Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2012)

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Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2012)

Post by Lyen » Jan 02 2012 2:48pm

2012 Mega-Monster Enduro

This is a once a year event against non-motorized bicycle racers. You can sign up for either the full 102 miles (164km) race or the shorter 64 miles (103km)

When:
Saturday, 11 Feb 2012, between 8 am (slower riders) to 9:30 am (fastest riders). Faster riders will want to start 9 am to 9:30 am to avoid getting to the checkpoints before they open. Slower riders should start close to 8 am to avoid getting to the checkpoints after they close. The start is "low-key": when you're ready, you go, and we record your start time.

Where:
Start point is at the Paicines General Store in Paicines. Parking is available along the side of the highway (not at the store). Restrooms are available in the General Store to customers only, so please spend at least a dollar or so if you want to use the facilities (post-ride burritos are available!) We will also have a Porta-Potty available for the morning before the store opens. It is about 2 hours drive from San Francisco.

Distance:
102 miles or 64 miles

Registration:
Solo riders: RSVP here so we know to expect you on the big day!
Teams: RSVP here once you have your roster set!

Lodging:
Best Western San Benito Inn in Hollister provides Low-Key with a discount for the night of February 10th, the night before the Enduro. Ask for the Megamonster Bicycle Race room rate: reference Sanjay at the Best Western if there's any confusion about the discount. Check here for Google Maps.

Who:
There will be MrBill and me and other road bike racers - around 60 people I believe. I will add more to the list soon.
For a list of registered racers see below:
Registered solo riders is viewable here.
Registered teams is viewable here.

Electric Bicycle Rules:
"hybrid-electric" division, where the vehicle, bicycle, tricycle, or quad (2-4 wheels), faired or un-faired, must comply with the following rules:
Pedals and human power function: the vehicle must have functional pedals that allow the bicycle to be ridden on level ground 8 meters in a second solely under human power (18 mph for one second).
Only electric motors: the vehicle may use only electric motor or motors to assist propulsion.
Stored energy limit: the vehicle may use no more than 2 kilowatt hours of stored energy for the 100mi event and no more than 1.25 kilowatt hours for the 100k event. For a tandem the watt-hour limit is increased by 50%. For a multi-rider team the watt-hour limit applies to each bike on the team. For a relay team, the watt-hour limit applies to the sum of stored energy on all team bikes.
Battery mounting: batteries must be mounted securely to the vehicle frame. No backpack battery packs.

Volunteers or Bill Bushnell reserve the right to judge compliance with the above rules and to disqualify any vehicle that is deemed to be inconsistent with a bicycling event. If you have any doubts about your entry please contact MrBill or the event organizers ahead of time for approval.

Here's the map and the hilly portion of the route:
ImageImage

For more details, click on the link below:
http://megamonster.lowkeyhillclimbs.com/2012/
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 25&t=33827

My last year's 102 Miles ebike racing experience:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... experience

Who is going? :D
Last edited by Lyen on Feb 09 2012 10:53pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Jan 02 2012 10:09pm

I'm definitely interested.
Last edited by Alan B on Feb 01 2012 1:53am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mvly » Jan 03 2012 3:27pm

How much is the registration/hotel cost?

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 03 2012 3:49pm

Alan B wrote:I'm definitely interested.

Please note that the race is the 11th, not the 12th. (both dates are mentioned above).
I have corrected the date to 11th. Thanks! :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 03 2012 3:52pm

mvly wrote:How much is the registration/hotel cost?
Last time I paid $10 for registration. You pay when you get there.

For hotel cost, please email to 05330@hotel.bestwestern.com or call the Best Western hotel at 800-605-7603 or 831-637-9248 or online reservation from the link below:
http://book.bestwestern.com/bestwestern ... Code=05330
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by WeeWheelie » Jan 04 2012 11:40am

HOO Hooo. . Let's see, should I load the 1.8K of hauling power on my 26" Target store commutter Schwinn or on my sleek Green Inc 24" public transit racer :?:

WeeWheelie is registered and buying a size larger pants as my thigh muscles need the room :wink:
You shot a red light 2 miles back, said my cop. Give me 1 reason why I shouldn't ...

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 04 2012 11:56am

WeeWheelie wrote:HOO Hooo. . Let's see, should I load the 1.8K of hauling power on my 26" Target store commutter Schwinn or on my sleek Green Inc 24" public transit racer :?:

WeeWheelie is registered and buying a size larger pants as my thigh muscles need the room :wink:
It would be nice if you can show us the pictures of both. You may wanna bring both just in case. :D

You should be able to make it with the batteries watt hours mentioned in the registration commentary. Just for my curiosity, what is your average speed on both of your ebikes and watt hours per mile?

