Most Annoying ...

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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sn0wchyld   1 MW

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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by sn0wchyld » Jul 24 2011 2:39am

DrkAngel wrote: Li-ion at .5C are about 100%+.
wait... what do you mean by 100%+? a battery that is more than 100% efficient?! WOW! :P :P

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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by NeilP » Jul 24 2011 3:48am

For those of us in Uk Europe...what are the rules on this 4 way stop junction?

I am coming over to USA/Canada in October and am looking to hire a harley for a week or so. Would be good to know what the rules are.

In fact I may start a new thread on this subject
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by dogman dan » Jul 24 2011 6:06am

Re the wattage thing, I agree. People always ask what's the max you can put into a motor. I always ask back, for how long? Followed by for what kind of ride?

Poor efficiency might be tolerable for a short enough duration, but to go for an hour, you better be making less heat out of your watts. My dirtbike is a great example. At 2500 watts it rides really great for about 20-30 min before overheating. But I find it much more fun to ride it with a 1500 watt controller and battery combination, (input measured, but it's all I can measure with a CA) and ride for at least an hour, or till I get tired and start eating rocks in crashes. It still gets up most hills with the lower wattage, so much better to make motion with the motor instead of heat.

Obviously when I pump 2500 watts into that particular motor, much more of the watts is made into heat. How can this be better? I have to carry more battery so I can smoke my motor? I much prefer to run a reasonable wattage, carry less battery weight and ride till I'm satisfied.

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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by DrkAngel » Jul 28 2011 1:07am

sn0wchyld wrote:
DrkAngel wrote: Li-ion at .5C are about 100%+.
wait... what do you mean by 100%+? a battery that is more than 100% efficient?! WOW! :P :P
100%+ ... as output percentage of "rated" battery capacity.
SLA typically rated at 20hrs = .05 C ... 1 C = 60% ... less than .05 C = 100% +
Li-ion typically rated @.5-1C - more than 1 C = 100% - ... less than .5 C = 100% +
Lipo ... varies wildly, (C rate and accuracy), by manufacturer, or seller

Approximated, to illustrate C rate usage affect on, "actual" vs "rated", output capacity.

Side note:
Some lithium types have a nearly 100% input to output ratio.
SLA - Nimh - Nicd can require 150% input to fully charge.
eg. 10ah SLA might require 15ah input to fully charge, coupled with 6ah output, (1hr), looks pretty grim.
15ah Li-ion, charged at less than .5C, might require 15.3ah to charge, then at less than .5C, might output 15+ah.

Heat is the indicator of inefficiency! Nicd-Nimh normally get hot, they "balance" by expending excess charge as heat, SLA, especially when fast charged, can also get very warm, (.15C charge rate, recommended).
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Jul 28 2011 10:21am

jonathanm wrote:When I lived in Chicago proper, drivers were pretty crazy, in an aggressive sort of way. Now I live out in the burbs I have the opposite problem....

As a Brit in the US, I've never been fond of the 4 way stop...but out here in the burbs, it becomes a real PITA....people who I'm sure are very nice pleasant people who mean no harm and are only being polite, REFUSE to be the first to go at a 4 way stop. Even if they were there first.

Example.... I am approaching a 4 way stop and on the other side some nice lady is also approaching in her SUV. She is going faster than me, and could in fact reach the stop, STOP!, and drive on before I even get to the intersection. Instead she decides to stop, and wait for me to stop as well. She is not happy until there is a vehicle on all 4 sides of the intersection. Ok, now it's time to get moving and she was there first.....but she refuses to move until everyone else has moved....that shows what a lovely considerate person she is........ :twisted:
Yes!! We have that problem here in Oregon City too! However, I get both, either they wait forever to decide who's turn it is next or just ignore the fact that I have a turn at all.

My favorite is when "Miss/Mr. Polite" is there waiting at the intersection, I refuse to to when it is their turn, I have to wave them on to get them going sometimes, and THEN the next 2-3 people behind them go too!? :roll:

It's pretty sad when Allstate Insurance has a commercial now featuring this problem with two ppl at the same intersection not going, insisting the other person go, and then going at the same time hitting each other! :lol:

Just shows how the same ppl who can't stop playing with their phone/radio/talking to their passenger, screw up an otherwise efficient system.

