First ebike encounter with LA Police.

oatnet

oatnet

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Apr 26, 2007
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SoCal, USA
My wife and I were riding our tidalforce io’s on the local beach bike path last night, when a pair of local police officers riding the sand on quads (nice duty!) rode by, pointed at us, and then veered over to us waving. This began our first ever ebike-police encounter.

I ride the TF on the beach specifically because it is a legal bike in California, according to the local laws it is just the legal equivalent of an unpowered bike UNLESS there are overriding local laws. I haven’t found any local laws like this, but I am always worried about it anyhow, so I was sure these officers were going to kick us off the bike path.

As they pulled up, one asked me ‘How far will that go?”. Heck, they didn’t want to give me a rough time, they were just curious! I answered a few questions about the bikes, mentioned how I have lost a good bit of weight riding (one officer jibed his partner about his weight), then they waved and rolled on down the beach. It was great! I am sorry I didn’t think to offer them a ride – I am sure they would have loved it, and I am trying to make a good ebike impression everywhere I go. Maybe next time!

-JD
 
Whatever you do don't volunteer the true speed.
Hem & haw saying stuf like 'well depends' & if they persist then you know you're being pumped for info.
'no faster than 20 mph' is the pat answer (even tho it's 30 in Calif.)
And for god's sake put some electrical tape over the turbo button b4 lending it out on a test spin.
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
And for god's sake put some electrical tape over the turbo button b4 lending it out on a test spin.
Click to expand...

:D :D :D

In CA, an electric bike can do up to 20mph assisted, and an electric moped (pedals optional) can do up to 30mph. The ebike is classified as a bicycle and can be ridden in bike lanes, bike paths, some sidewalks, but the e-moped is strictly a road vehicle. The e-moped requires an M2 license/tag/turn signals, the e-bike the only requirement is to to be 16. Bottom line, about any fool is permitted to ride a 20mph ebike anywhere, but there is much more restriction on the 30mph emoped.

Luckily our io's aren't "x" bikes, so they are speed limited to 19.5mph in turbo and regen kicks in if you try to go faster. I ride the TF at the beach because they are CA legal and 20mph is more than enough for my beach path needs anyhow. Plus it is advertising - it is obviously an electric bike, and it plants the idea in people's minds that ebikes are HERE, and FUNCTIONAL, and FUN! My... um... faster :D bikes are more stealthy, and barring obstacles, keep mostly on the road. They also change from 72v to 36v (serial/parallel packs) depending on the 'key' you insert <grin> so on those I most certainly would take your advice!

JD
 
I don't know where I got the impression but for some reason I thought you had TFX's.
For now I'm perfectly content with my 20mph limited top speed for the same reason, the peace of mind that I won't get hassled & can go anywhere & everywhere I did b4.
 
That's awsome !

My brother in law is an RCMP, we don't hang out, but once in a blue moon i drop in for a visit..

I sent him off on my Norco ( 72v 20a, 409 in 20" rim ), he went for a km or 2 and came back all smiles, even suggested i might sell a few to the station for the pedal-cops once everthing gets " figured out " ..

No worries about going slightly over speed-limit, :p , or issues about no ebrakes, etc.. as long as you follow the rules of the road and ride responsibly, have fun !

The way it should be.
 
It's a good thing you brought this discussion/ thread up. I recently posted a thread in the battery technology forum. I've been riding my ebike since last year and I have been given alot of compliments on the practicality, power, and other better reasons to ride in my ebike.

My department have decided to look into the ebike set up. We have debated for the longest time if having an ebike would be beneficial to the department. We have looked into a ready made ebike, but lack the power we wanted. So to further complicate things, They have decided to look into my set-up, which is a conversion kit (Crystalyte 7240 Pheonix Brute with 84v of LiMn set-up. Given the legalities and the law, I felt compelled to tell the truth on the power of my ebike and knowing what the consequences may be(like confiscate my ebike :cry: ).

I have limited knowledge in ebike technology, but I am mechanically inclined. Low and behold, they have decided that I should be the test subject in getting the department an ebike. Well, it's good for me because now they would have to pay for my expense and cost of my conversion kit. :D. To be continued...
 
