Have a Kona Ute, recommend me a setup?

Hi guys,

I've been lurking and reading for a while now. I recently got my ride, it's a Kona Ute (aluminum) and I'd like to give it some assist for grocery loads and uphill.

Because of the aluminum factor, I've been looking at lower-powered systems (350-500watt) for the rear wheel in a moderate voltage (36v or 48v) and small(ish) 10ah batteries.

I've already decided on Ping for the batteries, assuming they are compatible with the hub motor I should use.

I live in Portland so the most available kit (can buy locally) is the Ebikekit geared or DD, or the eZee geared.

I'm looking for 20mph give or take - I have 700c wheels, weigh 190lbs, carrying less than 35lbs (groceries, gear, etc).

If you have the budget, definitely get the 48V battery. Even those who were happy with 36V, when they tried out a friends bike with 48V after a while, they always liked it better.

If you are certain you won't want to go over 26-MPH in the future, I'd recommend the eZee geared motor from ebikes.ca

Justin has the best customer service in the industry. Due to the high torque, I would recommend two stainless-steel torque arms, and you should be fine in spite of the aluminum frame.

shoblime said:

...Because of the aluminum factor, I've been looking at lower-powered systems ...

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If you build with a hub motor, you will have to do the dropouts or torque arms anyway, even if it is low power.

Thus, if you want to climb hills, build it properly and feed it the power that makes it interesting.

Thanks guys!

I was planning on doing a torque arm and dropout strengthening sounds like a good preventative measure.

Looks like I will probably be going for 48V, the eZee pricing is a little hard to swallow at almost twice the cost of similar systems.

Are they really that superior? What is comparable? BMC is around the same price as well.

You will definitely enjoy the Ute, I love mine! If you have the disc brake version, I strongly recommend 26 inch wheels. Now don't fool yourself into thinking you'll be okay forever with 20-22mph. Why not get a setup that can get you to 30mph? Most bigger geared motors (BMC, eZee, Bafang BPM, MAC) can do that at 48V comfortably and still climb well, if you get the correct speed motor.

Hmm. Low power, 400w, wants to climb hills loaded. How long you been reading here? A torque device of some kind should be fitted to one side of the motor at least, even for low power systems. Weak gearmotors still have a good pull from a dead stop because of the gears.

Will work fine if you want to climb wimpy hills. At about 5% grade the low power rigs start slowing down enough to make lots of heat. Don't get me wrong, you can climb 10% on such motors but you better like pedaling hard. Bog em down too slow, below 15 mph and heat is made. Below 10 mph, LOTS of heat.

It's all relative, I can't really say the kit will be too underpowered unless I have a lot more details about your fitness, how steep and how long are the hills, and what you expect.

One bit of advice though, increase the budget to a 15 ah ping or similar battery. With a 10 you are stuck with using a low watt motor. In the 3-5 years that battery should last, you ARE going to decide that 1000w would be real nice. But you'll be stuck with a battery too small. Get the 15ah, and you'll enjoy huge range with the slower motor, and be able to make a motor upgrade later if you wish. A 10 ah A123 battery would be fine, it's got a lot higher max amps.

If a tight budget is a concern, the affordable option is a kit from cell_man. He is a well-known vendor here. His prices are cheaper because he is a direct shipper from China. Here is the geared rear hub-motor I recommend based on your response (500W MAC):

http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i22.html

Here is a recent build with that motor @ 48V:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25889

For a cargo bike using a geared motor, it is very helpful to add a Cycleanalyst (CA), for the reasons posted here (they are well-known and highly recommended):
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26413&start=90#p485462

spinningmagnets said:

If a tight budget is a concern, the affordable option is a kit from cell_man. He is a well-known vendor here. His prices are cheaper because he is a direct shipper from China. Here is the geared rear hub-motor I recommend based on your response (500W MAC):

http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i22.html

Here is a recent build with that motor @ 48V:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25889

Click to expand...

+1



Justin at Ebikes.ca for the geared Ezee, or Jason at Ebikekits.com for a direct drive are both good options, but the MAC and a 48V 15ah ping are what you need.

I've seen Kona utes with 26" balloon tires, and they're even better than the original, but my favorite Kona Ute so far had 24" rims and something like 3" fat tires. Its a great bike

I hope I/we didn't scare you off. What kind of performance are you looking for? 10k rides, 50k rides, steep hills? The lightweight rigs I critisized are fine if the hills are short enough, or shallow enough.

dogman said:

Hmm. Low power, 400w, wants to climb hills loaded. How long you been reading here? A torque device of some kind should be fitted to one side of the motor at least, even for low power systems. Weak gearmotors still have a good pull from a dead stop because of the gears.