Maybe we should just switch to roundabouts so there is less brain power needed, when ppl here in the US have to make decision, it just creates more traffic. :P
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by Pure » Jul 28 2011 8:05pm

NeilP wrote:For those of us in Uk Europe...what are the rules on this 4 way stop junction?

I am coming over to USA/Canada in October and am looking to hire a harley for a week or so. Would be good to know what the rules are.

In fact I may start a new thread on this subject
First person to the 4-way has the right-of-way. If 2 or more vehicles arrive at the same time, the person to the furthest right has the right-of-way.
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by scotticeberg » Jul 29 2011 1:27am

For those of you out there looking for a superbright headlight and taillight, check out dinotte lights. They make a 400 lumen led taillight, and something like a 1200 lumen headlight. Get them sans batteries and rig up your own.

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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by DrkAngel » Aug 27 2011 9:19am

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I Didn't Read The Whole Thread...

Post by TonyReynolds » Aug 27 2011 10:43am

but agree with much of what's been said.

As a driver, motorcyclist and bicycle rider, what annoys me most (even more than drivers using cell phones) are bicyclists that REFUSE to obey the rules of the road. The ones that run red lights and stop signs, that use cross walks to cruise thru an intersection.

Case in point, a GROUP of riders the other day that flew down a hill and blew through the stop sign to continue in a right turn at the intersection. They didn't even slow down to check for traffic from their left. Their attitude (I guess...) is that they're bicyclists and "by-God we have the right of way" no matter what, like the sailboat that pulls in front of a state ferry on Puget Sound. "What, me? YOU have to YIELD!"

It just frosts my cookies...

The League of American Wheelmen (and others) FOUGHT long and hard for bicyclists to have the same rights as other vehicles at the turn of the last century. Thanks to those who refuse to operate their bikes as legitimate vehicles, drivers believe bicycles to be TOYS that don't belong on the road, at least here in the United States.

Yikes!

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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by Floont » Aug 27 2011 1:12pm

REdiculous wrote:...As a driver I absolutely hate those red flashers on the back of bikes. They're too bright and distracting - it makes it hard to see where you are because it strobes and you move. I can see you're there anyway because you have a headlight..at least turn the flashing off. :roll:
I don't like them either, but I bought and use them in flashing mode ever since Sept 3, 2010 when a truck pulled out in front of me after "not seeing" me approaching him on my bicycle at a reasonable speed. $12K in medical bills later, I do not care if I annoy anyone, as long as they see me.

FA

PS He left the seen of the accident and was never caught.
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by Floont » Aug 27 2011 1:22pm

Jason27 wrote:What I find annoying are the people buy cheap $400 walmart electric bikes then complain when it breaks down. They think they are getting a good deal when really they bought crap on wheels...
I have a Walbike that I have ridden since the early 90's. After my wreck last year at 20MPH, the wheels were bent, one brake handle was bent, one hand grip was torn off, and it suffered a few other minor scrapes. The frame was not bent or any other component including the handlebars. After rebuilding it (faster this 2nd time), It is still my fastest ebike to-date at 57MPH.

I am currently converting a new 2010 "Walgoose" Blackcomb. They're cheap bikes, that's for sure, but they make excellent bases for ebikes with their use of steel where it needs to be steel.

FA
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by Floont » Aug 27 2011 1:34pm

torqueon wrote:Flattery that displays total ignorance !
1 Can you make it solar powered ! I am trying to figure out how to Carrie the 4 x 8 sheet of plywood from home depot !
People think that the sun puts out far more energy per square meter on the earth's surface than it really does and many think that solar panels are nearly 100% efficient. I have a relative that is a high school physics teacher who actually asked me that question.
torqueon wrote:2 Recharge batteries with generator ! What happened to basic physics in school ?
There are people on this forum who actually relieve that nonsense. That fact still has me flabbergasted.
torqueon wrote:3 You should patent that thing . I mean please ! bicycles, motors, batteries, etc have been around, well over a century
If I had a nickel for every time someone recommended that to me, I'd be a rich man. All these things have been around for decades. It's battery technology that has to advance to make our hobby/passion more feasible to the masses.
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by Floont » Aug 27 2011 1:40pm

bionx 1954 wrote:Hear in Ottawa we have a lot of paved NCC green space shared paths that are well marked and have a YELLOOW line down the center.

