Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-w/ Video

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread

Post by drewjet » Oct 28 2011 5:48am

LI-ghtcycle wrote:Look'n good!! :D :D

I'm guessing all that extra space between the motor and seat post is for batteries?

Love how you have brought the crank forward too in this design. 8)
Thanks. Yes the Batts are gouing to go there, should be well protected in a crash. I wish I could take credit for the crank location, but they are exactly where they are due to the design of the donor bike, I didn't move them.

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread

Post by drewjet » Oct 28 2011 5:56am

StudEbiker wrote:Looks awesome!!
Thank You. I got the brakes on. I got the front Perelli on, I got the peddle chain on, but it will need a tensioner. I should get the Perelli on the back today. And hopefully get the power shifter on as well.

I couldn't help myself, and took it for a ride with the 12S2P Turnigy 20C 5000mah packs out of one of my other bikes. I didn't have the shifter hooked up yet so all I could do to change gears was to stop, get off the bike, and manually rotate it. Man, nice acceleration in low gear but quickly runs out of juice as it tops out around 10 mph in low gear. In highest gear it still accelerates pretty good, and top speed was 37 MPH. Should be slightly faster with the Perelli as it is about 1.5" larger Diamater. But I will either need to change the gearing or up the voltage to get the 65 or so MPH out of it that I crave.

Should have some more pics up by the end of the day.

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread

Post by Jay64 » Oct 28 2011 10:30am

Bloody brilliant drew! I'm liking that a lot. Are those motor mount holes slotted? When I get back to Florida we are definitely going to have to meet up with the toys. I picked up another ebicycle when I was in Cali. It was SoSauty's toy racer build, minus the battery pack and has a dead motor.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =toy+racer

I think I'm going to cut off the rear end and weld in an extension similar to yours.
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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread

Post by drewjet » Oct 28 2011 1:31pm

Jay64 wrote:Bloody brilliant drew! I'm liking that a lot. Are those motor mount holes slotted? When I get back to Florida we are definitely going to have to meet up with the toys. I picked up another ebicycle when I was in Cali. It was SoSauty's toy racer build, minus the battery pack and has a dead motor.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =toy+racer

I think I'm going to cut off the rear end and weld in an extension similar to yours.
Thanks Jay. I will be having electrathon races in the Tampa area, about 1 a month for the next 4 or 5 months, so should be easy to get together.

Yes the motor mounts are slotted for adjuting motor chain, I will have to put a tensioner on the bicycle crank chain as seen in the photo below.

That bike of SoSauty's looks nice, I know my Astro powered MTB is insane on the power and so light, makes a fun ride.
2011-10-28 11.20.47.jpg
I had to take the Perelli off the front as I had bought a 2.5" and a 2.75" But I just couldn't get chain clearance on the back wheel with the 2.75 so I swapped it out to the 2.5 and put a hookworm on the front. I will need to order a 2.5 for the front.
2011-10-28 11.20.47.jpg (77.47 KiB) Viewed 1415 times

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread...Ideas Needed!

Post by drewjet » Dec 28 2011 5:32pm

Well i have been riding and playing with the bike for a few months. Nothing major to report. The Nuvinci is not happy with the 7500 watts I have been putting through it. It works fine until it warms up, which is about 8 miles of hard riding. Then if you let it freewheel, it wont transmit power till you come to almost a complete stop. I was afraid it wouldn't hold up.

Also, I am not happy with only 7500 watts. Yes it is quick, but I want scary fast. I want what LFP has. I have a 72 volt 400 amp alltrax controller to try with the Etek, that should get my numbers up. Unfortunately I loaned my Etek to my buddy, so I have no motor and it sits.

Great news is that Matt (Recumpence) has officially stated that the 4" Astro would be coming soon, hopefully February. The largest of which will be putting out up to 35 or so HP, right in the sweetspot for me. I have a 100 volt 200 amp controller, so should be a perfect match.

My problem is now how to put the power to the ground. I could make an adapter to go to the disc brake mount, but then I loose the disc brake, someting I don't really want, the other option would be to go through dual freewheels like my Astro powered mountain bike, but I don't think and bicycle freewheel will be up to the task. ANY IDEAS?

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by amberwolf » Dec 29 2011 1:25am

Combo disc-brake chainring, mounted in place of the rotor? Caliper goes in front instead of in back of wheel, still on left side, in the gap where the chain doesn't wrap on the chainring. Been done before; I think I recall pics of one in an AussieJester build thread (dunno if it was on his bike or just discussed there).

