Bought a new bike! (new member)- update

A

andrey320

1 W
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
54
Location
los angeles
Hello everyone,
My name is Andrey. I just bought a 2006 Izip Cruiser Enlightened. I have not recieved the bike yet, so I cannot comment too much about it. I am very excited to get it! Hopefully everything will go smooth with the transaction. The purchase was made on ebay. Currie lists the bike for $1300, best online deal = $950, I paid $665. I am a little worried because it sounds like a "too good to be true" deal. The seller has a good rating and has sold electric bikes before.
This will be my first electric bike. At the moment, I ride my old-school Schwinn 10 speed to work 2-3 times per week. Planning on riding daily once I get the new bike.
I will update when I get the new bike and put it together.
Any tips for a new owner?
NiMH battery break in procedure?
Thanks.
 
Hi Audrey.

Looking it up online, the ebay price does sound a little low. Perhaps it's used, or stolen?
I'm looking at all-in-one ebikes for my girlfriend. I'll be interested in reading your review!

With the batteries hidden in the frame, and the little hubmotor, it looks very stealth. At 24v and with that tiny, low-leverage motor, I wouldn't expect too much in the way of hill-climbing power. I like the 48lb weight...

Here's hoping the transaction goes well....

http://urbanscooters.com/P/Electric-Bikes/I-Zip-Electric-Bikes/I-Zip-Electric-Bike-Urban-Cruiser.html
http://www.amazon.com/Izip-Urban-Cruiser-Enlightened-Batteries/dp/B000HZHBIC/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt/002-8703534-7270465
http://www.alienscooters.com/component/bikes/izi/izi_iq_seriesurbn_cruiser_enlightened.html
 
Hi xyster,
My name is actually Andrey, not Audrey. I am a dude!
Yeah, the price is low. Could be stolen. Auction says its brand new in box. The seller may work for the manufacturer. The company and the seller are both from the same city - Chatsworth Ca. I paid through Paypal which is connected to my credit card. So I am not worried about loosing my money. But I am worried that I may not actually get what I want.
I also like the way the bike looks. Almost can't tell that its not a normal bike. Very light too.
No hills here, so I should be fine with this amount of power.
What top speed should I expect? (full power + pedaling)
 
Cool looking bike ! 9ah nimh ! sweet. !

I suggest taking it easy on the first ride.. Depending on the state of charge of the batteries ( varies on how long it's been sitting un-used.. nimh self-discharges rather quickly ) ..

If you have a DVM ( Digital Volt Meter ) i'd check the voltage, 24v battery pack should be 20v totally empty.. 26v partially charged and 28-29 right off the charger...

If below 24v plug it in.. if above 26v. go for a ride ! lol

When you plug your charger into the pack.. it will bulk charge pretty quickly, usually 2 hrs or so.. then turn Green.. leave it on green for a few hours to top off the pack..

Try to allow the pack to cool down before you plug it in to charge. Avoid pluging in right away after a long run...

Above all .. Welcome to the group !

and

Have fun ! 8)
 
It's a great looking bike. I think it was profiled on living with ed on hgtv. Performance wise, 24v on a smallish hub motor probably means 15mph top speed... very stealthy though.
 
Thank you for the suggestions and the welcome.
Regarding the top speed, is the bike geared to go much faster than that?
15 mph is great, I average around 10-13mph on my current bike (with many stops). Cruising speeds on flat roads are around 15 mpg. But at like 70 rpm in highest gear it will approach 20 mph.
Will this bike get close to 20 mph with fast pedaling?
Are the top speeds listed by the manufacturer full throttle without pedaling or with?
Thanks.
 
My name is actually Andrey, not Audrey. I am a dude!
Click to expand...

oops! The n/u confusion must be a sign I have vertical dyslexia or something :) Or perhaps a sign this group could use some dudettes too!

Tip: All current battery chemistries including NiMH live longer, happier lives if never fully discharged to the point of no more power. You can expect about 700 charge/discharge cycles before noticeable performance loss.
 
specs from big name companies are usually " Best case scenario "..

The bike will go as fast as you can pedal it.. but the motor is only geared for X amount of speed... at wich point full throttle provides no more.

I'm sure reviews can be found with a google search.. i'll check.
 
Tip: All current battery chemistries including NiMH live longer, happier lives if never fully discharged to the point of no more power. You can expect about 700 charge/discharge cycles before noticeable performance loss.
Click to expand...

Not sure i agree with that statement..

Single cell nimh/nicad can be run totally flat without much harm.. however.. forcing a " Pack " of cells down to Zero is not usually a good idea. You risk cell reversal. Not all cells are created equal and some " self-discharge " faster than others.. resulting in some to hit Zero before others are done... if you continue to use a pack at high-amps in such a situation you can cause a cell to vent... and spew crystals..
 
Ypedal said:
specs from big name companies are usually " Best case scenario "..

