Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Lock   10 GW

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Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by Lock » Jun 22 2011 8:45am

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/ ... 3420110617
...New York City councilman Dan Garodnick wants to "pull the plug" on e-bikes because such bicycles create "creates a dangerous situation for a lot of pedestrians, kids, elderly people, anybody who's walking down the street and doesn't realize what looks like a bicycle actually has a motor." He wants to double existing fines for breaking traffic laws on a two-wheeler, presumably both electric-assist or conventional pedal-powered. It is not illegal to operate e-bikes on New York city streets
Full article in the link

http://www.garodnick.com/
mailto:garodnick@council.nyc.ny.tks
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by hydro-one » Jun 22 2011 9:04am

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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 22 2011 9:09am

Follow the money...

Money is the mothers milk of politics, and this guy gets political contributions from many sources. The more E-bikes are used, the less people use the subway and taxis.

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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by Lock » Jun 22 2011 10:15am

spinningmagnets wrote:The more E-bikes are used, the less people use the subway and taxis.
Interesting. `Been running a little poll for ebikers in Toronto... On a forum with 270 members, so far results:
Poll.jpg
Poll.jpg (39.56 KiB) Viewed 5349 times
I could set up a poll like this on ES but the demographic on ES is so spread out the results probably wouldn't mean much. Here we have a pretty good transit system but it doesn't get much gov support so users pay up to $3 full fare watt makes ebikes look better for some...

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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by Jason27 » Jun 22 2011 3:28pm

If ebikes are going to get banned in NYC, does that mean NYC E Wheels will go out of business??
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by number1cruncher » Jun 22 2011 3:38pm

Jason27 wrote:If ebikes are going to get banned in NYC, does that mean NYC E Wheels will go out of business??
I did not see anything that mentioned a ban, just doubled fines. Maybe I missed something?
Lock wrote: users pay up to $3 full fare
That's reasonable for non-gov subsidized public transit. Here in the DC area, I pay $4 each way on a subsidized system. And the prices can get higher the further you go, $5 each way max...
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by neptronix » Jun 22 2011 3:47pm

By the way, Garodnick's email is actually..

garodnick@council.nyc.ny.us
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by Lock » Aug 19 2011 8:53am

http://carrollgardens.patch.com/article ... tric-bikes
Councilmember Lander Introduces Legislation to Regulate Electric Bikes
Image

The bikes operate in a "legal black hole."

By Georgia Kral
August 18, 2011

Who gets to use a bike lane?

Well, that depends on who you ask. According to Councilmember Brad Lander, the rules regarding one type of two-wheeler, the electric bike, are unclear.

“These e-bikes travel in a legal black hole – some agencies consider them bicycles, others consider them mopeds," said Lander.

Use of electric bicycles has increased in the city, said Lander, which prompted him to introduce legislation calling for a task force to study what the laws actually are.

"In the interest of everyone’s safety, including the electric bicycle riders themselves, this legislation would convene a taskforce of the relevant agencies to make recommendations about new city and state rules to put in place," he said.

Lander added that electric bikes "represent a new, potentially useful transportation option," but can be hazardous if their use isn't regulated.

"Electric bikes can accelerate much faster than a bicycle and represent a potential hazard without clear city and state laws about where and how they can be ridden," he said.

The legislation was introduced Wednesday.
Would some ebiker from Brooklyn run over this guy please?
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by Ykick » Aug 19 2011 9:53am

Regulation is coming but this doesn't seem as if they're promoting a complete ban on eBikes. Politician, legalese form state they "may be useful" and they just need to be defined.

I think the guys that need to worry are the scooter eBikes. 'see more on the bridge path and those things, by nature of their small wheels, inadequate brakes, heavy SLA weight and often carrying two people - inherently dangerous and probably should be banned.

The state law is and has been in limbo for years and NYC has seen such a large increase in eBikes that something will be done. I ride 60-80 miles per week across midtown and I manage to remain mostly under the radar. It would take somebody very familiar with hub motors to spot my ebike.

Think about something - we need friends and not enemies in this revolution. Please offer respectful emails and make a spirited argument but don't give 'em ammunition to discount eBikes as scofflaw fringe group of people.

Believe me, the cab/limo folks don't want us around either, They'd much rather beat up the streets, burn and pollute the air than have eBikes conveying people around.

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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by jimw1960 » Aug 19 2011 10:02am

I don't see any problem. All he wants to do is raise the fines to make it safer for pedestrians. Don't break traffic laws and you won't have anything to worry about. Ebikers who speed, run lights, ride on pedestrian walkways, and other crazy stuff just make it worse for the rest of us who follow the rules.