Don't they usually make unrestricted versions of e-bikes for the law? - I am sure I have come across some police edition e-bikes on some web sites. Battery life would be an issue I would think -if you guys are out there all day. I think the more police with e-bikes the better! Good luck.
 
SF1901 said:
Low and behold, they have decided that I should be the test subject in getting the department an ebike. Well, it's good for me because now they would have to pay for my expense and cost of my conversion kit. :D. To be continued...
Click to expand...

Well that's bad for the rest of us.
The sooner the polis are up to speed (both figuratively & literally) on the ins & outs on ebikes then the good times will be over.
Same thing happened once radar detectors became legal.
While the coppers were ignorant of the technology available they were glowing in the dark 24/7, then they adjusted once they became aware of their ignorance & overconfidence.
You can then forget about 'stealth' or flying under the radar cuz they'll see right thru it once they know what to look for.
 
Johnbear said:
Don't they usually make unrestricted versions of e-bikes for the law? - I am sure I have come across some police edition e-bikes on some web sites. Battery life would be an issue I would think -if you guys are out there all day. I think the more police with e-bikes the better! Good luck.
Click to expand...

The barrier that hinders us from having an unrestricted version is liability. Yes, we have to comply with the law unless we can persuade congress or anyone with the power to change the law to revise it. Not unless we can sell our department that criminals are becoming faster and are building more endurance from the new drugs (steroids, x-meth, HGH) and energy drinks that their taking.

As far as liability and the law, we also have to look into the factor of maintaining a fleet, a contracted bike repair shop and certified bike mechanics for liability once again, policy and procedure revision, a new unit for the program, resources from other departments, budget, etc..

In all fairness, we have to consider that riding an e-bike is a great alternative to auto vehicles and that we have to be more linient to the e-riders. Atleast I would, with a verbal warning to ride within the speed limit. And I think going 25-30 mph with your e-bike in the city street is fast enough.
 
You may have seen this bike. I think it has a hienzman motor. Same bike, the frame looks ok, but I'd ditch the lead! Maybe a custom battery pack!

http://hovey-ebikes.ebizautos.com/detail-2001-e~bike-36_volt-police_edition-2820.html

http://www.ebike.co.uk/PE.htm
 
SF1901 said:
Johnbear said:
Don't they usually make unrestricted versions of e-bikes for the law? - I am sure I have come across some police edition e-bikes on some web sites. Battery life would be an issue I would think -if you guys are out there all day. I think the more police with e-bikes the better! Good luck.
Click to expand...

The barrier that hinders us from having an unrestricted version is liability. Yes, we have to comply with the law unless we can persuade congress or anyone with the power to change the law to revise it. Not unless we can sell our department that criminals are becoming faster and are building more endurance from the new drugs (steroids, x-meth, HGH) and energy drinks that their taking.

As far as liability and the law, we also have to look into the factor of maintaining a fleet, a contracted bike repair shop and certified bike mechanics for liability once again, policy and procedure revision, a new unit for the program, resources from other departments, budget, etc..

In all fairness, we have to consider that riding an e-bike is a great alternative to auto vehicles and that we have to be more linient to the e-riders. Atleast I would, with a verbal warning to ride within the speed limit. And I think going 25-30 mph with your e-bike in the city street is fast enough.
Click to expand...

What about being able to ride on roads with a speed limit in the 35-40 range, and keep up with traffic? That is a big part of the draw for me, since I couldn't do that on an ordinary bike...
 
Ypedal said:
Have you ever gone 40 mph on a bicycle before ?

Even with full suspension and disk brakes to take the punishment.. 30 mph...... 35.... and i'm as fast as i feel comfortable at...

at 40 mph.. you have to lean to turn !!! :shock:
Click to expand...

Well, yes... going down hills. I think it was around 50 that my road bike starts to really wobble. That was a very disconcerting feeling, and I would probably want to slow down to make a turn. I certainly wouldn't mind doing 40 on a straightaway with a good set of disk brakes though.

The hard part would be throwing away that speed when slowing down or stopping, only to try and build it right back up when you get going again. When energy comes at such a premium, both from the rider and the battery, you think about that kind of thing much more than in a car.
 
