY bad experience with this guy.

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Lessss » Jul 27 2010 4:51pm

the connectors he uses in his kits are substandard and can come loose and short out
Sounds more like a problem with the manufacturer.
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by mrdarklight » Jul 27 2010 5:01pm

I don't know whether he or the manufacturer uses those connectors, but he assembled the kit and sold it to me, so he's the responsible party.

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by turoczi » Jul 28 2010 2:06pm

I read this guys thread before they deleted it on the amped forum. I think he didn't know how to explain himself and that's what caused him to explode. I have had nothing but excellent service from AmpedBikes for close to 4 years now.

He sent them a nasty letter about how he was on some campaign how he was going to slam them on other forums. There's always one in the woodpile.

I do have a biased opinion as I have ordered multiple kits and they always give me a break as I build and sell to friends and neighbors.

In My Humble opinion they make the best kits on the market. They sell waay below what they should charge and I think its great that they make kits that are affordable to everyone.

I have added a BMC to my lineup but it was over priced in my opinion and I had to send it back once as the first one did not work.

But I stand Behind AmpedBikes 100%

I am sure if they gave you bad customer service it was because of that nasty email you sent them. I wouldn't have answered you either.

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by FeralDog » Jul 28 2010 3:53pm

I do have a biased opinion as I have ordered multiple kits and they always give me a break as I build and sell to friends and neighbors.
I was an Amped customer. I bought a Front DD kit last year ( hub, 36V SLA, throttle/levers, bags & rack--about $425+ USD plus) and had major problems with the companies incorrect assembly instructions, and the subsequent bad/odd "attitude" given off by the companies' owner in response to my inquires. I got a moderate run-around on customer service from the Amped company owner that near resulted in a me sending the whole unit back. I will not be doing business with them again because the drama is not worth the hassle.

I have not gotten any "price break" from AmpedBikes, my opinions are not biased on what praising AmpedBikes nets me in future rewards $$$$.
I have never posted on AmpedBikes Company Forum. I do not come here from there to do "damage control" for Amped.

I also saw the false and misleading accusations on the AmpedBikes Company Forum that were made by the Amped Adm. towards the thread poster (accusing over-volting,alleging videos, etc). Those accusations were wild and unsubstantiated, and were a blatant personal attack. The issues' crux was a customer who needed assistance with his long-long unanswered wiring problem. Very unprofessional tactic by Amped, very unprofessional. I see the owner of Amped never even bothered to post an answer to the OP's question of "what was the correct wiring" for the customers bike. I see that Amped took it upon themselves to delete the entire thread, a prudent decision seeing as how deep Amped was getting into another dust-up with a customer.

I do not know what issues and dust-ups Amped has had in the past with other electric bike competitors. But their "damage control" in this instance is rubbing up against my prior (unsatisfactory ) experience with them in customer service.
I agree that the thread poster seemed pretty over-the-top frustrated with not getting the answer he was looking for. But hey, he was posting the question for over a year without Amped giving him any answer! I have seen the same evasive response with my purchase from Amped.

In My Humble Opinion, Amped does over-hype their product. They are NOT, as Amped claims >>> quote "flawless and will last you a lifetime"
After finally solving the disastrous assembly instructions from Amped; I have ridden the electric-bike kit for several months now. There is room for a bit of improvement in their "cheap" electrical connectors. If they would be a bit more lenient with allowing some re-retrofitting of better connectors while retaining a warranty, it would be a good move. (Their warranty does seem a bit arbitrary.)
Their hub has been robust for me, the SLA batteries in the kit were good, the quality of the battery bag was exceptional. The kit I received did need me to hand-make U washers to fit the Amped axle as it was knawing into my drop-outs, the kit should offer some type of spacer/clip/washer to help the axle fit into the front forks better (the existing indexed washer is a problem to remove because the electrical connection is in the way). My wheel was oddly dished, a LBS helped me with that, and I still check the spokes for tight and true regularly. The hype about the miles-per-charge and rapid assembly time was overblown and unrealistic.
My suggestion for AmpedBikes is to focus more on the customer service, quit blaming any product problems on some competitors conspiracies. The owners seem to have over-believed their own hype so much it is making them act like spoiled rock-stars, and their Forum Fans like teenage worshipers.
Ampeds personal blog about how the owner miraculously survived a hi-speed wrecking of his Mercedes while using a cell phone North of Hollywood is interesting, but does little to solve customer problems with the electric bike product he makes. Amped need to focus on its products, not on its deeds and the TV spotlight on its owner.

