New crystalyte motor - G series

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wollbs   1 µW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by wollbs » Jul 26 2013 12:00am

I just bought one of these G-Series also from Ilia. I'm going to build it up as the rear 26" wheel on my recumbent, but I dont really know where to start...there is not alot of info out there on the G-series. I am planning ~48V 15-20Ah battery...no clue on the controller. Mostly flat commute 15 miles each way, total bike/person weight of 220 lbs...hoping to cruise ~25mph. Any suggestions on controller brand/type and source? battery?
Thanks,
Brandon
first e-bike build
Currently Building:
Haluzak Horizon SWB USS Recumbent, 24 speed, 20" front rim with suspension
w/ Amped geared motor on 26" Rear Rim
Ping 48V 15 Ah mounted under the seat (ordering from ping soon)
Commuter 12 mile each way, mostly flat

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ambroseliao   100 kW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by ambroseliao » Jul 26 2013 12:17am

I would not recommend the G motor for your first build. It's an odd motor. That it is small and has very unusual spokes with unusual geometries is only the beginning. If you want to use it for a 26" wheel, you will need to find the unusual spokes and a 26" rim to use with it. It may not be easy.

You can use any decent controller from Lyen or ebikes.ca. You can also use a Crystalyte controller. The electronics of the motor are not unusual.
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

wollbs   1 µW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by wollbs » Jul 26 2013 10:11am

I was afraid that maybe this motor would be tough to build up into a wheel. Does anyone have any suggestions on a resource to help me acquire the right spokes and give my wheel builder the necessary information to put it together. I actually live near enough to sfbikes, could they help with this aspect of the build?
Currently Building:
Haluzak Horizon SWB USS Recumbent, 24 speed, 20" front rim with suspension
w/ Amped geared motor on 26" Rear Rim
Ping 48V 15 Ah mounted under the seat (ordering from ping soon)
Commuter 12 mile each way, mostly flat

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ambroseliao   100 kW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by ambroseliao » Jul 26 2013 10:19am

Ilia would be a great resource!
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

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The Stig   100 kW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by The Stig » Jul 26 2013 10:27am

I would keep it in the 20 inch wheel if it all possible. It would be more efficient, powerful etc

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by ambroseliao » Jul 27 2013 9:27am

Got the G motor today. Here are some pix.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/dr4x11k8fhr0s0j/y3Y5QZo-LU

It arrived very quickly. The motor is very light. The box had puncture holes where the axle poked through the box. It came in a nice Crystalyte fabric bag. It has high quality gold bullet connectors and a unique (to me) halls connector. Not sure how i'm going to use that halls connector. i will probably replace it. The spokes are one hole off so the air valve hole might be hard to reach with a normal pump head. The packing foam shredded into many large and small pieces and goes everywhere when you open the box. So far, I'm impressed! Will try to hook it up and see how it functions.

Anyone know a source for 26" spokes that have the funky 45° bend?
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by miro13car » Jul 27 2013 9:47am

Ambrose,
how are you.
I look forward to read how you install, connect that motor.
But most of all how it performs comparing to the golden standard of Tidal Force performance.
About spoking wheel, I don't know where people find so easly bike shops agreeing to spoke wheel to electric motor just like that.
Where I live it is not so easy to find bike shop to even true ebike wheel, let alone spoking, they don't know how to charge for that, I offered more money of course, every installer scoffs at even lifting heavy wheel. And that standard bicycle wheel with el motor.
Weird CHINA design only makes it much more complicated regardless what other might say.

Ambrose, please provide link to your blog at the bottom of your post.

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by skeetab5780 » Jul 27 2013 9:55am

nice that shipped quick, mine is on the way. half way across the US right now.

Almost every motor I ever ordered had an axle thru the box upon delivery, I think the only company that didn't was Ebikekit but that's because they are 1 state away from me.

Those spoke lengths scare me. Ill probably mid mount anyway

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ambroseliao   100 kW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by ambroseliao » Jul 27 2013 10:37am

miro13car wrote:Ambrose,
how are you.
I look forward to read how you install, connect that motor.
But most of all how it performs comparing to the golden standard of Tidal Force performance.
About spoking wheel, I don't know where people find so easly bike shops agreeing to spoke wheel to electric motor just like that.
Where I live it is not so easy to find bike shop to even true ebike wheel, let alone spoking, they don't know how to charge for that, I offered more money of course, every installer scoffs at even lifting heavy wheel. And that standard bicycle wheel with el motor.
Weird CHINA design only makes it much more complicated regardless what other might say.

Ambrose, please provide link to your blog at the bottom of your post.
I don't bother with bike shops truing wheels any more. I had an ebike shop try to true one once even they botched it bad. I borrow my neighbors Park tools TS-2 truing stand and do it myself.