But that does not stop walkers from stopping in the middle of the path and TALKING to each other which bring bike traffic to a STOP, or worse WALKING 4 or 5 a breast to STOP All TRAFFIC BOTH WAYS. What do you call 5 blonds walking a breast ( a wind tunnel)
Unfortunately, we have groups of bicyclists here in Florida that take up both sides of the road on weekends. Obviously, you can take up a whole lane; that is our right. But the whole road?
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Re: I Didn't Read The Whole Thread...

Post by Floont » Aug 27 2011 1:44pm

TonyReynolds wrote:...As a driver, motorcyclist and bicycle rider, what annoys me most (even more than drivers using cell phones) are bicyclists that REFUSE to obey the rules of the road. The ones that run red lights and stop signs, that use cross walks to cruise thru an intersection.

Case in point, a GROUP of riders the other day that flew down a hill and blew through the stop sign to continue in a right turn at the intersection. They didn't even slow down to check for traffic from their left. Their attitude (I guess...) is that they're bicyclists and "by-God we have the right of way" no matter what, like the sailboat that pulls in front of a state ferry on Puget Sound. "What, me? YOU have to YIELD!"

It just frosts my cookies....
Very common here in Florida and it irritates me too. They want the best of both worlds; others must respect their use of the road; and they don't have to obey any traffic control devices.
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by lester12483 » Aug 28 2011 8:07pm

Floont wrote:[ It is still my fastest ebike to-date at 57MPH.

I am currently converting a new 2010 "Walgoose" Blackcomb. They're cheap bikes, that's for sure, but they make excellent bases for ebikes with their use of steel where it needs to be steel.

FA[/color]

57 MPH ??.. Geez! Arent you worried about safety?
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by Floont » Aug 29 2011 6:47am

lester12483 wrote: 57 MPH ??.. Geez! Aren't you worried about safety?
Sorry it took so long to respond. I had to look up this word "safety". :wink:
I am concerned about safety, but I am not worried. I wear a lot of protective gear when I'm going for a speed-run. My "normal" riding speed is in the 30 to 40 MPH range. I live in a rural community and that is the general speed of vehicles when I encounter one. Most of the neighbors wave at me as I pass their places; I'm just part of the scenery.

FA
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by miniebiker » Aug 30 2011 2:48pm

Floont wrote:
lester12483 wrote: 57 MPH ??.. Geez! Aren't you worried about safety?
Sorry it took so long to respond. I had to look up this word "safety". :wink:
I am concerned about safety, but I am not worried. I wear a lot of protective gear when I'm going for a speed-run. My "normal" riding speed is in the 30 to 40 MPH range. I live in a rural community and that is the general speed of vehicles when I encounter one. Most of the neighbors wave at me as I pass their places; I'm just part of the scenery.

FA
Rural Tampa ? 579 hill ? :)

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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by Floont » Aug 31 2011 5:59am

miniebiker wrote:Rural Tampa ? 579 hill ? :)
Happy Hill? Too many cars.

Schrader Road, Pasco Road, Curley Road, Old St. Joe Road in San Antonio, FL.
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by DrkAngel » Mar 04 2013 12:41pm

DrkAngel wrote:It started out as a little bit laughable, but is so persistent that it has become annoying ...
Forum members that rate their motors by how many watts they can pump into them!

They don't seem to recognize that pumping in double the watts, might produce 50% more torque, but also produces 350% the damaging heat.

1000w = 750w torque + 250w heat = 75% efficient
2000w = 1125w torque + 875w heat = 56% efficient

The "watt" rating, on an electric motor, is a measure of a motors power output!
Not the input watts!!!


A "750w motor" is equal to 1 horse power. (750w = 1hp)
The motor might require 1000w input to produce 750w peak output, this would mean that the motor is 75% efficient!
Various motors attain between 75-90% "peak"* efficiency!

Controllers vary widely in efficiency, also!
"Peak"* efficiency is between 80-95%.