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by mrdarklight » Jul 28 2010 10:34pm

turoczi wrote:I am sure if they gave you bad customer service it was because of that nasty email you sent them. I wouldn't have answered you either.
I only sent him a nastygram after trying for two weeks to get him to help me with fixing my problem, via e-mail, and then he started lying on his forum about me and my problem. And this was after my post had been on his forum for over a year asking the same questions. I mean really, how long am I supposed to wait for him to help me?

The first time he lied, he said I had wired it wrong (which is apparently what he says a lot of the time when his kits fail) and then he flat-out lied and said I had posted a YouTube video where I admitted to overvolting the bike. It was a flat-out lie. I've never posted a youtube video of any bike.

I know he has his fans, and if you have had good experiences with him then I'm not going to contest that. I had good experiences with him too, until I had this problem. It just appears to me that he wasn't prepared to support my kit with anything but very simple, ordinary problems. The fact that I needed to know where a wire went seemed to throw him for a curve that he was not expecting. But he earns any bad press he gets when he starts lying to cover up for his shortcomings. I gave him far, far more time and effort to help me than he deserved.

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by mwkeefer » Jul 29 2010 2:51am

MrDarkLight,

Very well put and not inflamatory... I must say, in your situation the gloves would have come off if they had accused me of overvolting (if I hadn't anyway)... Deflect, Deny, Defuse is the old motto the behaviour is bringing to mind...

I have recently received a PM from someone who informed me that Amped considers replacing their connectors to be "Modification" which would invaidate your warranty?

While granted some don't below changing their wiring, I for one would never use stock molex connectors or low quality automotive bullets on any build I do... I can also tell you the 4 or 5 US based vendors I purchase stock from when needed would never in a million years consider a customer putting Gold 4mm plugs or Anderson Power Poles or waterproof interconnects for throttle or anything like that... Not if their kit failed (meaning controller, motor, etc)... they would just ship replacement parts (not offer to sell).

Even though I have been doing business with these vendors a long time so they know me, and that I am honest and wouldn't try to push a "Warranty" replacement for a mistake I caused... I know for a fact, in you particular situation whatever connector was broken (I think it was throttle to controller right?) the vendors I use would have just sent you replacements for whatever you needed and requested you return the damaged parts so they could evaluate what happened and look at if it's preventable in the future.

IMHO - A good vendor wants to know what goes wrong with their product, so they can take steps to prevent it from happening again... proactively. And yes, a good vendor does test and properly document their products... but lets be fair - all the testing in the world, even on a bike by the vendor may not reveal a specific set of circumstances under which a failure could occour.

Personally if I sell you a product (I'm not a vendor, dealer, etc.. stuff I sell is left over or unused bits from builds I do for clients) I don't ship it before testing it's function, ensuring everything is wired right, no bent pins (which could cause shorts) and in many cases... I will upgrade stock wirning before shipping if the customer requests it and I have the specific connector types or they can wait long enough for me to get them. I do this because partly it's how I want to be treated as a customer and partly becuase I value my personal and professional reputation and I will not comprimise that nor a customers experience or safety!

There are many vendors here who operate (or seem to in my experience, and yes I am a sneak... when I place a first few orders from newer vendors here on ES... I do so via proxy, just in case a vendor may send me a Cream of the Crop unit to ensure my experience is good while providing so/so equipment to the rest of the ES community) in the same exact way - and other larger vendors who will always take the customers word on cause of issue and ship replacements - they have the stock on hand and finiancial capitol to do this... perhaps I will do this one day but for now I prefer refining the synergy or cohesive nature of ebikes, finding the missing links (iPhone charger connector) and that requires testing samples, workign with the electronics and building custom bikes for people... I've reached the point (on a scale of 1-100% - about 40% of what I perceive Recumpence level of skill - far superior to mine mechanically) with tuning and optimization of the electronics, identifying remaining needs.

I'm babbling and I appologize... but I have one more item to address, it's been burnign me up of late and relates to this vendor (well a specific member of the vendors team) and their interaction with other vendors:

I will close here and post back again with the secondary issue - which doesn't really effect customers directly but it just goes to collaborate many of the comments about the 3 d's.

-Mike
PS: I have spoken at length many times with Lysa/Lisa at Amped Bikes and she seems very knowledgeable (but pretends to be a little less I think, proabably as to not make novices feel intimidated) and she has been a very plesant and helpful person and I enjoyed speaking with her greatly - I am sure someone had a bad experience but I tell ya, I was myself... no anger, prejudice or accusation just matter of fact and plesant and she really was a Jewel.
Regards,
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Beavinator » Aug 30 2010 1:32pm

Well he's not really a manufacturer but a person. I am totally new to the e-bike scene and most people I have had contact with have been super helpful in answering any questions I have had. One person I have nothing good to say about is that Doctor Bass guy. I guess he is so full of himself and thinks he is so much smarter than me that he can't be bothered with a newbie. He might be smart but his bikes have no effort put into the quality of workmanship department and he seems to really like the duct tape. Thankfully most other people on here have really helped me learn a lot of info in a small amount of time so I thank them.

