Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2012)

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 05 2012 9:17pm

nikos7 wrote:Can batteries be towed on a trailer?? 2 kw/h is an awful lot of batteries to mount securely to your bike frame per rules...
I believe you can since towing a trailer may compromise with increased rolling resistance. But I would use a trailer too if there is not enough room on the bike. You do not want to carry SLA on a trailer though. :wink:
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 05 2012 9:20pm

Hobbit wrote:Is a mid-ride charging station a possibility? If that's not mentioned in the rules then there's your loophole. :wink:
There is actually a human recharge/refreshment station with water and cookies around the middle of the race. But I think charging in the mid ride would defeat the purpose.

Another interesting possible loophole would be to use solar panels I think. 8)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mvly » Jan 06 2012 12:26am

Screw it. I'm going. I guess I will have to manage the battery the same way I manage my money. Use only what I need! I'll see if I can get some more battery to do the 100 mile. The 100KM seems too wimpy to me. : )

See you guys there. I will be bring the Hybrid bike since the mountain will not be ready by then. Hopefully the BMC V3 does not crap out on me that day.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 06 2012 1:44am

mvly wrote:Screw it. I'm going. I guess I will have to manage the battery the same way I manage my money. Use only what I need! I'll see if I can get some more battery to do the 100 mile. The 100KM seems too wimpy to me. : )

See you guys there. I will be bring the Hybrid bike since the mountain will not be ready by then. Hopefully the BMC V3 does not crap out on me that day.
Cool! I am glad you go for the 102 miles race. It is more challenging but twice the fun. :)

I just did some math on the weight for the battery chemistry at 2000 watt hours. Here it is:

12V Sealed Acid Lead (SLA) at 2KWh (weight based on 12V 12Ah pack):
120.64 lbs or 54.72Kg

Ping LifePO4 at 2KWh (weight based on 48V 10Ah pack):
45.01 lbs or 20.42Kg

Turnigy 20-25C Lipo at 2KWh (weight based on 6S 5000mah at 775g pack):
30.79 lbs or 13.96Kg

Panasonic NCR18650 3100mah 3.7v Lipo cells at 2KWh (weight based on 3.7v 3100mah per cell at 45g):
17.30 lbs or 7.85Kg

It would be amazing to utilize the latter. :wink:
Last edited by Lyen on Jan 06 2012 2:15pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mvly » Jan 06 2012 5:23am

Well my 1440Wh nanotech battery is 22lbs roughly. So 2KWh would be around 30lbs at most. Still 2x the Panasonic, but not bad. Is the nanotech lighter?

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by nieles » Jan 06 2012 5:50am

Lyen wrote:Turnigy 20-25C Lipo at 2KWh (weight based on 6S 5000mah at 909g pack):
36.26 lbs or 16.45Kg

Panasonic NCR18650 3100mah 3.7v Lipo cells at 2KWh (weight based on 3.7v 3100mah per cell at 45g):
17.30 lbs or 7.85Kg
i just want to state this is a bit unfair of a comparison.
for the turnigy 909gram is the shipping weight (812 for the actual pack)
for the panasonic cells you still need to connect the cells together (5-10gram per cell?)

but there will still be a 5-6kg difference between the packs

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by adrian_sm » Jan 06 2012 6:05am

What bike are you taking Lyen?

I just did an 80km (50 mile ride) with my road bike/friction drive setup about a week ago. Used ~700wh, cruising at ~40kph on the flat, averaged 31kph with stops, traffic, hills, searching for campsite etc. If I had the extra battery capacity I would have loved to turn around and make it a cool 100 mile.

Best of luck to everyone that gives it a go.

Adrian
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 06 2012 2:19pm

mvly wrote:Well my 1440Wh nanotech battery is 22lbs roughly. So 2KWh would be around 30lbs at most. Still 2x the Panasonic, but not bad. Is the nanotech lighter?
The Tunrigy Nanotech is 844g on the 6S 5000mah pack, so 2KWh would be roughly around 15.21Kg or 33.53 lbs.