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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by jag » Aug 19 2011 6:33pm

I think the most important point in the article to cite are:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/ ... 3420110617
In the tri-state region of the includes New Jersey, downstate New York and Connecticut pedestrian fatalities average 415 deaths per year.
Presumably, most of those fatalities result from being struck by cars and trucks. How many died after being struck by an electric-assisted bicycle isn't known. I'd guess the number is zero.
I would say that we can be sure that the number of pedestrians who died from being struck by a bike, ebike, skateboarder, rollerblader or similar is completely insignificant compared to motor vehicle deaths. All these activities can co-exist with a little common courtesy!

Yes, there are times and places when riding a bike on the sidewalk is a bad idea, but in north america there is simply so much sidewalk and various types of pedestrian paths that are often virtually unused to it is silly to prohibit bikes from using them when appropriate.

I switch between roads, paths and sidewalks as appropriate. When I ride my ebike at high speed I choose the street. So do the lycra roadies. When I bring my 2year old daughter home from daycare in the child trailer there is no way I'm going to battle dense rush hour multi-lane traffic of agonized and tired drivers. I ride the first part on sidewalks, then cross over a univ campus and some parks, then finally in the residential neighborhood where I live traffic is slow and moderate so I can ride on the road.
Last edited by jag on Aug 19 2011 8:56pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by ZOMGVTEK » Aug 19 2011 7:40pm

Lock wrote: ...users pay up to $3 full fare watt makes ebikes look better for some...
While you might consider that to be high, It costs most people I know $3-5 in fuel alone to go to work, roundtrip. This does not include the more or less flat-rate wear and tear, depreciation, insurance, registration, inspections, tires...

It costs me about $8 a day to go to work in my car, which is extremely significant when you work part-time. Not including wear, it costs me <$0.10 round trip to take my bike. Flat tires do add significant to this cost, but I didn't have any issues in weeks. The only real thing thats known to eventually fail is the battery, which would be about $0.35 a day, assuming I can make it run 1,000 cycles.

E-bikes are stupid cheap to operate. Even a cheap, reliable, efficient car is a few magnitudes more.

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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by veloman » Aug 19 2011 9:50pm

The problem I see with pedestrians on bike paths / walkways /pedestrian (walk and bike) bridges, here in Austin TX, is that pedestrians wander about aimlessly, right into your path. I am courteous, but some of these pedestrians are clueless. And often wearing headphones so they can never hear me yell out to them.

Just another case of "hate on the most efficient movers" - i.e. - the 20-25mph bicycles. Drivers don't want you on the road because you are 5mph under the limit (or at the speed limit), and pedestrians can't stay to the sides of the path.


Though, when I was in NYC, I saw an ebiker do some kamikaze sheet - like going full speed through a red light, literally weaving through the perpendicular traffic. Overall, I feel sorry for anyone who has to bike in NYC and can't do it all on greenways.


I myself would pay $100/yr for full rights and usage of world class bike facilities, linking all areas of the city. Austin is gradually making some great improvements thanks to a few key groups I affiliate myself with.
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by Hillhater » Aug 19 2011 11:02pm

Any Ebiker lunacy in city's is totally overshadowed by the antics of the pedal couriers who are invariably fast, reckless, and arrogant !
and any trafic disruption by Ebikes is also totally overshadowed by the Pedicabs who are wide, slow, and inconsiderate !
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by DAND214 » Aug 20 2011 12:17am

i am still not clear why they call them "Bike Paths" if the walkes, roller bladers and skateboards are in controll.

As said before they wear headsets, talk on there cell phones or are texting while they walk.
There was a city that just banned texting while walking! NYC?

Then you have the moms with the 3 year old on small bikes riding along while they are too busy to watch them while they talk to their friends. Never paying attention to what the kids are doing or what they are either.

Fine them for beeing stupid and causing accidents. Yeah the cars are dabgerous but wouldn't be as bad if the pedestrians would pay attention to what they were doing.

Sorry guys, I just have a problem with stupid people that can't walk and chew gum at the same time. And they blame it on the other guy, being what ever it is . Get their heads out of their asses while the are walking might help.

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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by Rassy » Aug 20 2011 12:43am

i am still not clear why they call them "Bike Paths" if the walkes, roller bladers and skateboards are in controll.
I think most of them are called "multi-purpose" paths or trails. Most bigger cities in Oregon have some and I love to ride on them. They weren't made just for bikes, and anyone not willing to be careful around the kids, etc. should go ride on the highway and hope the cars look out for them.

