eBike Battery Heater!

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Post Reply
User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4516
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

eBike Battery Heater!

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 13, 2011 9:58 am

eBike thread got folded into eVehicle forum ... ?
Had to supply a link ... click on pictures!

Inexpensive, thin, flexible, self adhesive, low wattage heating pads.- $5.39/pair!
Image < $4

12V thermostat - safely regulates 12V heating pads.- $15.99 w/shipping!
Image

2-3amp DC step down converter - $2.18
Image
Last edited by DrkAngel on Sep 22, 2013 4:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

LI-ghtcycle
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3872
Joined: Aug 29, 2009 11:39 pm
Location: Oregon City Oregon

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Dec 13, 2011 11:16 am

Sounds great! Have you used some yet or are you still waiting on shipping?
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

LI-ghtcycle
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3872
Joined: Aug 29, 2009 11:39 pm
Location: Oregon City Oregon

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Dec 13, 2011 12:36 pm

You know, personally, I'd rather pay more for something that is more likely to be supported, and yes, it's $50 instead of $5, but it does have a 1 year warranty (yes I know it's only as good as the company warrantying it) and it's probably tougher since it's designed to be sat on. It also is set for 120 F, and should already regulate I imagine, so no separate regulator needed. :wink:

And it's Infrared heat, not a electrical wire that will eventually break and has more potential of causing a problem when it eventually wears out and shorts.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/FIR-Infrared-He ... 4aa7f54f5c
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

User avatar
StudEbiker
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2453
Joined: Apr 13, 2009 2:15 pm
Location: Ashland, OR, USA

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by StudEbiker » Dec 13, 2011 1:47 pm

Screw the battery, I keep the bike inside anyway. I've been trying to figure out a way to heat the seat on the Bike E. :P Those IR pads look great! Too expensive for my budget though. :(

User avatar
auraslip
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3721
Joined: Mar 05, 2010 5:19 pm

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by auraslip » Dec 13, 2011 4:37 pm

nice find. I may have to use these when I park my bike outside for class for 5 hours at a time.
THANKS TO EVERYONE HERE WHO TAUGHT ME ABOUT EBIKES. I'M IN YOUR DEBT.

I sell Ebike Brake levers and throttles with custom connectors crimped on! $10 shipped!

ES facebook group

r/ebikes ebikes on reddit

User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4516
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 13, 2011 7:41 pm

Previous link - Sold Out!

New links listed!- Click on picture!
Inexpensive, thin, flexible, self adhesive, low wattage heating pads.- $5.39/pair!
Image < $4
Last edited by DrkAngel on Sep 22, 2013 4:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

bobc
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1001
Joined: Jan 20, 2011 5:08 pm
Location: Knutsford England
Contact:

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by bobc » Dec 14, 2011 7:00 am

Heating the batteries - doesn't sound very "green"
It makes an enormous difference to lead acid batteries though - we got a 45% power hike by battery heating in our greenpower race car. My impression with lipo's is that the temp makes little or no capacity difference, slight series resistance difference and there is effectively no peukert, so, like, what's the point?

User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4516
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 14, 2011 8:11 am

Point of test:
Observe effect of temperature on eBike-battery performance.

Factors:
Remove eBike drivetrain, temperature, as a factor.
Ambient temperature - 32F
Recycled LiPo (Lithium-ion Cobalt)
Battery charged to 29.4V

Battery & bike allowed to cool to 32F
WOT level cruising speed 17.2 MPH - 23.2V w/sag

Bike at 32F
Battery re-charged & warmed to ~70F
WOT level cruising speed 20.4 MPH - 27.6V w/sag

Observations:
Pedal assisting to 20.4MPH, w/32F battery, reduced battery sag, substantially!

Conclusions:
Battery temperature decrease, (increased Internal Resistence?), caused reduced speed, with increased drain!
A Double whammy!
Lithium-ion Cobalt (LiPo)cells, (suffer an extreme IR increase?), and performance decrease, from reduced temperature!
Last edited by DrkAngel on Dec 14, 2011 12:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

LI-ghtcycle
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3872
Joined: Aug 29, 2009 11:39 pm
Location: Oregon City Oregon

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Dec 14, 2011 11:34 am

bobc wrote:Heating the batteries - doesn't sound very "green"
It makes an enormous difference to lead acid batteries though - we got a 45% power hike by battery heating in our greenpower race car. My impression with lipo's is that the temp makes little or no capacity difference, slight series resistance difference and there is effectively no peukert, so, like, what's the point?
All I can tell you is my garage is no longer heated until we fix the pellet stove, and as long as the temperature is below 50F, my battery capacity suffers about a 40%+ battery capacity lost.

A perfect example is using my E-Bike to take a normal trip that would only take about 30% of capacity in warmer temperatures now takes 60%!

The CA shows only about 8-9 AH Drain which is exactly 50% of my total capacity (true capacity, not just usable capacity) of 18 AH's

However, when I go to charge, the Hyperion tells me I am now at 20% capacity for the same exact trip of about 30 miles that in the warmer weather only took 4-5 AH's.