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by TylerDurden » Aug 30 2010 1:57pm

Beavinator wrote:Well he's not really a manufacturer but a person. I am totally new to the e-bike scene and most people I have had contact with have been super helpful in answering any questions I have had. One person I have nothing good to say about is that Doctor Bass guy. I guess he is so full of himself and thinks he is so much smarter than me that he can't be bothered with a newbie. He might be smart but his bikes have no effort put into the quality of workmanship department and he seems to really like the duct tape. Thankfully most other people on here have really helped me learn a lot of info in a small amount of time so I thank them.
NooBs will find even the most experienced members are willing to help, if questions are first posed to the group. They will step-in when needed; i.e. when less experienced members are unable to adequately provide answers.

NooBs should not feel bashful to ask in public. We all started at the same place.
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by El_Steak » Aug 30 2010 2:51pm

Beavinator wrote:Well he's not really a manufacturer but a person. I am totally new to the e-bike scene and most people I have had contact with have been super helpful in answering any questions I have had. One person I have nothing good to say about is that Doctor Bass guy. I guess he is so full of himself and thinks he is so much smarter than me that he can't be bothered with a newbie. He might be smart but his bikes have no effort put into the quality of workmanship department and he seems to really like the duct tape. Thankfully most other people on here have really helped me learn a lot of info in a small amount of time so I thank them.
Yeah, he's not a manufacturer and hasn't sold you a product. Why do you think you are entitled to free unlimited support from him?

Everytime I asked Doctorbass questions he promptly answered. Before I asked a question though, I made sure to educate myself by searching the forum for the answer. 95% of the time somebody else already asked that same question.

If your question is of general interest (most of the time), make sure to ask it in "public" and then if you get no answer, you can PM a "guru" and ask them if they can give their answer in the public thread you have created. This way everybody can benefit from the information.
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by John in CR » Aug 30 2010 3:27pm

I'm sure that Doc Bass will be thankful that the Beav is steering clear.

Beaver, being critical of how a bike looks that's not for sale is inappropriate and rude. Those of us who use duct tape know perfectly well that it's not attractive, but we take advantage of the many benefits duct tape has as a material and are secure enough not to care what our bikes look like. Plus there's a practical aspect of not having a bike posers would be comfortable with, and that is the likelihood that our bike being stolen is much lower. No, I'm not calling everyone with a nice looking bike a poser. :mrgreen:

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by beast775 » Aug 30 2010 3:38pm

it takes a while to find an answer but if you really look its here.i have asked the elite questions before and if they dont answer then that means i need to research.and after i find out more i think why did i ask that :lol: .
electrics are frustrating for noobs and EE.but there ow so fun.dr bass is of a different language also.plus he has a busy life i imagine.i like and use gorilla tape.
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Beavinator » Aug 31 2010 10:03am

Thanks for the tip John. From now on instead of putting a lock on my bike ill just throw some duct tape on it. In my opinion and most normal people's just because your bike doesn't look like a piece of shit covered in duct tape I wouldnt say that you are a poser. Id say that the guy flying by at 60 mph with parts flying off his bike is more of a poser!

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Ypedal » Aug 31 2010 10:20am

If you can build a bike that will do 60 mph... i think you done pretty good... duct tape or not. :lol:
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Beavinator » Aug 31 2010 12:19pm

And for the record I asked doc the questions before I even knew of this site. I just saw his videos on youtube.

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by nicobie » Aug 31 2010 1:16pm

I think mr. beaver deserves the title, "A$$hole of the month". I hope he sticks around, imagine all the help he will get from now on.

The good doctor has helped this forum as much as, if not more, than anyone else. I was one of those who donated a couple of bucks for his battery analyzer. He never asked for the money, somebody started a thread and we just sent what we wanted. I couldn't care less that he never did test many batteries, the rest that he has contributed was well worth every penny I sent.