Will work fine if you want to climb wimpy hills. At about 5% grade the low power rigs start slowing down enough to make lots of heat. Don't get me wrong, you can climb 10% on such motors but you better like pedaling hard. Bog em down too slow, below 15 mph and heat is made. Below 10 mph, LOTS of heat.

It's all relative, I can't really say the kit will be too underpowered unless I have a lot more details about your fitness, how steep and how long are the hills, and what you expect.

One bit of advice though, increase the budget to a 15 ah ping or similar battery. With a 10 you are stuck with using a low watt motor. In the 3-5 years that battery should last, you ARE going to decide that 1000w would be real nice. But you'll be stuck with a battery too small. Get the 15ah, and you'll enjoy huge range with the slower motor, and be able to make a motor upgrade later if you wish. A 10 ah A123 battery would be fine, it's got a lot higher max amps.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. I guess you've answered these questions for people seeking THE ULTIMATE SYSTEM to fly up a hill for less than $500 too many times, I assure you I'm not that person and to be honest I think I made that fairly clear in my original post.

To clarify, I don't consider 20mph and *35lbs* of gear to be "heavily loaded," (that's 225lbs + the weight of the bike and system total) especially considering a taller/heavier person would weigh as much as me+the intended load put together. We aren't talking an extra hundred pounds of load and the bike has an extended wheelbase.

I'm of moderate fitness (I work in a very physical field) the hills I need to use are more long and sloping (might be just as bad for cool-down) than super-steep.

I do have the budget for a 48v 15ah pack, depending on the motor & controller (looking at ~$1200 total)

I'm not against a more powerful system, I just don't want to damage or weaken the bike too much.

Drunkskunk said:

spinningmagnets said:

If a tight budget is a concern, the affordable option is a kit from cell_man. He is a well-known vendor here. His prices are cheaper because he is a direct shipper from China. Here is the geared rear hub-motor I recommend based on your response (500W MAC):

http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i22.html

Here is a recent build with that motor @ 48V:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25889

Click to expand...

+1



Justin at Ebikes.ca for the geared Ezee, or Jason at Ebikekits.com for a direct drive are both good options, but the MAC and a 48V 15ah ping are what you need.


I've seen Kona utes with 26" balloon tires, and they're even better than the original, but my favorite Kona Ute so far had 24" rims and something like 3" fat tires. Its a great bike

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What width 26" tires have people been using? I would be very interested in switching over, to be honest I wasn't sure it was possible. Can the disc brakes be retained?

Since it has disk brakes, the tire size is unimportant for braking since the hub is the same. I don't know exact details of what rims or size they used, but these Utes were all over Key West this spring, along with Surly Big Dummy's. The locals use bikes. Beach cruiser tires were the norm down there. the 26" tire size is only dependant on the width of the fork.

Live in Portland also. Just because you have an aluminum frame does not mean you have to skimp on power. I run a BMC 600w at 66V 45 amp controller and have never had a problem. Yes, I do have a torque arm on one side. Most of the 500W DD motors run at 48V will give you 20mph+. Go here to check things out http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator/ My first build was a 500W36V DD Goldenmotor. With the upgrade to 48V I climbed MT Tabor with no problem and never broke a sweat.
Don't be in a hurry research and do lots of reading here. PM me if you need help.

shoblime said:

What width 26" tires have people been using? I would be very interested in switching over, to be honest I wasn't sure it was possible. Can the disc brakes be retained?

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Are you sure your UTE has 26" tires?
The Kona website specs Continental CityContact 700C x 47 tires for the 2010 UTE.
It's a good tire for city riding and if you're watching your budget, spend your money elsewhere.
Replace the tires later or as necessary. Perhaps invest in puncture proofed inner tubes.

The ISO size is the only way to determine what's on there now.
622 ISO can be referred to as 28" or 29" as well as 700C
559 ISO is one of many sizes popularly called 26".

The Schwalbe Big Apple is available in several sizes.
That's what I run on my Xtracycle (26"X 2.3") The extra cushion is noticeable without additional rolling resistance.

Zoot Katz said:

shoblime said:

What width 26" tires have people been using? I would be very interested in switching over, to be honest I wasn't sure it was possible. Can the disc brakes be retained?

Click to expand...

Are you sure your UTE has 26" tires?
The Kona website specs Continental CityContact 700C x 47 tires for the UTE.
It's a good tire for city riding and if you're watching your budget, spend your money elsewhere.
Replace the tires later or as necessary. Perhaps invest in puncture proofed inner tubes.