I have updated the Turnigy 6S 5000 mah that I have. My pack weights at 775g per pack but HobbyKing's website listed at 909g for some reason. It is actually lighter than the Nano pack by the way. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 06 2012 2:34pm

nieles wrote:
Lyen wrote:Turnigy 20-25C Lipo at 2KWh (weight based on 6S 5000mah at 909g pack):
36.26 lbs or 16.45Kg

Panasonic NCR18650 3100mah 3.7v Lipo cells at 2KWh (weight based on 3.7v 3100mah per cell at 45g):
17.30 lbs or 7.85Kg
i just want to state this is a bit unfair of a comparison.
for the turnigy 909gram is the shipping weight (812 for the actual pack)
for the panasonic cells you still need to connect the cells together (5-10gram per cell?)

but there will still be a 5-6kg difference between the packs
Thanks for the clarification, I have just weighted the pack that I have (Turnigy 6S 5000mah) on the scale it is 775 grams. I have updated my previous post to reflect the change.

You are correct that the Panasonic may be about one or 2 Kg heavier with the solders, tab plates, and wires. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 06 2012 2:44pm

adrian_sm wrote:What bike are you taking Lyen?

I just did an 80km (50 mile ride) with my road bike/friction drive setup about a week ago. Used ~700wh, cruising at ~40kph on the flat, averaged 31kph with stops, traffic, hills, searching for campsite etc. If I had the extra battery capacity I would have loved to turn around and make it a cool 100 mile.

Best of luck to everyone that gives it a go.

Adrian
Hi Adrian,

I am planning to use the alpha kit from you mate. :D But I will run to perform a few test runs to confirm if it is doable and if the weather is not slippery/wet on the race day. Otherwise, the previous setup will be use.

By the way, I was puzzling to get the end cap and secure the spring tab on the right side but had it figured out. See below:
Image

The end secure round shape piece was easy to drill a hole through it. So all good, now the fitting challenge... My size for a road bike is around 51-52cm, but I had to use a 54cm frame bike to fit the motor kit. It is a good learning experience. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by adrian_sm » Jan 06 2012 4:41pm

Lyen wrote:I am planning to use the alpha kit from you mate.
8) That is great news. What controller are you using? You will want something that limits amps for an endurance race like this. If you plan on using an RC ESC, I would recommend using a RC Cycle Analyst or one of my brain box's to keep the power levels in check.
Lyen wrote:now the fitting challenge... My size for a road bike is around 51-52cm, but I had to use a 54cm frame bike to fit the motor kit. It is a good learning experience. :)
Since this is an endurance race, and you will be keeping power levels down to ~500w or so, you might get away with a smaller 50mm motor, this could allow you to fit it on a smaller frame. But I personally would stick with the bigger motor, drop the seat, put on a short stem, and fill that triangle with LiPo. :D

Best of luck, and please contact me with any issues regarding the drive.

- Adrian
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by amberwolf » Jan 07 2012 4:32am

Hmmm...regarding figuring out your bike's efficiency for longhaul rides like this: I just went on about an 8-9 mile ride with Evoforce and Mdd0127, most of it on the canal path with no stops for most of that, and was able to get <22Wh/mile, even though I stayed at >23MPH most of the time, and did a few attempts at the highest speed I could get, which turned out to be 30.6MPH.

So even though I typically get 26-30Wh/mile or so, in stop/start traffic conditions, I dropped that significantly just by cruising at a reasonably steady speed as much as possible. If i had not stopped the few times I did along the canal, and hadn't tried for the speed runs, keeping it under say, 20MPH all the time, I could have probably gotten notably lower power consumption. Maybe down into the mid-high teens.


So for those figuring out your pack sizes vs range, keep that in mind.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mvly » Jan 08 2012 4:28pm

Ok did some test this weekend,

1st ride: mix of hill climbs and a few descent
19.8miles
Average speed: 13.2mph
Average wh/mi: 10.1

2nd ride: also mix of hill climb and descent, but much steeper hill climb also got lost a couple of time and more red lights
26miles
Average speed: 15.3mph
Average wh/mi: 14.3

Overall, i should be able to finish in 6 hours or less if i do the 100mi.