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by drewjet » Dec 29 2011 5:39am

Thanks AW, I did think of that, but I think for it to work it would have to be belt drive, because there is no way it will remain clear of all grease with the chain so close. I am not opposed to a belt drive, but not 100% sold on it.

Any other ideas?

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by amberwolf » Dec 29 2011 12:52pm

Don't grease the chain, wax it. Then there is not a grease problem. ;) I suspect that's what others have done that ran systems like that, though I dont' remember if they said or not.

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread...Ideas Needed!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Dec 29 2011 2:53pm

drewjet wrote:Well i have been riding and playing with the bike for a few months. Nothing major to report. The Nuvinci is not happy with the 7500 watts I have been putting through it. It works fine until it warms up, which is about 8 miles of hard riding. Then if you let it freewheel, it wont transmit power till you come to almost a complete stop. I was afraid it wouldn't hold up.

Also, I am not happy with only 7500 watts. Yes it is quick, but I want scary fast. I want what LFP has. I have a 72 volt 400 amp alltrax controller to try with the Etek, that should get my numbers up. Unfortunately I loaned my Etek to my buddy, so I have no motor and it sits.

Great news is that Matt (Recumpence) has officially stated that the 4" Astro would be coming soon, hopefully February. The largest of which will be putting out up to 35 or so HP, right in the sweetspot for me. I have a 100 volt 200 amp controller, so should be a perfect match.

My problem is now how to put the power to the ground. I could make an adapter to go to the disc brake mount, but then I loose the disc brake, someting I don't really want, the other option would be to go through dual freewheels like my Astro powered mountain bike, but I don't think and bicycle freewheel will be up to the task. ANY IDEAS?
ONLY 7500 watts!?! Just 10 HP?!!? That's ALL?!!? :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted:

The NuVinci wasn't designed for much over 7 HP IIRC, and I have heard of some of the gassers have determined an upper limit of 9 HP meaning that the NuVinci starts to slip at 9 HP, so really nothing over 8 HP continuous that I have seen or heard of is possible with the NuVinci.

That is some screaming watts!! But lets not forget, it's just as important that you put the power into forward motion, just having that on tap, and breaking things in the drive-line doesn't do much good. :wink:

I'm really curious, has the NuVinci continued to perform normally at slower speeds/power levels even after being pushed this hard?

I have heard some of the gassers say that the internal fluid starts to darken at this point, however, I wouldn't open it up as long as it's still performing ok at 8 hp and less.

Again, great build! That 4 inch Astro sounds really interesting! :D

As far as running a left hand drive, why not just run a dual right hand drive with a straight cog? All you really need a freewheel on is the pedal chain, and if you have a dual right hand drive (I have the motor driven sprocket just behind the pedal sprocket) and use maybe 420 motorcycle chain with the power levels you are using, or what ever LFP is using on his (IIRC 420 chain wasn't up the task?)

I see your point about not wanting to get grease on the disc rotor. What does LFP have for a brake on the back? Knowing him, he doesn't and just relies on a really good front brake (it is a race bike after all, not like you need a rear brake if your riding style allows) and there is always regen braking for the rear if you want to load/unload the suspension in corners but your not using *** rear ***suspension right?
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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread...Ideas Needed!

Post by MattyCiii » Dec 29 2011 4:10pm

drewjet wrote:ANY IDEAS?
How about left side drive using something like the chainring adapter here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=32349

The chainring is pushed towards the center of the wheel giving room to also use a disc brake. You can bolt a disc brake rotor outboard of the adapter. The rotor will be about 4-5mm farther awat from center than stock, but since your rear triangle is custom you can install your disc brake mounts accordingly.

I purshaced one of those adapters for my project, which uses a NuVinci N360 as the rear hub. Their stock chainring adapter is "too deep" for the N360, but I asked FFR and they're going to do a run of adapters that are more shallow & compatible with the N360. I don't know if the specifications for the N171 are the same.

Another problem would be if the adapter pushes the chainline in too much to clear your 2.5" tires. I can take some measurements when I get home and let you know, maybe it's an option worth exploring.

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by MattyCiii » Dec 29 2011 7:16pm

Pictures of the above.