I've got a million projects right now. But since this is new... :mrgreen:

My blog is in my sig. I just received a complete (but dead) E+ motor to play with too!
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

miro13car   1 MW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by miro13car » Jul 27 2013 10:55am

I must admit, I like reading your blog and those high quality pictures, it reletes to my TF . Very rare that you can find anything to read about real experience and projects on Tidal Force.
Dead Eplus motor?
Just the motor itself?
Maybe I am cheating myself, but if I derestrected my 500W TF , powered it with A123 20Ah cells , I would prefer riding TF all year.

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DISH   10 W

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by DISH » Jul 29 2013 1:16am

Two questions I have not seen covered here:

1 - Anyone know the ERD (Effective Rim Diameter) of the 20 inch wheel that comes laced to this motor or if you have one in front of you, can you measure it?
Gwheel.JPG
Gwheel.JPG (243.31 KiB) Viewed 2824 times
2 - Anyone have the pinouts of the hall sensor connector?
Gconn.JPG
Gconn.JPG (52.82 KiB) Viewed 2824 times
THANKS
........Q
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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by skeetab5780 » Jul 31 2013 6:29pm

Got my motor today! This thing is pretty slick. Shipping was fast and the axle was not sticking thru the side of the box! Its was even in a fancy xlyte grey bag.

I dont know what connector the hall sensors use but im just gonna lop it off and get it wired up

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by ambroseliao » Jul 31 2013 6:48pm

I wrote to Ilia about that 5 pin connector and whether or not he has controllers that can directly plug into this motor. He replied...

"Hi Ambrose,

We have Crystalyte controllers that are plug and play with this motor, analog 6 fet, 20A, 24-72V $ 45,
digital 6 fet, 20A, 36-48V $ 65, or we could rewire an Infineon 6 fet 20-22A controller (controller plus connectors and wiring $132).

Best,
ilia"

I'll see if he has any of the connectors by themselves.
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

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DISH   10 W

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by DISH » Aug 02 2013 3:38pm

NOTE: Edited photos so they display properly...

First Power UP Test...

Motors arrived with the traditional '-axle sticking out of the box-'.
800w01.GIF
800w01.GIF (204.63 KiB) Viewed 2753 times
^^^ Nut came VERY CLOSE to falling off during shipment !!!
800w02.GIF
800w02.GIF (105.18 KiB) Viewed 2753 times
White wire hanging out of wiring harness?
Motor (NO LOAD) spinning at ~520 RPM @ 64.0 vdc and drawing 57 watts.

Video of motor NO LOAD spin up showing wheel wobble > http://www.k3pgp.org/video/800w_0245.divx (~607 KB)

Controller used for tests = BMS battery running SENSORLESS, (only three leads hooked to motor).

There is practically NO COGGING effect noticeable on either motor I received, just a bit harder to turn than a non-motorized wheel.
Last edited by DISH on Aug 03 2013 2:05am, edited 1 time in total.
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ambroseliao   100 kW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by ambroseliao » Aug 02 2013 3:48pm

Ilia also has the special 5 pin connectors available separately.

I believe you can reach him at his website:
http://ebikessf.com/contact
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

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ambroseliao   100 kW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by ambroseliao » Aug 02 2013 3:51pm

Dish,

Nothing happens when I click the link to the video...

http://www.k3pgp.org/video/800w_0245.divx
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

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DISH   10 W

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by DISH » Aug 02 2013 4:39pm

ambroseliao wrote:Dish,

Nothing happens when I click the link to the video...

http://www.k3pgp.org/video/800w_0245.divx
This is NOT a YouTube video. It's a file on my website.

The link works.

Unfortunately, video files are forbidden on Endless Sphere.

You need to DOWNLOAD the video and save it to your hard drive.

You also need a player that is capable of playing DIVX video files, such as VLC.
........Q
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DISH   10 W

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by DISH » Aug 02 2013 4:46pm

Axle on each side of the motor is a different diameter, different thread and each requires a different nut !!!
800w_006.JPG
Photo showing thread diameter and flat side diameter on each side of motor.
........Q
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DISH   10 W

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by DISH » Aug 02 2013 6:06pm

To anyone needing ERD for this rim:

I remeasured the rim and realized I forgot to add on 12mm x 2 for the nipples I used. :shock:

Corrected ERD is ~375 mm.

I have corrected the figures in the following post:
=====
For anyone wishing to lace the rim to something else you will need to know the ERD (Effective Rim Diameter) which I calculate to be ~375 mm. <This is CLOSE but probably not exact (+/- 1 mm) considering I was in a hurry when I did the measurements. I'll do it again before ordering spokes when I reuse the rim.
800w_erd.JPG
800w_erd.JPG (232.94 KiB) Viewed 2762 times
Notice the BENT SPOKES that I removed from the wheel as received.

This has to be the worst installation of a rim to a hub motor that I've ever seen. But that was reported in the auction, so no disappointment there. Fortunately, I had NO intention of using the system as received.

The rim is going to be laced to another hub (which is why I needed to know the ERD) and the motor is going to be used with NO wheel laced to it....