By the way, I like your team name as Grocery Getter. I think I should call my team as Pizza Delivery Boy. LOL :mrgreen:
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mvly » Jan 04 2012 12:18pm

Man I just did a test ride with pedal assist to the point of where I would want to pedal assist for 4 hours and my average speed is 15-20mph using around 23.4Wh/mi. Base on my battery specs, 51.8V22Ah = 1139.6Wh, I don't know if I can make even the 103Km ride without killing my battery like Lyen did last year.

80% of 1139.6Wh = 911.68Wh. So not to kill my Lipo
Being optimistic, 20Wh/mi, I would get 45.584 miles which is about 20 miles short of the goal.

Wonder if I can sneak extra battery in my backpack. : )

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by WeeWheelie » Jan 04 2012 12:20pm

17Wh/mi @16-17mph, yet I'm thinking of running a lil' BaFang so counting on an extra 5% distance by gliding downhills. That's with pedalling, actually I can go pretty far using only 1Wh/mi @ 12mph :lol:
CuteBuild.jpg
Cute motor may switch to Big BaFang
CuteBuild.jpg (50.19 KiB) Viewed 3977 times
Somebody's gonna get light headed from 6.5hrs of 85W power assist (mine) :roll:
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Baby BaFang motor 17Wh/hr @ 16 average mph
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Last edited by WeeWheelie on Jan 04 2012 4:16pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 04 2012 12:22pm

mvly wrote:Man I just did a test ride with pedal assist to the point of where I would want to pedal assist for 4 hours and my average speed is 15-20mph using around 23.4Wh/mi. Base on my battery specs, 51.8V22Ah = 1139.6Wh, I don't know if I can make even the 103Km ride without killing my battery like Lyen did last year.

80% of 1139.6Wh = 911.68Wh. So not to kill my Lipo
Being optimistic, 20Wh/mi, I would get 45.584 miles which is about 20 miles short of the goal.

Wonder if I can sneak extra battery in my backpack. : )
It is good to know your average watt hours. You can actually bring up to 2000 watt hours of juice without sneak extra battery in your backpack.

Do you have a picture of your ebike? Perhaps I can give you some ideas on where to mount the additional battery packs. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 04 2012 12:29pm

WeeWheelie wrote:17Wh/mi @16-17mph, yet I'm thinking of running a lil' BaFang so counting on an extra 5% from gliding downhills.
CuteBuild.jpg
Thanks for the picture. 17Wh is consider very efficient. My last average was around 23-26Wh if I remember right. I guess it was because I was trying to keep up with one of the lycra roadie pedaling over 30mph. I should not have race against him. I believe the guy was a CAT3 racer from the San Jose Bicycling Club. :roll:

You may want to bring two water bottles and mounts on your ebike. There are water refill & compliments tables at around 40 miles & 20 miles & back.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mvly » Jan 04 2012 12:33pm

Lyen wrote:
mvly wrote:Man I just did a test ride with pedal assist to the point of where I would want to pedal assist for 4 hours and my average speed is 15-20mph using around 23.4Wh/mi. Base on my battery specs, 51.8V22Ah = 1139.6Wh, I don't know if I can make even the 103Km ride without killing my battery like Lyen did last year.

80% of 1139.6Wh = 911.68Wh. So not to kill my Lipo
Being optimistic, 20Wh/mi, I would get 45.584 miles which is about 20 miles short of the goal.

Wonder if I can sneak extra battery in my backpack. : )
It is good to know your average watt hours. You can actually bring up to 2000 watt hours of juice without sneak extra battery in your backpack.

Do you have a picture of your ebike? Perhaps I can give you some ideas on where to mount the additional battery packs. :)
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 4&start=15

last picture.

but keep in mind, if I put the 2KWh on it, I will have to do the 102miles version which I don't have enough battery for. I do have a 74V mountain bike with 1440Wh, but that is not complete build yet. Still working out where to put the battery. I complete remodeled it.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =4&t=33528

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 04 2012 12:41pm

mvly wrote:
Lyen wrote:
mvly wrote:Man I just did a test ride with pedal assist to the point of where I would want to pedal assist for 4 hours and my average speed is 15-20mph using around 23.4Wh/mi. Base on my battery specs, 51.8V22Ah = 1139.6Wh, I don't know if I can make even the 103Km ride without killing my battery like Lyen did last year.

80% of 1139.6Wh = 911.68Wh. So not to kill my Lipo
Being optimistic, 20Wh/mi, I would get 45.584 miles which is about 20 miles short of the goal.

Wonder if I can sneak extra battery in my backpack. : )
It is good to know your average watt hours. You can actually bring up to 2000 watt hours of juice without sneak extra battery in your backpack.