I plan on eventually buying an IR heating pad, but for now, I don't have it in the budget.

I love these simple battery heating solutions! Thank you for the inspiration DA! :D
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4516
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 18, 2011 8:47 am

2-3amp DC step down converter - $2.18
Image
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

User avatar
dogman dan
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 34450
Joined: May 17, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by dogman dan » Dec 18, 2011 9:39 am

All part of why my lipo boxes on bikes are designed for removal of the batteries for charging and storage. In my case, 8 months of the year my lipo would be too hot in the garage. But it helps to start with a warm batttery in winter. Since my boxes are not insulated, I see the sag set in pretty quick if it's really cold. My ride through slushy wet snow the other week a great example of that. I could tell the slush spraying my battery box was givng my batts an ice cream headache.

In my climate, for the most part, I wouldn't be riding for fun unless it was closer to 50F, so it's not much of an issue.

On my commuters, that would get ridden in the cold more, I insulate the box and the low c rate heats the batt to a decent running temp. I lose about 2 mph of top speed.

User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4516
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 01, 2012 11:56 pm

Received "Heaters" today ... 11 days shipping time.

Image < $4
Click on Picture
Tested in Series! Rigs for 24-25.9V, 36-37V etc.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Sep 22, 2013 4:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

User avatar
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2290
Joined: Feb 09, 2007 3:02 am
Location: Marlboro

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Jan 02, 2012 2:45 am

jojoKRAKO.jpg
those are some mighty fancy heaters you got there Kirk
jojoKRAKO.jpg (38.97 KiB) Viewed 3110 times
Kick down the barricades Listen what the kids say.
From time to time people change their minds But the Frock is here to stay.
I've seen it all from the bottom to the top Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.
Around the world or around the block Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.

Hugues
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 448
Joined: Aug 07, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by Hugues » Jan 02, 2012 3:44 am

LI-ghtcycle wrote:....

And it's Infrared heat, not a electrical wire that will eventually break and has more potential of causing a problem when it eventually wears out and shorts.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/FIR-Infrared-He ... 4aa7f54f5c
Looks interesting, i like infrared heat. Probably more efficient too.

To warm up any part of our body, ok, as long as you're not wearing any clothes that could bounce back infrared rays.

But are you sure infrared can warm up a LiPo pack for example ? I believe the cells inside the pack are wrap in foil that could have a layer of aluminum ? Not sure though.
But whatever material they are wrap in, one should test if infrared don't bounce back and actually heat the battery.
Maybe the black heat shrink around the pack will absorb infrared and warmp up the whole pack this way.

Interesting idea. Do you know the consumption of one pad per hour ?

thanks
Hugues
Switzerland
http://zvexx.com

User avatar
Lock
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4621
Joined: May 24, 2007 5:46 pm
Location: Toronto Harbour
Contact:

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by Lock » Sep 22, 2013 2:37 pm

So... This thread is about two years "down the road" now... In the "Great White North" (southern Ontario) we're facing another winter soon... And I'm thinking about pack warmth outside... Have currently nowhere to keep the trike indoors, plus removing the pack/case from the trike (first removing the back basket) is a bit of a PITA... So right now the pack looks like this:
Reveal3.JPG
Reveal3.JPG (13.82 KiB) Viewed 2270 times
...with thick black plastic foam packing, on all sides, inside a black (probably recycled) plastic "box"... So the pack itself is relatively "tiny", inside a smaller-ish case...

Tonight our weather forecast predicts low plus 3 (C) with a "risk of frost".

So, it'd be *nice* to have a heater of some sort, drawing only mA's at 48V, and switching on only when the pack reached some min temp... Then off again, once things are relatively "toasty" inside the batt case, or eg after the sun has been up for a few hours, and ambient temps are again "climbing" for the new day...

Plans currently are to "make the leap" to some newerisher Li chem eg LiFePO4 (or some other Li Flavour?)

So just curious, if any of the earlier posters in this thread care to update, or anybuddy on ES cares to add to or update this thread?

Merci, mes amis!

L
If you like this message feel free to donate BeerCoins (BTC) to:
1LxAXWmbjY6SeMf8r9HHhSKt6pWyPvWg6L

Toronto Electric Riders Association:
http://www.ebikeriders.com/
Canada, eh?

User avatar
Lock
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4621
Joined: May 24, 2007 5:46 pm
Location: Toronto Harbour
Contact:

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by Lock » Sep 22, 2013 3:57 pm

PS... and BTW... A pic of one single cell in the pack (not disassembled from the wiring)...
Reveal5.JPG
Reveal5.JPG (16.52 KiB) Viewed 2262 times
Showing the mfgrs codes "ZM6268DSPN-4200MAH" and "12K23"... (other side of foil cell "pouch" is blank)...

So these pics appear to confirm the cells are from the "Jiangxi Z.T New Energy Co., Ltd (established in July 2003), and may be these particular cells:
http://en.zhongtouenergy.com/products_d ... 57701.html

(The "ZT" product name, vs my "ZM" is I suspect only an "OEM" diff... When the cells in their pics appear to have tabs covered with plastic protection...)