Cops are just people, theres going to be some easy going ones, and a few jerks. I can't say I'm surprised at how they reacted though, the only people who ever give me a hard time are non-E bicyclists. I ride the beach bike path around here, and I do see signs posted all over that say "motorized bicycles prohibited" but I'm not sure if that means gassers or all of them. I thought it meant all of them.
 
Ypedal said:
Have you ever gone 40 mph on a bicycle before ?
Click to expand...
:arrow: I've done 52 mph as my best. (solid as a rock)

Actually... speaking of police... I was on a downhill speed run once and passed a cop going the other way while going about 50 mph and for whatever reason the guy didn't turn around and chase me.

If when you see a cop you quickly slow down they sometimes will adjust what they think is happening in their mind and just forget about it. It's when you are going 50 mph and they see you and you see them and you still don't at least try to show some respect that they will jump on your punk ass. :lol:

As a rule... respect, respect, respect. :wink:

Police feel uneasy when disrespected and comfortable when respected.

Show it and they will not react badly towards you...
 
safe said:
Ypedal said:
Have you ever gone 40 mph on a bicycle before ?
Click to expand...
:arrow: I've done 52 mph as my best. (solid as a rock)

Actually... speaking of police... I was on a downhill speed run once and passed a cop going the other way while going about 50 mph and for whatever reason the guy didn't turn around and chase me.

If when you see a cop you quickly slow down they sometimes will adjust what they think is happening in their mind and just forget about it. It's when you are going 50 mph and they see you and you see them and you still don't at least try to show some respect that they will jump on your punk ass. :lol:

As a rule... respect, respect, respect. :wink:

Police feel uneasy when disrespected and comfortable when respected.

Show it and they will not react badly towards you...
Click to expand...

Well said, and V. ice said "there will be some easy going ones and some jerks," respect the road just like any regular vehicle so as to not get notice. Even if you're going 35-40 mph on an open road and when you see them take the time to slow down a notch, wave and smile. Even if we see an e-bike, we wouldn't have any intention to stop one, if you don't give any attention and reason to stop you. In my city, we have better things to do than stop an e-biker going over the speed of limit (let alone finding the vehicle code for a citation and showing up to court for it ). to be continued....

In my case, if you make it uncomfortable for me, I'll take the time and give you a field sobriety test. one leg up and balance your bike and walk in a straight line. :D
 
SF1901 said:
Johnbear said:
And I think going 25-30 mph with your e-bike in the city street is fast enough.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Well--yes and no. It's fast enough to often be quite practical and enjoyable, but reasonably safe because most crashes at 25-30 mph are quite survivable (especially with a helmet but I'll suppress my off topic libertarian values right now ;)). But there ARE cases where more speed is safer. I have several sections of road on my commute where it is simply too dangerous to not "take the lane." In some cases, it's safer to accelerate to traffic flow speeds--even if the traffic is speeding. Unfortunately, my bike tops out at 30 mph (with pedaling) and I must either annoy drivers who want to go 35 or 40 or 45 or so (annoying them has its own set of risks because THEY often react with really dumb behaviors) or risk having them squeeze me against the side the road. And this is one of the problems with traffic laws--personal judgment is usually not accommodated to any significant degree (Oops--my libertarian values are sneaking in a bit there!)

-Cal
 
calinb said:
SF1901 said:
Johnbear said:
And I think going 25-30 mph with your e-bike in the city street is fast enough.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Well--yes and no. It's fast enough to often be quite practical and enjoyable, but reasonably safe because most crashes at 25-30 mph are quite survivable (especially with a helmet but I'll suppress my off topic libertarian values right now ;)). But there ARE cases where more speed is safer I have several sections of road on my commute where it is simply too dangerous to not "take the lane." In some cases, it's safer to accelerate to traffic flow speeds--even if the traffic is speeding. Unfortunately, my bike tops out at 30 mph (with pedaling) and I must either annoy drivers who want to go 35 or 40 or 45 or so (annoying them has its own set of risks because THEY often react with really dumb behaviors) or risk having them squeeze me against the side the road.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I would much rather be able to keep up with traffic. Obviously not highway traffic, but if the bike could comfortably do 40 for a reasonably long stretch, that would make it much more usable for a crosstown commute.
 