Chainring & adapter resting on NuVinci N360. Adapter is "hat shaped", but it's too deep for this application. A shallower one would fit the N360 just fine, and perhaps offset the chain enough so you can also fit a rotor.
IMG_1068.jpg
47mm Recumpence rim, 2.5" moped tire, FFR trikes chainring adapter

Eyeballing it, it looks like there's enough clearance to pass the tire if I mount the chainring to the outside of the adapter not the inside. So, this might be an option you can use. The adapter was about $85 if I recall correctly.
IMG_1065.jpg
If you mount the chainring to the OUTSIDE of the adapter (it's meant for you to mount chainring to inside) you get barely enough room for chain clearance
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by Thud » Dec 30 2011 12:01am

if you do a "Sproder" set up I understand there is 219 o-ring chain. the lube is contained internaly in those & would not require lubing like a normal chain drive....food for thought.
Last edited by Thud on Jan 06 2012 11:52am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by drewjet » Dec 31 2011 7:30am

Thanks for the input guys. I am still not 100% sure what direction to go. Once I decide I will be sure to post. Now all I need is enough patience to wait for Matt to get the motors in.

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by drewjet » Dec 31 2011 8:26am

Does anyone think there is any freewheel made, like the sick parts/white flanged type or standard sprocket type, that will hold up to 20+KW?

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by drewjet » Jan 03 2012 9:07pm

I think I have my solution. Stevil_Knevil is selling wheels with ISO 6 bolt brake bosses on both sides of the hub http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 66#p510888
I have a set coming, plus a spare rear hub

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by Stevil_Knevil » Jan 06 2012 5:02am

Ta daaa..

Image

..hope it does the trick for you, Drew!

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by drewjet » Jan 06 2012 8:49am

Thanks for the pic Steve, I just need to figure out how to get the peddle chain to freewheel now. Once it's in my hand, I am sure I will figure out something.

I did find this which may be interesting also, I don't know about availablity. It is called the Santa Cruz Motor Works Hub
Santa Cruz Scooter Works Hub.jpg
Santa Cruz Scooter Works Hub.jpg (10.05 KiB) Viewed 1302 times

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by Thud » Jan 06 2012 12:12pm

They are right here Drewjet:
http://www.damgood.com/products/dualhub.html

I know the early versions of these went out with an improper crush spacer in the hub. Once the axel was tightend it loaded the bearings & they would fail in less than an hour.
I am sure they fixed that already.
they are a handy looking part.
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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by drewjet » Jan 06 2012 5:30pm

Thanks Thud.

He doesn't sell them, but told me who does. Dean at Pipleine manufacturing 408-279-2307 $120.00 and it comes with a freewheel. 36 hole for #12 spokes. He has sprockets in 35 and 219, maybe other sizes too as he said he can make any size you need for $30.00

After I get my wheels from steve I will see if I can get what I want with them, if not I may get one of those.
Last edited by drewjet on Jan 10 2012 6:40am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by etard » Jan 10 2012 2:32am

Whoa! that's freakin cool man! Drew, did you mean 219 sprockets?
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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by nieles » Jan 10 2012 6:30am

this should be a very good hub for RC builds!
only problem i see is the right side discbrake

http://www.damgood.com/products/bicycle/dual-drive.pdf

here is the pdf.
drewjet wrote:He doesn't sell them, but told me who does. Dean at Pipleine manufacturing 408-279-2307 $120.00 and it comes with a freewheel. 36 hole for #12 spokes. He has sprockets in 35 and 319, maybe other sizes too as he said he can make any size you need for $30.00
What kind of Freewheel is supplied? How many teeth does it have?

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by drewjet » Jan 10 2012 6:41am

etard wrote:Whoa! that's freakin cool man! Drew, did you mean 219 sprockets?
Very colol, yes I meant 219, typo fixed

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by drewjet » Jan 10 2012 6:45am

nieles wrote:this should be a very good hub for RC builds!
only problem i see is the right side discbrake

What kind of Freewheel is supplied? How many teeth does it have?
I would make an adapter for the right side to hold a sprocket and use the left side for the disc brake.

I did not ask questions about the freewheel, I just want one there to make jonny law happy, and would be nice to be able to peddle home in the event of an electrical failure

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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by Thud » Jan 10 2012 7:23am

the pdf nieles linked to lists the freewheel as a 16t unit.
looks like a standard Dicta removal tool will grab it.
Doesn't mean they will use the freewheel drawn though.
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Re: Drewjet's road-racer Ebike build thread-Idea Needed

Post by nieles » Jan 10 2012 7:40am

ah yes, overlooked the partslist in the pdf.

looks like it links to these SKU Numbers
http://sunlitecycling.com/product_detai ... FREEWHEELS


if you are going with both sprockets on the right side, i would bolt the sproket, instead of the pins they use.
that way the concentricity can be controlled better.

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