But lets see...

Typical Capacity 4200 Mah... Check...
Nominal Voltage 3.7 volts... Check...

`Fraid I don't have the instruments currently to weigh the weight or measure the size (L, W, thickness) of each cell...

Pack is said by assembler to be "48V" and "9 Ah"... So yeah, looks like the pack is two packs of 12 cells each. But 12 cells at 3.7 volts total only 44.4 volts? And 2x 4200 mah cells totals only 8400 mah?

Unfortunately, I don't have any instruments to measure each cell/the pack...

L
If you like this message feel free to donate BeerCoins (BTC) to:
1LxAXWmbjY6SeMf8r9HHhSKt6pWyPvWg6L

Toronto Electric Riders Association:
http://www.ebikeriders.com/
Canada, eh?

User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4516
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by DrkAngel » Sep 22, 2013 4:05 pm

New Link for 2 flexible pads self adhesive.
Image < $4
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

User avatar
Lock
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4621
Joined: May 24, 2007 5:46 pm
Location: Toronto Harbour
Contact:

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by Lock » Sep 22, 2013 5:58 pm

Thanks DA! "Motorcycle Handlebars Motorcycle Warm Heat Heated Grip Kit Pads"... My guess, 12 volts, but no indication of the mA's involved... ie "wattage" consumed... The A-B on-off toggle switch is a nice touch, but I was kinda hoping to automate that process, based on ambient or cell/pack temps...
L
If you like this message feel free to donate BeerCoins (BTC) to:
1LxAXWmbjY6SeMf8r9HHhSKt6pWyPvWg6L

Toronto Electric Riders Association:
http://www.ebikeriders.com/
Canada, eh?

justlooking
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 340
Joined: Dec 14, 2012 7:59 pm
Location: norfolk, uk , england

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by justlooking » Sep 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Lock wrote:Thanks DA! "Motorcycle Handlebars Motorcycle Warm Heat Heated Grip Kit Pads"... My guess, 12 volts, but no indication of the mA's involved... ie "wattage" consumed... The A-B on-off toggle switch is a nice touch, but I was kinda hoping to automate that process, based on ambient or cell/pack temps...
L
Voltage: 12 v
Colour: black
Heating area: 90 x 85 mm
Power: 3 w
Warming faster (1 seconds speed heat)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-Wa ... 565b9c3db1

justlooking
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 340
Joined: Dec 14, 2012 7:59 pm
Location: norfolk, uk , england

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by justlooking » Sep 22, 2013 7:48 pm


User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4516
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by DrkAngel » Sep 22, 2013 8:02 pm

Lock wrote:Thanks DA! "Motorcycle Handlebars Motorcycle Warm Heat Heated Grip Kit Pads"... My guess, 12 volts, but no indication of the mA's involved... ie "wattage" consumed... The A-B on-off toggle switch is a nice touch, but I was kinda hoping to automate that process, based on ambient or cell/pack temps...
L
I Did Amperage wattage tests, including running pads in series with 24V & 36V, with resultant volts, watts and Amps.

Image
DrkAngel wrote:
DrkAngel wrote:Received "Heaters" today ... 11 days shipping time.
With self adhesive tapes.
2 pads run in parallel use 1.2A
12V x 1.2A = 14.4 watts
8V x .8A = 6.4 watts

2 pads rigged in series
12V x .3A = 3.6 watts
Batheater s.JPG
More test results:
2 pads run in series:
25.9V pack - 29V
.7A 1- 13.5V 1- 15.5V = 20Watts ... 15.5V noticeably warmer ... too hot?
Reversed voltage showed same pad running at higher V.

3 pads run in series
.5A 8.6V 9.1V 10.7V = 14.5Watts

25.9V pack - 29.2V
4 pads run in series 25.9V pack - 29.2V
Covers the main exterior surfaces of my LiPo packs.
All pads near 7V - about 3W each
Looks to be ideal for me, with batts placed in insulated pack.

37V pack - ~42V 6pack "Cool Cell" pack should work nicely with 6 pads in series.
(6 pads covering vertical surfaces nicely.)
Stats should be nearly identical to 4 pad 29.2V pack.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Sep 22, 2013 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

User avatar
Lock
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4621
Joined: May 24, 2007 5:46 pm
Location: Toronto Harbour
Contact:

Re: eBike Battery Heater!

Post by Lock » Sep 22, 2013 9:21 pm

Terrific Sirs! Many thanks... Hey Norfolk? The Broads still there? (It's been a looong time since I lived in Croydon, UK, but my Navy dad used to take his family for vacations cruising the Broads (and the Fens)... Pretty amazing stuff for a Canadian kid.
L
If you like this message feel free to donate BeerCoins (BTC) to:
1LxAXWmbjY6SeMf8r9HHhSKt6pWyPvWg6L

Toronto Electric Riders Association:
http://www.ebikeriders.com/
Canada, eh?

Post Reply