Batteries vary widely in efficiency, also!
eg. SLA batteries expended at 1C are 60% of rated, Li-ion at .5C are about 100%+.

* - "Peak" efficiency is attained somewhere near 75% of top speed.
At a dead stop, efficiency is 0%, but improves as "peak" is neared.
At 5mph 1000w input, might produce, 20% efficiency, or 200w motor output.
.......... 1500w input, might produce, 15% efficiency, or 250w motor output.

750w output might require

750w/75% motor efficiency = 1000w/80% controller efficiency = 1250/60% SLA efficiency = 2083 watts used!

Yes, I do realize that dynamometer testing is the only accurate way to measure motor output, and beyond the reach of most everyone, but please ... realize that input watts is not directly relateable to output watts!
I figured a fairly simple-cheap way to determine your motor system peak watt output = HP.
Peak Horsepower - Maximum Output Watts ... How to determine!

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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by DrkAngel » Jun 28 2013 8:07am

Persons who's mantra is "You get what you pay for!"

My elderly mother is one of these self deluded sufferers.

I have seen enough multi-marketing, especially in catalogs sent to older people, that a truer mantra might be "I pay double for the same cheap crap, and am proud of doing it!"

Often these "specialty" catalogs find "iffy" gadgets and gizmos, revamp the description, add a little creative photographic magic (polishing the turd) and sell it for double the original price. A little searching can often find the exact item at 1/2, or less, the original price. So, the gullible might spend 4x the money for the same cheap crap and ... finance it at unscrupulously outrageous interest.

Similar with ebikes and eBike components. A little hunting will uncover a huge variance in price, for the exact same item. The more expensive "turds" polished up in fancy catalogs with pretty pictures and glowing "quotes".

Also, I laugh at the skeptic who complains that a price is "too good to be true", I picked up a pile of brand new S-150-24 MeanWells at less than $3.50 each, including shipping, apparently because others refused to believe the price.

But! ...
Read description carefully and check for "reputable reviews" of the item and, more importantly, the seller. Counterfeits and "clones" abound!
PayPal is a great insurance policy ...they can usually get you "un-ripped off".
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by oatnet » Jun 28 2013 12:27pm

OK, here is mine.

My local beach has a path with three lanes, one for pedestrians, and the other two for bikes. The bike lanes have a sign every 50' which clearly says "Bikes Only, No Pedestrians" and points the direction of travel. However, pedestrians seem to prefer use only the bike lanes, so when I have to pass, usually it is in the pedestrian lane. Only when they are walking 6 across and completely blocking all three lanes, do they actually spill over into the pedestrian lane.

On this path, 80% of these pedestrians walk in the same direction of travel as bikes, so their backs are to oncoming bike traffic, they can't see us to get out of our way. The other 20% do it right, face into oncoming bike traffic, but instead of getting out of your way, they glare at you like "WTF are you doing in _MY_ lane?"

On my moto, my biggest peeve is the 'tards who can't stay within their lanes on turns at intersections. We've got nice curved lane markers in intersections here, but instead of following the curve, most folks do a sharp 45 degree turn, then drive a straight line across the lane markers, then make another sharp 45 degree turn as they enter the cross street, which pushes the passenger front corner into the next lane. You never know whether they will follow the curve or make two sharp turns, so no place is safe. I have seen accidents in three-lane turns, where there was no car in the middle lane but the outer and inner lanes ran into each other.
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by Chalo » Jun 28 2013 1:32pm

oatnet wrote:On my moto, my biggest peeve is the 'tards who can't stay within their lanes on turns at intersections. We've got nice curved lane markers in intersections here, but instead of following the curve, most folks do a sharp 45 degree turn, then drive a straight line across the lane markers, then make another sharp 45 degree turn as they enter the cross street, which pushes the passenger front corner into the next lane.
Here it seems like the 'tards are just too durned lazy to turn their steering wheels with both hands, so they make wide radius left turns that take them through the oncoming lanes of both streets. I notice it most when I'm on my bike in the left lane waiting for my left turn signal, and a car driver barrels through such that they'd have hit me if I had been in a car.

It really is too bad drivers can't get fired. Heck, if incompetent driving got people banned from driving, there would be so many folks looking for alternative transportation that we'd be forced to get our public transit situation in order.