Charlie said:
calinb said:
Well--yes and no. It's fast enough to often be quite practical and enjoyable, but reasonably safe because most crashes at 25-30 mph are quite survivable (especially with a helmet but I'll suppress my off topic libertarian values right now ;)). But there ARE cases where more speed is safer I have several sections of road on my commute where it is simply too dangerous to not "take the lane." In some cases, it's safer to accelerate to traffic flow speeds--even if the traffic is speeding. Unfortunately, my bike tops out at 30 mph (with pedaling) and I must either annoy drivers who want to go 35 or 40 or 45 or so (annoying them has its own set of risks because THEY often react with really dumb behaviors) or risk having them squeeze me against the side the road.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I would much rather be able to keep up with traffic. Obviously not highway traffic, but if the bike could comfortably do 40 for a reasonably long stretch, that would make it much more usable for a crosstown commute.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm all for it. Going with the speed of traffic is fine with me. I also understand that picking up your speed would be safer. Out in the open with speed limit 35-40 mph, I'll let my ebike fly like it was Indy 500. My bike can go 40+, but when the speed limit is 25 mph I'll stay within that range (maybe 5+ give or take), but if youre're in a 25mph and you're going 40 for a "long stretch"? Then you put it upon yourself, it's just like any other vehicle getting a ticket. Just be safe out there.
 
SF1901 said:
Charlie said:
calinb said:
Well--yes and no. It's fast enough to often be quite practical and enjoyable, but reasonably safe because most crashes at 25-30 mph are quite survivable (especially with a helmet but I'll suppress my off topic libertarian values right now ;)). But there ARE cases where more speed is safer I have several sections of road on my commute where it is simply too dangerous to not "take the lane." In some cases, it's safer to accelerate to traffic flow speeds--even if the traffic is speeding. Unfortunately, my bike tops out at 30 mph (with pedaling) and I must either annoy drivers who want to go 35 or 40 or 45 or so (annoying them has its own set of risks because THEY often react with really dumb behaviors) or risk having them squeeze me against the side the road.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I would much rather be able to keep up with traffic. Obviously not highway traffic, but if the bike could comfortably do 40 for a reasonably long stretch, that would make it much more usable for a crosstown commute.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm all for it. Going with the speed of traffic is fine with me. I also understand that picking up your speed would be safer. Out in the open with speed limit 35-40 mph, I'll let my ebike fly like it was Indy 500. My bike can go 40+, but when the speed limit is 25 mph I'll stay within that range (maybe 5+ give or take), but if youre're in a 25mph and you're going 40 for a "long stretch"? Then you put it upon yourself, it's just like any other vehicle getting a ticket. Just be safe out there.
Click to expand...

Well obviously going faster than the speed limit for cars is asking for it!
 
I don't know if it has already been stated in this thread, but California law specifically states that any e-bike less than 30MPH and less than 1,000W are bicycles for all legal intents. Stay below those limits and no local jurisdiction can differentiate between your e-bike and a standard human powered bicycle.

(standard disclaimer applies :) )
 
OneEye said:
I don't know if it has already been stated in this thread, but California law specifically states that any e-bike less than 30MPH and less than 1,000W are bicycles for all legal intents. Stay below those limits and no local jurisdiction can differentiate between your e-bike and a standard human powered bicycle.

(standard disclaimer applies :) )
Click to expand...
I believe that you are in error. It my understanding that the limits were is 20 Mph and 750 Watts to be the same as a standard human powered bicycle. See this quote from earlier in the thread

oatnet said:
In CA, an electric bike can do up to 20mph assisted, and an electric moped (pedals optional) can do up to 30mph. The ebike is classified as a bicycle and can be ridden in bike lanes, bike paths, some sidewalks, but the e-moped is strictly a road vehicle. The e-moped requires an M2 license/tag/turn signals, the e-bike the only requirement is to to be 16. Bottom line, about any fool is permitted to ride a 20mph ebike anywhere, but there is much more restriction on the 30mph emoped
Click to expand...
 
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