Do you have a picture of your ebike? Perhaps I can give you some ideas on where to mount the additional battery packs. :)
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 4&start=15

last picture.

but keep in mind, if I put the 2KWh on it, I will have to do the 102miles version which I don't have enough battery for. I do have a 74V mountain bike with 1440Wh, but that is not complete build yet. Still working out where to put the battery. I complete remodeled it.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =4&t=33528
Thanks for the links. The cross-tour bike you have would be easier to pedal. You can simply get a pannier and mount on the side of your rear rack, and carry over your batteries from your other mountain bike. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mvly » Jan 04 2012 12:47pm

Lyen wrote: Thanks for the links. The cross-tour bike you have would be easier to pedal. You can simply get a pannier and mount on the side of your rear rack, and carry over your batteries from your other mountain bike. :)
So you are saying I should use more than 1.3KW if I am doing the 103Km run or use more than 2KW if I am doing the 102mile run? Isn't that breaking the rules? : )

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 04 2012 1:00pm

mvly wrote:
Lyen wrote: Thanks for the links. The cross-tour bike you have would be easier to pedal. You can simply get a pannier and mount on the side of your rear rack, and carry over your batteries from your other mountain bike. :)
So you are saying I should use more than 1.3KW if I am doing the 103Km run or use more than 2KW if I am doing the 102mile run? Isn't that breaking the rules? : )
Sorry, I was under the impression you want to go for the 102 miles run. Just bring what you think you can manage and fun to ride with. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by amberwolf » Jan 04 2012 1:33pm

So basically you would have to have a vehicle capable of significantly less than 20Wh/mile consumption. If it was right at 20Wh/mile, you'd be running the pack to totally dead, probably damaging it. Assuming you have to leave 20% in there, you really only get an 1800Wh pack for 100miles, so you have to have a maximum of 18Wh/mile usage.


Maybe if I put a full velo fairing on CrazyBike2 I could get that. :) It's usually 25-30Wh/mile on the flats here in Phoenix, but that is also in stop-and-go traffic. I don't know what it would be if I could just ride without stopping, but I know it would be more efficient.


Too far away for me to get to, anyway, but it sounds like it'd be fun. :)

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by liveforphysics » Jan 04 2012 3:23pm

I may participate.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 04 2012 3:33pm

amberwolf wrote:So basically you would have to have a vehicle capable of significantly less than 20Wh/mile consumption. If it was right at 20Wh/mile, you'd be running the pack to totally dead, probably damaging it. Assuming you have to leave 20% in there, you really only get an 1800Wh pack for 100miles, so you have to have a maximum of 18Wh/mile usage.


Maybe if I put a full velo fairing on CrazyBike2 I could get that. :) It's usually 25-30Wh/mile on the flats here in Phoenix, but that is also in stop-and-go traffic. I don't know what it would be if I could just ride without stopping, but I know it would be more efficient.


Too far away for me to get to, anyway, but it sounds like it'd be fun. :)
Amberwolf, if you ever come to Northern California (San Francisco) I can lend you an ebike to the race. I have around 200 lbs of SLA batteries for your 102 miles run. LOL Just kidding. But I do have something for you to have fun with in case you are interested to come. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 04 2012 3:36pm

liveforphysics wrote:I may participate.
Awesome! It is a good opportunity to test your Zero optimized batteries. What do you plan to bring Luke? Would you need to have another custom build ebike for the race like this one? It would be interesting if Methods can join as well. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by amberwolf » Jan 04 2012 4:21pm

Lyen wrote:Amberwolf, if you ever come to Northern California (San Francisco) I can lend you an ebike to the race. I have around 200 lbs of SLA batteries for your 102 miles run. LOL Just kidding. But I do have something for you to have fun with in case you are interested to come. :)
I certainly appreciate the offer, but if it's not a 'bent, or semi-'bent, like CrazyBIke2, I probably couldn't ride it for 10 miles much less 100. :( My legs and back can't really handle it anymore even with rest stops. (plus stopping and putting a foot down at the usual height or hopping off the seat and back on is often painful to my knees). My rolling lawn-chair on the other hand, I can ride as long as the batteries last, if I don't have to always pedal or at least not really doing any serious work at it. :)

That's the main reason I don't use DayGlo Avenger much anymore, and finally added a trailer hitch to CrazyBike2 (so I wouldn't have to ride anything else even when I need a trailer).

I probably have enough battery to do the 100mile run, and it might even all fit on the bike at the same time. :lol: But the bike takes too much power as it is, so using the battery to do it (2.5-3KWh+) I wouldn't be allowed in. :(

Still, I'd like to join in one day, if I can get there and if I can make a bike efficient enough to do it.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mrbill » Jan 04 2012 5:08pm

http://megamonster.lowkeyhillclimbs.com/2012/

A few comments:

0) Thanks, Lyen, for pinging this topic. We had fun last year, even if we were the only two entrants.

1) No backpack batteries are allowed for safety reasons. We don't want you crashing upon a brick (if you crash), and tethers have a way of getting tangled in the works and causing crashes.