I did not bother to measure the spokes but could do so if someone needs that info. It might come in handy if you plan to lace the motor into a different rim or try to re-lace the existing rim to this motor...
........Q
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DISH   10 W

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by DISH » Aug 03 2013 12:45am

DISH wrote:To anyone needing ERD for this rim:

I remeasured the rim and realized I forgot to add on 12mm x 2 for the nipples I used. :shock:

Corrected ERD is ~375 mm.
Using the above figures I was able to lace the '-TOPGUN-' rim to a Bionx motor. Both radial and 1X pattern were tested and the spoke length was as expected as demonstrated in the following photo...
800w_rim.JPG
800w_rim.JPG (226.39 KiB) Viewed 2753 times
The Bionx motor had the internal controller removed from it 4 or 5 years ago. It now has about 4000 miles on it running at the 2 to 3 KW level with no problems other than the rim being damaged (cracked) which is why I re-laced it to the '-TOPGUN-' rim...
........Q
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DISH   10 W

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by DISH » Aug 04 2013 11:35am

skeetab5780 wrote:Got my motor today! This thing is pretty slick. Shipping was fast and the axle was not sticking thru the side of the box! Its was even in a fancy xlyte grey bag.

I dont know what connector the hall sensors use but im just gonna lop it off and get it wired up
YES !!! :!: That is EXACTLY what I was going to do also.

Both motors are presently running on a controller that does not require sensors. Next step is to sort out the leads going to the Hall sensors.

If you already did this, what color wires supply +5 vdc to the hall sensors? Once I know what wires are +5 and ground it will be a simple process to sort the remaining 3 data leads.

I didn't want to chance putting +5 into the output of a hall sensor and blow it.

I realize this could be sorted out with a voltmeter and some current limiting resistors as I've done in the past, but thought I'd ask if someone has already done this...

THANKS
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 04 2013 7:17pm

The red and black power the halls like normal, i ran this little motor at no load speed on a 36v controller with 10S just to cycle a battery i had sitting around. Less than .75 amps at no load with a 18mph speed in 20" rim(verified by a junk bike computer)

Today i was able to get this setup on a bike and i decided to run it with a 15S 40A controller because i hate slow...the simulator said it would'nt kill it

On flat ground it does an ok job of pulling over 20mph, then the second you attempt to go up any hill it gets fairly slow and useless, Mind you this is completely unassisted because the bike didnt even have a chain at this point. I rode for about 4 miles and kept seeing how hot the motor was since you can literally stall it on small hills.

I was dreading the ride home since it was all up hill, im sure it looked pretty funny from a by standard point of view. I was trying to kick off the ground like i was riding a scooter to give it a boost. probably climbed my hill to get home at 2 mph and let me tell you this baby got hott!! After about 5 miles i was sick of riding it.

Cant wait for my Farfle swingarm for my main build!

one thing to note is how loud it is also, not very quiet ( louder than any DD motor ive had)

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DISH   10 W

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by DISH » Aug 04 2013 9:11pm

skeetab5780 wrote:The red and black power the halls like normal, i ran this little motor at no load speed on a 36v controller with 10S just to cycle a battery i had sitting around. Less than .75 amps at no load with a 18mph speed in 20" rim(verified by a junk bike computer)
Thanks for the info on the Hall power leads. I was hoping it would be obvious but I haven't cut the connector off yet and didn't know what colors I'd find.

I tested the motors NO LOAD at 64v and they both pulled 57 watts (~1.17 amps) and were doing ~520 RPM.

I had no intention of running this motor in a wheel, which is why the interest in the ERD of the rim, so I could lace the rims to another hub / motor.

One of the motors will be used in an experimental mid drive system and the other is going to power a propeller for an experimental aircraft. I was after light weight more than efficiency.

To whoever was thinking of lacing this motor into a 26 inch wheel :shock: , FORGET IT !!!
........Q
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--=<eof>=--

wollbs   1 µW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by wollbs » Aug 09 2013 5:57pm

The 26" idea was mine. :cry: I got a good deal on an amped geared rear wheel/controller ect for my project. I dont know what I will do with this now...maybe I can think of a good mid-drive application? Maybe the old bmx bike i have in the shed? If anyone sources new spokes for this wheel, let me know as they seem tough to find and get the length right. I would also part with the setup if anyone is interested.
Currently Building:
Haluzak Horizon SWB USS Recumbent, 24 speed, 20" front rim with suspension
w/ Amped geared motor on 26" Rear Rim
Ping 48V 15 Ah mounted under the seat (ordering from ping soon)
Commuter 12 mile each way, mostly flat

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ambroseliao   100 kW

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Re: New crystalyte motor - G series

Post by ambroseliao » Aug 14 2013 9:04am

I received the unique 5 pin connectors for these G series motors from Ilia at ebikessf.com. They have tiny posts for soldering wire to them!
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2013-08-13 13.23.08.jpg
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

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