Please read up on Swiss gun laws, ownership and crime before making such anecdotal statements. Or, better yet, actually visit Switzerland and talk to the people.number1cruncher wrote:I think that Switzerland would be a good example of the consequence of promoting(not requiring) high gun ownership rates. Very low crime...If you know your neighbor is packin', you're less likely to rob them...AppleTown wrote:*Edit: Also, I didn't even get into the fallacy of your statement that mandatory gun ownership is for my safety. Please present some evidence that gun ownership increases safety. There is lots of evidence against that concept.wineboyrider wrote: As a libertarian I think it's a great idea to wear a helmet, but I also think it's a great idea to own a gun. So if I proposed a law that required you to own a gun would you be in? It's only for your safety of course.
Swiss gun laws are nothing about individual liberty and all about community and government. The Swiss require gun ownership as part of mandatory military service, not as individual choice. Guns laws are actually very strict in comparison to the American Libertarian dream world: psychiatric evaluations before allowing to buy, clean criminal records are enforced, extensive training run by the government, acquisition permits needed to be had to go gun shopping, restrictions on gun sales between individuals (individuals need to background check to sell), mandatory inspection of gun storage as part of that military service requirements, logging of most ammunition sales, bans on the sale of specific types of ammunition and specific guns (auto, etc...), and the list goes on and on. Its not uncommon to see people carrying guns in public, but those are almost always militia members (often not in uniform) traveling to or from a mandatory military duty. The process of getting something akin to a US open carry is very restrictive. Shooting sports are indeed popular in Switzerland, but they are also very tightly regulated compared to the US.
Also, the anecdotal idea that there's no gun crime is anecdotally belied by actual mass gun murders like the Swiss guy who killed more than a dozen people in the local parliament back in '01. High gun ownership rates didn't stop him any more than high gun ownership rates in US states like Texas don't stop crime.
Your last statement makes no sense to me. Air pollution is one of those cases where its completely obvious that individual acts impinge directly on the health, welfare and essential liberty of other people and that we must act as a group to protect individual rights. In the end, we in the US are our government since we're a democracy. Democracy means that individuals participate in the communal act of running their country.number1cruncher wrote:...And yes I'm a libertarian, so I am against most governement involvement in our lives. I agree that we should all work together, but not at the price of losing individual freedom and liberty. That was what the US was founded upon. The constitution says nothing about the government providing the means to pursue liberty, freedom and happiness. Its all about the INDIVIDUAL right to pursue these things... But alas, we seem to be moving back toward the very concepts that ignited our forefather's passion to separate from England.
I wonder how long until we are forced to wear breathing aparatus to minimize pollutant intake. I'm sure the carbon monoxide we are huffing is quite bad for us...