2) Re: watt-hour limit: If you show up with 2.1kwh because you have 3 500wh batteries and 1 600wh battery, then we'll probably let you ride. Also, if you show up with 2.5 kwh because you intend to use the full 2kwh but don't want to trash your valuable LiPo pack draining it to zero, you'll need to convince the officials that you didn't pull more than 2 kwh from it after you arrive at the finish. A calibrated CycleAnalyst that can show this will help. Or just bring LiFePO4 that can be drained to near zero (wh remaining) without doing too much damage.

Since we're trying to get more e-bike participation, I'm allowing some wiggle room. But, it has to pass the smell test. E.g. If you show up with 50 lbs or more of LiPo, that won't smell right! We reserve the right to inspect to make sure no one's cheating, but for the most part entrants are on their honor not to.

3) This is a bicycling event, not a motorcycling event. Our insurance won't cover motorcycles, and we want to make sure there is a human challenge. If you can ride the event on the allotted energy without pedaling, then more power to you. But, you'll probably finish faster if you pedal.

4) If you think your wh/mi might be too high, try aiming for a slower cruising speed, or practice riding in a more aerodynamic position. Part of the challenge is to ride efficiently. It's up to each entrant to figure out how best to do that.

5) If 100 miles is farther than you can comfortably ride a bike in one sitting, consider the 100 km course.

6) If two or more of you have e-bikes with similar capability, consider forming an e-bike team and learn how to draft off each other. Doing so would reduce the overall aerodynamic losses of the team.

7) Even if you think your rig would be disqualified or that you couldn't compete, come and show up anyway to check us out or ride the course or part of it on your own. We can't list you in the results if your bike doesn't qualify, but it would be fun just to see more e-bikes out there.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Jan 04 2012 7:04pm

Thanks for the encouragement. Looks like a fun event. Will try to make it.

Tucked over for 100 miles to be aerodynamic on an electric mountain bike would probably lead to a back injury. At least for me.

Forming an electric team and drafting sounds like a good idea. Might be fun to try. Would not need to change the lead very often. Biggest risk is that more than one of the group would run out of battery and have difficulty finishing in good time.

It would be interesting to put approximate battery power consumed into the results for electrics.

My 'Borg is not going to be ready, so if I come it will be with aluminum mountain bike, 9C 6x10, 18S Lipo. Need to get more Lipo to make that distance though.

Maybe a backpack for water, that should be safe enough.

If some folks are interested in making a team we might want to set up a planning discussion somewhere.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by amberwolf » Jan 05 2012 1:32am

mrbill wrote:7) Even if you think your rig would be disqualified or that you couldn't compete, come and show up anyway to check us out or ride the course or part of it on your own. We can't list you in the results if your bike doesn't qualify, but it would be fun just to see more e-bikes out there.
If I lived out where you are, I would come anyway, just to ride in it. :) I'm not really in it for the competition anyway, just the fun!


No need to reply to the below, but posted just because I ran the numbers a bit:
E.g. If you show up with 50 lbs or more of LiPo, that won't smell right!
Well, in my case ATM it would be 42-ish lbs of Thundersky (1920Wh, 1536 usable ~ 80%D0D) in series with a 20lb ~1162wh experimental pack similar to LiPo, making it only about 930Wh usable at 80%DoD. If I get enough RC LiPo working, or maybe the 20lb-ish Vpower/CammyCC pack (630-ish Wh, maybe 500 usable?), I could leave out the TS pack, but I wouldn't have the range to do the 100mile event unless I can make the other bike work. I think that with the TS and the experimental pack I could manage to finish the 100mile, but I'm not totally sure even then.

3) If you can ride the event on the allotted energy without pedaling, then more power to you. But, you'll probably finish faster if you pedal.
I'm not sure that I can pedal enough to really help, without too much pain, so most likely I would not be one of the "racers", just someone riding the same path at the same time, basically. I love pedalling, I just can't do it so much anymore, especially with any real effort behind it. :(
4) If you think your wh/mi might be too high, try aiming for a slower cruising speed, or practice riding in a more aerodynamic position. Part of the challenge is to ride efficiently.
To fix my problems, I guess I need to get the middrive bike working. :lol: And theoretically to lighten up the bike, cuz the hills will really do in my Wh/mile with the weight I have now (300lbs+ including me being half of that).

Aerodynamics on mine is better than the average bike (well, at least for the riding position). Those big boxes on the back of CrazyBike2 definitely don't help aero, but they can be left off and a tailcone constructed instead.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by nikos7 » Jan 05 2012 4:28pm

Can batteries be towed on a trailer?? 2 kw/h is an awful lot of batteries to mount securely to your bike frame per rules...
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Hobbit » Jan 05 2012 6:21pm

Is a mid-ride charging station a possibility? If that's not mentioned in the rules then there's your loophole. :wink:
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