I can't wait to see what AJ has to say about this. We all know how he feels about duct tape, so I'm sure he will be on the beavs side. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Gordo » Sep 01 2010 10:49pm

It is often a good idea to read a few 1000 post when you join a new forum. Most of the basic answers a newbee needs, have been posted many times before. Some of the really involved EV people, never post on ES, because they never learned to type and are too involved with hands on projects. It is just too time consuming typing with one finger, while not knowing the keyboard. Often those who demand the most, give the least back to the forums.
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Spacey » Sep 02 2010 6:28am

Beavinator wrote:Thanks for the tip John. From now on instead of putting a lock on my bike ill just throw some duct tape on it. In my opinion and most normal people's just because your bike doesn't look like a piece of shit covered in duct tape I wouldnt say that you are a poser. Id say that the guy flying by at 60 mph with parts flying off his bike is more of a poser!
Well done on the attitude, I'm sure the good people on this forum will help you with open hearts after knowing what a kind soul you are.

P.S Doc Bass rocks
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Beavinator » Sep 02 2010 8:46am

i am building my first e-bike and I thought it might be a good idea to go with hi-power cycles as I am doing a 72V bike. Man these guys are quite useless. I left message after message and no call back. What kind of business operates like that? After that experience I just felt that if I placed an order for 2-3 grand they would probably bill my visa and then who knows when I would get my order. Plus when I talked to the guy the things he was telling me really didnt make a whole lot of sense so I definately would not recommend using them! I went with Justin at e-bikes and had awesome service from a guy who knew what he was talking about.

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Doctorbass » Sep 02 2010 3:08pm

Beavinator , I appreciate your apologise in the PM.
I understand that spending $$$ for a project like that and the need to get project done asap and the need of answers about unknown subject is important for new builders. 95% of the questions i answer can be found here in the E-S forum if people take time to search.. it's a minimum to do.. we all began somewhere hey?

Some new people i know like CHXS and TURBOBASS really impressed my by how they learned fast by reading on this foeum! Some know nothing in electronic and begin here in the E-S and want 5kW ebike and finally succed!!

If you wrote to me first in the youtube pm, it's normal that you did not received any answer since i stoped answering anything on youtube. I preffer to redirect people here, it's more usefull for everyone.

Now.. let's return to the original thread! :wink:

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Spacey » Sep 14 2010 9:07am

BMS Battery.com

http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php?mai ... d7ec4060e7

These guys have sent me two BMS's for a 16 cell battery pack, both are totally useless.

BMS No 1 did not even work from the start, having triple checked the wiring and having the correct instructions from BMSBATTERY.COM it just pulsed on and off constantly about 2 to 3 times a second. On standstill the BMS would get really hot?

The second BMS would not allow the charger to charge the pack even after 9ah of usage from a 12ah pack. Looking inside showed the last Mosfet only connected by one lead and that had been
Soldered in completely the wrong place when compared the other BMS, but at least it let the bike move without juddering.

I have emailed them regarding this and also asked why the product is now 'not available' on their web site even though they still have it in their product line?

Have asked for a replacement even if it's just for one BMS, not happy with losing $90 and it took over 3 weeks to arrive. One to avoid I think. They have not answered my emails.......funny that as they answered fine when I wanted to buy something!
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Lessss » Sep 14 2010 12:16pm

Almost all Chinese BMS's so far have been crap. Use it without BMS but use single chargers to keep pack in balance. I'm still looking for a DIRT CHEAP way to monitor the voltage of each cell directly.
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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by dnmun » Sep 14 2010 12:19pm

from spacey,

>>>>>These guys have sent me two BMS's for a 16 cell battery pack, both are totally useless.

BMS No 1 did not even work from the start, having triple checked the wiring and having the correct instructions from BMSBATTERY.COM it just pulsed on and off constantly about 2 to 3 times a second. On standstill the BMS would get really hot?

The second BMS would not allow the charger to charge the pack even after 9ah of usage from a 12ah pack. Looking inside showed the last Mosfet only connected by one lead and that had been
Soldered in completely the wrong place when compared the other BMS, but at least it let the bike move without juddering. <<<


do you have any pictures of your wiring and the mosfet you said is wrong? can you determine voltages on the control lines from the optos?

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by Beavinator » Sep 16 2010 1:27pm

I am not saying to avoid them but dont be in a hurry!! I ordered a 72 Volt 20Ah battery pack and charger from EV Assemble. I ordered it over a month ago and every time I talk to them it should go out soon. Thet have been telling me that for the last 2 weeks and I am starting to wonder.

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Re: Manufacturers to avoid

Post by rguy56 » Sep 23 2010 12:11pm

Josh Goldberg EVsolutions.net

He owes me over $1500 (Canadian) and all replys are met with excuses. How many years am I expected to give him the benefit of the doubt. Eventually I have an ethical duty to warn others away from his business, and this is that warning.

Bob Rondeau

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