When I lived on the beach in West Seattle, there were always peds walking several abreast in the bike lanes, even when the broad sidewalk was empty. But what irritated me even more than that were the small number of pretend-racer type riders who would yell at folks in the bike lanes who were riding slowly or meandering, when there was a normal traffic lane right there on the other side of the parked cars. If you just have to haul ass on the beach, the lane seems like the place to do it.
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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by lbz5mc12 » Jun 30 2013 12:17am

I've gotta chime in on this a little. Okay a couple of instances. I got a call from one of those invention submission places because of something I signed up for online and I started talking to the rep about my transpo. She didn't even know what an ebike was yet she works for an invention submission place. I was taking some courses at ITT, big waste of time/money, and asked if I could bring my bike inside to charge while I was in class. So the Dean goes out to check my bike and give me my approval. Now supposedly he's an electrical engineer but he didn't know what an ebike was or for that matter what a smart charger was.

Yesterday I was riding heading east on a residential main road going about 20 mph, I have no stop sign, and a freaking lady starts to enter the intersection from a side street on the left of me. I was only about 20 feet away so I hit my brakes. She finally notices me and decides to stop in the middle of the road to let me go. Realizing the obstacle she has just created I start yelling at her and waving her forward to get her out of the middle of the road. She finally gets out of the way and I continue on thinking to myself, "what the hell is wrong with people"?

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by DrkAngel » Jun 30 2013 7:40am

lbz5mc12 wrote: Yesterday I was riding heading east on a residential main road going about 20 mph, I have no stop sign, and a freaking lady starts to enter the intersection from a side street on the left of me. I was only about 20 feet away so I hit my brakes. She finally notices me and decides to stop in the middle of the road to let me go. Realizing the obstacle she has just created I start yelling at her and waving her forward to get her out of the middle of the road. She finally gets out of the way and I continue on thinking to myself, "what the hell is wrong with people"?
I run, daytime, with a 260 lumen strobing led light. Almost, of a certainty it has saved me from a multitude of unsavory encounters. How can I feel so certain? Once in a while I forget to turn it on ...
The strobing light gets me more attention and additional consideration, apparently most drivers realize that I am not some slow moving bicycle.

Occasionally, I also don my helmet with attached additional light. A 260 lumen led with zoom function and high, low and strobe modes. For night riding I put it on high and zoom for scanning ahead for potholes. Daytime I zoom and strobe ... aiming to beam inattentive drivers. Especially for a low profile trike, I'd go with a helmet mounted strobe ... for greatest notice factor.

Image $6
Pretty sure 500 lumen claim is ... enthusiastically overly-optimistic!

Want some thing a bit more ... ornamental?

Image $6.50

OH! ... some cagers find my strobing light ... most annoying! Ha ha ha!
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Eskimo   10 kW

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Re: Most Annoying ...

Post by Eskimo » Jun 30 2013 10:33am

What amazes me here is that pedesterians about never walk against the red light. People just don"t do that here. If it"s four o clock in the morning, and there"s no other people around, they wait until they get the green. But when they ride bicycles, about 70% rides against the red all the time, and no one cares. Last week i witnessed a situation, where police van was parked next the lights, they were doing normal traffic watch. Over half the cyclists rode against the red, they could have slapped the hood of the police car with their hand when they went by, it was that close. Cops did not care at all, of cyclists riding against the red all the time few feets away. It was funny to watch. Cyclists definitely saw that police van very close, but they just did not care. When they walk, they care.
With that crazy "can you charge it by pedaling"-question i think people just want to link excercise to moving, like with normal bicycle. People have hard time accepting that you can ride around your bicycle just like that, and charge it without sweat. They see bicycle as a excercise machine only, and can not understand why anybody would want to ride bicycle if he does not excercise hard.
I see protestant ethics there hiding in the shadows. Car is not excercise machine in their head, so they accept that you can just fill it up. For these people E-bike is like a rowing machine that has electric motor installed, they just don"t get the logic. They don"t think transport or fun, when they see a bicycle, they think excercise. For them rowing machine and bicycle are in the same category. Then they try to reach some kind of logic by thinking "if you charge that by pedaling, it makes sense!".
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