The bike will go as fast as you can pedal it.. but the motor is only geared for X amount of speed... at wich point full throttle provides no more.

I'm sure reviews can be found with a google search.. i'll check.
Click to expand...

Does this mean that above the top speed of the motor I will have to pedal as hard as with the motor off?

I looked through many web pages to find reviews on this bike - no luck.
It doesn't matter much now anyway, the bike is bought.

Again, thanks for the tips and the useful info. :D
 
Not sure i agree with that statement..

Single cell nimh/nicad can be run totally flat without much harm.. however.. forcing a " Pack " of cells down to Zero is not usually a good idea. You risk cell reversal.
Click to expand...

I know. I was simplifying things. These long strings of unbalanced Nickel batteries can not be matched perfectly, nor stay matched perfectly even if they began that way, and so cell reversal is a real possibility. I do seem to remember reading somewhere that running single cell nickel batteries down completely does do some harm, as you also alluded to by writing "without much harm".
 
Nimh are at their best when used.. frequently.

Expect to cycle the pack 3 to 5 times before getting peak performance from them.

Try to avoid running the bike to the point that it " Stops " from LVC ( Low Voltage Cutoff).

Nimh/Nicad packs " Ballance " themselves on Trickle Charge... What this means is you can charge them hard ( high amps ) .. until they start to warm up.. at wich point the High-Amp charge should stop and then the charger will provide a lower charge current to top them off.... you can trickle nimh/nicad like this safely without making them vent.

I can't wait to get my dirty hands on some lithium...
 
Nimh/Nicad packs " Ballance " themselves on Trickle Charge...
Click to expand...

Yes, but their wide variance in impedance and capacity still leads some to drain before others when the pack is drained completely.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-32.htm
"Even with modern manufacturing techniques, the cell capacities cannot be accurately predicted, especially with nickel-based cells."

"lithium-based cells are by nature closely matched when they come off the manufacturing line. Tight tolerances are important because all cells in a pack must reach the full-charge and end-of-discharge voltage thresholds at a unified time."
 
thesuperkids.com also lists the bike as having 15mph top speed.

honestly, i don't know of anyone else that has purchased this bike or made comments on the performance. I'm curious as to what actual real world numbers are going to be.

I've got a feeling that you will quickly join our modding ranks soon after you get the bike. As soon as you get a bike, you'll want to "improve" it. It's why we're all here talking about motors, controllers and batteries.
 
johndoh:
The 15 mph speed limit is what the company says for most of its bikes. Some reviews say that they go faster or slower. (not any particular review of a specific bike - just an impression I got from reading several reviews) Also, the local dealer who I went to for a test ride, said that this bike will go 18 mph. He could have been lying though. I really don't want to end up modifying it (well maybe some day...). But for now, I hope I will be happy with what I have.

Can you or someone please answer these questions:
- will I have to pedal as hard with the motor on as with it off above the motors top speed? / Will there be assist at 20mph?
- Are the bikes usually geared to be ridden above the electric motors top speed?
- from real world experience, do the manufacturers overestimate the top speed?

I just want to know whether I will be able to go 20mph (with pedaling)?
 
Can you or someone please answer these questions:
- will I have to pedal as hard with the motor on as with it off above the motors top speed? / Will there be assist at 20mph?
Click to expand...

That's a very good question. And I'm not 100% sure of this answer, or my line of reasoning:
As the motor approaches top speed, it's ability to add any more power drops, until at top speed it can add no more. You have to add all the power to go above it's top speed. The power it takes to go from, say, 19 =>20mph is the same amount it takes to go from 0=>20mph. So if the motor only takes you to 18mph, and your pedaling is taking you to 20mph, turning off the bike makes no difference, you won't have to pedal any harder. In other words, no assist above top speed.
Then again, on the other hand, going downhill is like adding a little more power by way of gravity, which definitely helps you go faster than the motor takes you on the flats....
I don't know....help! Is their a physicist here? :) Or somebody who can pedal faster than their motor's top speed? I lack the reckless disregard for my own life necessary to take my bike to its top motor'd speed of 44mph...

- Are the bikes usually geared to be ridden above the electric motors top speed?
Click to expand...

I used the kit approach. I don't know.

- from real world experience, do the manufacturers overestimate the top speed?
Click to expand...

From my experience with scooters, manufacturers tend to underestimate top speed and overestimate range, I think so that they'll still appeal to parents who might buy them for their kids, and also so as not to appear to be running afoul of the 20mph local small vehicle laws.
My scooter was sold as having an 18mph top speed. On the flats and with a full charge it goes 19.5mph.
 
- will I have to pedal as hard with the motor on as with it off above the motors top speed? / Will there be assist at 20mph?
Click to expand...

I thought about this more. I think you will get assist above your bike's top, real-world speed, but only to the point of the motors top no-load speed (which is the speed your motor and bike would go if there was no wind resistance, pavement resistance, etc). If I'm correct about this, you'll probably have noticeably assist up to around 25-30mph, even when the bike without pedaling will only go 18mph. Can someone with real-world experience pedaling above their bike's top motored speed comment on this?
 