Actually, I think there should be varying speed limits, fairly low in urban areas, and maybe 20 MPH in more rural areas. The hard core lycra crowd tend to be the fastest and most dangerous that I see on the trails. The nice thing about having electric assist is that you can slow down or stop when appropriate and easily get going again. It tends to be the pedal only bikers that hate to stop at stop signs, etc

I try to remember the motto that has been adopted many places, "Share The Road", and that it applies both ways. :D
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by Ykick » Aug 20 2011 11:37pm

Rassy wrote:The nice thing about having electric assist is that you can slow down or stop when appropriate and easily get going again. It tends to be the pedal only bikers that hate to stop at stop signs, etc.
ABSOLUTELY!!!

'didn't quote it but I like your motto too! I'm of the opinion everything about riding in NYC sucks. Cars, cabs, buses, deliveries, pedestrians, you name it - some sort of crap is gonna get to you and consider yourself fortunate to survive! You can not even attempt to ride here without a serious dose of situational awareness!
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by Lock » Nov 04 2011 3:13pm

http://www.streetsblog.org/2011/11/03/c ... -licenses/
Thursday, November 3, 2011
CB 8 Committee Warms to Bike-Share, Sets Aside Bike Licenses
by Ben Fried on November 3, 2011

Manhattan Community Board 8 has a checkered history when it comes to bike-friendly policies. In the past few years, the Upper East Side CB voted repeatedly to support protected bike lanes, but also put out resolutions drenched with anti-bike vitriol on more than one occasion (most recently this June, when the subject was establishing shared bike-ped paths across Central Park).

Last night the board’s transportation committee heard from NYC DOT about the city’s bike-share plans, and apparently it was a drama-free affair.
SNIP
The committee then took up a proposal on electric-assisted bicycles, or “e-bikes.” Statements from NYPD and the State DMV were distributed to demonstrate that most if not all e-bikes cannot legally be operated on NYC streets. A proposal was discussed under which businesses seeking a cafe license would have their applications recommended to be approved by the CB only if they agreed not to use e-bikes to deliver food. This proposal passed after thoughtful discussion.
"...passed after thoughtful discussion..."

Yeah, right.

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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by neptronix » Nov 04 2011 3:24pm

I'm sorry if you live in NYC.
They are apparently dead set on fighting the future of clean transportation. I wonder who's paying them?
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by veloman » Nov 04 2011 6:05pm

I guess it's a bit unclear whether ebiks in NYC are being attacked. Making a mass statement that ebikes are dangerous is ridiculous. They are much SAFER than bicycles because you CAN accelerate faster and keep up with traffic easier. How about pedestrians look where they walk for once? I see dumb ass pedestrians wander all over the place, jaywalk, take the middle of the path when they could easily stay to right.

NYC is probably the #1 place in America that NEEDS ebikes. If an ebiker rides stupid, ticket him. Simple as that. Don't ticket an ebiker for going 27mph because traffic is going 27mph. NYC should be paying people to ebike.
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by liveforphysics » Nov 04 2011 7:09pm

Lock wrote:http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/ ... 3420110617
...New York City councilman Dan Garodnick wants to "pull the plug" on e-bikes because such bicycles create "creates a dangerous situation for a lot of pedestrians, kids, elderly people, anybody who's walking down the street and doesn't realize what looks like a bicycle actually has a motor."

OMG!!! I didn't even notice it has a motor!!! Ahhhhh!!!!! I'm in danger!!!! Help me!!! That bike has a motor!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!!
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by Alan B » Nov 04 2011 7:14pm

Don't all ebikes have pedestrian eating motors? When the batteries get low, they just suck in the next closest pedestrian and get a few more miles range.

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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by oatnet » Nov 04 2011 10:00pm

liveforphysics wrote:
Lock wrote:http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/ ... 3420110617
...New York City councilman Dan Garodnick wants to "pull the plug" on e-bikes because such bicycles create "creates a dangerous situation for a lot of pedestrians, kids, elderly people, anybody who's walking down the street and doesn't realize what looks like a bicycle actually has a motor."

OMG!!! I didn't even notice it has a motor!!! Ahhhhh!!!!! I'm in danger!!!! Help me!!! That bike has a motor!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That was so funny I almost fell off my chair!
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by Lock » Nov 05 2011 12:22pm

oatnet wrote: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That was so funny I almost fell off my chair!
How funny is this. In the NYC City Council elections in 2009, 75% of the voters in District 4 voted for the incumbent Dem Daniel Garodnick...
:(
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Re: Persecuting E-Bikes in New York City

Post by JohnC » Nov 05 2011 1:27pm

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