The ISO size is the only way to determine what's on there now.
622 ISO can be referred to as 28" or 29" as well as 700C
559 ISO is one of many sizes popularly called 26".

The Schwalbe Big Apple is available in several sizes.
That's what I run on my Xtracycle (26"X 2.3") The extra cushion is noticeable without additional rolling resistance.

Click to expand...

I said that in response to a previous post by Drunkskunk who mentioned that many people DO switch the Ute to 26" wheels from the factory 700c for better ride/more loadhandling.

My Ute DOES have 700c wheels.

If I took them off, I would use the wheels on my other roadbike (which has terrible, terrible wheels on it now) so there wouldn't be a huge loss in that regard.

Going to a smaller diameter rim will lower your crank and put your pedals closer to the ground. Mounting an appropriately wider and taller tire can make up for half of that loss as well as help out with a smoother ride as others have stated. I have some Hookworms that took a 24inch rim up to 25inches so closer to the 26 it should be if it were in the stock bike form.

shoblime said:

I said that in response to a previous post by Drunkskunk who mentioned that many people DO switch the Ute to 26" wheels from the factory 700c for better ride/more loadhandling.

My Ute DOES have 700c wheels.

If I took them off, I would use the wheels on my other roadbike (which has terrible, terrible wheels on it now) so there wouldn't be a huge loss in that regard.

Click to expand...

oops, I missed the point about your wanting to change wheel size.
The rims and build quality of most factory built hub motor wheels sorta sux, generally.
If you're building custom wheels then you can get better rims and spokes which are never a bad investment.

So as of now it's looking more like:

MAC Geared 500 watt motor (rear)
48V 15ah ping battery
possible 26" conversion for wider tires

shoblime said:

So as of now it's looking more like:

MAC Geared 500 watt motor (rear)
48V 15ah ping battery
possible 26" conversion for wider tires

Click to expand...

700C is available in 55mm width.
Wider than that and fenders don't cover them.

I'm running 700x60 Schwalbe Big Apples on my Karate Monkey, and the Planet Bike Cascadia fenders just barely clear them. The 700x50's are available too.

Personally I like the big wheels for hitting potholes & cracks in the road at speed in the dark. Smoother ride. But I bet the lower CG with 26's would be nice too... have fun whatever you do.

Once you're done, and you're finally pleased with the results...if theres still any money left in the cookie jar, perhaps consider a $120 Thudbuster seat-post. It sounds like a lot for just a seat post, but they work fantastic and will last for decades...

If you are deciding between the Thudbuster or a Cycle-analyst, get the Cycle-analyst, because it can prevent the motor and controller from overheating on a hill thats a little steeper and longer than what you're used to...

Thanks!

I definitely plan on a cycle analyst down the road, right now my main commute has no hills whatsoever.

I might stay with these tires until one or the other set I have wear out, definitely want to go as wide as I can for safety.

We have these nasty streetcar tracks that suck in narrow tires....

26 wheels with 2,35 fat franks (same casing as big apples) are great. Lower COG and I'm not hitting the ground unless i pedal intentionally under radical lean. Been pushing 55V / 70A thru the rear end wirh only a single torque arm, no problem. Extremely stable at speed too. I carry the battery in one of the stock panniers, it's not ideal but works.

I guess I was a bit moody yesterday, I apologize. Yep, I have replied to too many who wanted 20 mph, while climbing the hill without pedaling.

Seriously, we have also have had a ton of new members start with a post that goes, " I bought a 350w gearmotor and 10 ah battery, Now what do I do to get up my 16% grade driveway to my house, and how do I get 25 miles range out of my battery? "

Uhhhh, you dont get either from that kit. Bummer some sellers promises those lies. So I and others do really try to push people towards a bit more range, and a bit more amps in thier battery choice. Then try to find out if they do indeed need to get up 16%. If the hills are above 5%, I will start discouraging the sub 400w gearmotors like the bafang and cute.

So now you are on a better track for an ebike with a much wider use envelope, not so much for top speed, but maintaining that 20 mph target into a headwind much better, getting up a long, or steep hill with less motor overheating, and best of all, some extra range you can tap by slowing down to lower wattage. You have a throttle, so you can choose to ride sub 400w anytime. But really nice that day you ride into 40 mph headwind to have 800-1000w.

35 pounds doesn't sound like a lot of weight, but with any hill involved it matters, so another good reason to have some power on the hills when you do need it.

The Mac motor in the slower winding is a great choice for a gearmotor for a bike with big panniers. Another good choice if you'd prefer a direct drive motor is a slower winding 9 continent. I have that on my longtail. Right now those are only avaliable from Methods in the for sale section. Look for the "wife kit" 20 mph at 48v. Really good hill motor.