With my brushless motor and controller (a Wilderness Energy), if you go faster than the no-load speed it charges the batteries, and acts as a brake. The no-load speed is about what you get by propping the wheel up in the garage and spinning it wide open. Don't know how yours will work, just passing along what I've found.

That is a very light bike, by the way - 48 lbs/22kg. I think of mine as being pretty light, and it weighs more than that without batteries!
 
andrey320 said:
johndoh:


Can you or someone please answer these questions:
1- will I have to pedal as hard with the motor on as with it off above the motors top speed? / Will there be assist at 20mph?
2- Are the bikes usually geared to be ridden above the electric motors top speed?
3- from real world experience, do the manufacturers overestimate the top speed?

I just want to know whether I will be able to go 20mph (with pedaling)?
Click to expand...

1- It depends, if the motor " freewheels" when you coast.. Just like when you coast down a hill without pedaling and the chain stays put.. I expect the motor to do the same thing...

That said, if it does freewheel, it will not create resistance if you pedal faster than it's no-load speed. Your motor will consume very little power.

2- I do not know.. however.. it's a bicycle, gearing can be changed easily to suit your needs.

3- They present the best numbers they can, it's simple business.. some are extreemely over-rated ( ie: e-bay ) others are spot on.. but with so many variables like rider weight, terrain, etc etc etc.... it's impossible to provide an absolute spec.
 
johndoh:
The 15 mph speed limit is what the company says for most of its bikes. Some reviews say that they go faster or slower. (not any particular review of a specific bike - just an impression I got from reading several reviews) Also, the local dealer who I went to for a test ride, said that this bike will go 18 mph. He could have been lying though. I really don't want to end up modifying it (well maybe some day...). But for now, I hope I will be happy with what I have.

Can you or someone please answer these questions:
- will I have to pedal as hard with the motor on as with it off above the motors top speed? / Will there be assist at 20mph?
- Are the bikes usually geared to be ridden above the electric motors top speed?
- from real world experience, do the manufacturers overestimate the top speed?

I just want to know whether I will be able to go 20mph (with pedaling)?
Click to expand...

Here's my guess
1. Motor on or off (doesn't matter) will be a slight drag above 18mph. You can do 20 mph but the motor won't be any help

2. I've only ridden kit bikes so i don't know how well ebike manufactures have geared the bike/motor combination. bike gearing can vary a lot! My 8 speed gruv in 8th gear was probably meant to support around 18mph. My 24 speed gruv in 24th gear was probably meant to support 23 mph.

3. ebike manufacturers have been for the most part fairly honest regarding top speed and range (unlike e-scooter manufacturers).

I'm guessing you'll ride your bike mostly in the 15 ~ 18 mph range. I think 20 mph will feel like a bit too much effort.
 
Xyster was right the second time. You will get assist past your real wheels on the road top speed. The assist will go down to 0 as you hit the no load speed. After that it depends on wether or not you have a freewheel. If you do then its like just a heavy bike, if you dont then your charging the batteries. This applies to brushed or brushless. Basically a summary of what everybody else said.
Joe
 
Thank you for all the info!
After riding my regular bike yesterday, I realized that even 15 mph is great. I cruise on flats at about 13-14 mph with some effort. So 15 mph with some or no effort will be excellent. I don't know whether my commute time will decrease because of the many lights I have to stop at. And the lights do not change often (designed with cars as #1)

Now that I have an idea of how to charge and keep my battery lasting,
can I get some tips on efficient riding?
I know that I should not start on all motor, but are there other suggestions?
Perhaps not keeping it at full throttle or increasing tire pressure.... (?)
 
Best possible thing you can do is to accelerate smoothly, yanking on the throttle is a real killer for efficiency.
Joe
 
It can take quite a few cycles to break in NiMH batteries is what I hear. You may be dissapointed with your inital range but it should get better. Don't let your batteries go to absolutely no charge but cycling them down most of the way once in a while is healthy.
 
Now that I have an idea of how to charge and keep my battery lasting,
can I get some tips on efficient riding?
I know that I should not start on all motor, but are there other suggestions?
Click to expand...

Tires near the max psi like you said is good to decrease rolling resistance a little. The biggest "resistance" when riding a bicycle by far is the wind. As you probably know, it's the wind resistance that makes it so you have to pedal a whole lot harder just to go a little faster. A couple things can be done to cut the resistance a lot, and increase your range. The best solution is a fairing like these but for an upright bike.
http://www.mueller-hp.com/
But unless your into DIY'ing a fairing, they may be a little too expensive. Wearing more aerodynamic clothes also helps (I can see the extra power it takes on my ammeter when I wear a bulky windbreaker compared to a fleece jacket!). The "tuck" position, though not exactly comfortable, helps a lot too. As does riding with a tailwind.
 
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