I think as long as i carry more than 1.5kwh, i should be able to finish it.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 12 2012 7:02am

mvly wrote:Ok did some test this weekend,

1st ride: mix of hill climbs and a few descent
19.8miles
Average speed: 13.2mph
Average wh/mi: 10.1

2nd ride: also mix of hill climb and descent, but much steeper hill climb also got lost a couple of time and more red lights
26miles
Average speed: 15.3mph
Average wh/mi: 14.3

Overall, i should be able to finish in 6 hours or less if i do the 100mi.

I think as long as i carry more than 1.5kwh, i should be able to finish it.
Yes, I believe you should do fine. Last time I brought only 1100-1200 watt hours of juice but the was used up at around 69 miles. I could have get more range out it if I was less aggressive. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mrbill » Jan 26 2012 12:00pm

In case anyone is still following this thread, I posted an update on the event in the Events forum:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 75#p524375

Summary: Discount hotel rooms are now available on the night prior to (and possibly following) the event. Might be handy for any out-of-towners.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by chroot » Jan 26 2012 12:48pm

I can run my new LiPo 16S 40Ah on Yuba Cargo bike but it wont be efficient wh per mile due fast wind 9x7 9C motor and fat tires aren't exactly high efficient. :lol:
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by SoSauty » Jan 26 2012 3:03pm

Hey Lyen, (or anyone that can use 'em)

I've an extra pair of NanoTec 6S 6000mAhr lipos in case you want to run with 1.8K over 1.5K. They have the std 4mm bullet connectors though I've shortened the leads to about 2". I'll bring 'em Feb11 regardless.

Been down with a virus a few days but have the bike far enough along to foto and post in a few days. I'm targeting 17mph for around a 6.5hr run. If the climbs are consistently moderate, to where the 'lil BaFang will hold 16mph going up and lend to a restive downward cruise of 25mph, I may get in close to 6hr.

When I was 49 wanted to enter a crosscountry 8hr stamina run and was pretty much in shape but shattered my shoulder in a 40' gulley, diving down, tires just inches off the dirt, but some quads had been down 'dhere crisscrossing in the bottom mud which was now my cemented landing zone. Wasn't expecting that. Took the fire captain an hour and half to locate me with buzzards flying overhead.

So, at 56 I very much look forward to this endurance run. Only may have choke-ka-boddle out of there right afterwards as my Harem wants to hear some BlueGrass over in Porterville that evening.

102miles of smiles.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mvly » Jan 26 2012 6:18pm

I just called Sanjay and he said the rooms with the discounts are $20 off regular price. So for a single, it is like $75+tax which comes out to be like $80. I am not sure about the double bed or any other type of rooms. So gas to get there ~$90 round trip. And $10 registration. Add in other stuff like food/water, etc. All in all, it should be $220 for me. This is a bit steep for me, a student, to do. I might withdraw on this race this year...

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 29 2012 11:42pm

chroot wrote:I can run my new LiPo 16S 40Ah on Yuba Cargo bike but it wont be efficient wh per mile due fast wind 9x7 9C motor and fat tires aren't exactly high efficient. :lol:
Hi Chroot,

You may want to ask SoSauty to lend you a few lipo batteries that he is offering. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 29 2012 11:51pm

Hi SoSauty,

That is great you are planning to go. I really appreciate your offer for some extra juice. :) I think a few people going for the race may utilize it. I should have enough myself but I will try to bring the 4mm bullet connectors/wires/adapters with me.

I also had a crushed right knee myself and cannot pedal with full strength and that was how I got into ebike stuff. If I could do it last time so can you. This is going to be another unforgettable moment. :)
SoSauty wrote:Hey Lyen, (or anyone that can use 'em)

I've an extra pair of NanoTec 6S 6000mAhr lipos in case you want to run with 1.8K over 1.5K. They have the std 4mm bullet connectors though I've shortened the leads to about 2". I'll bring 'em Feb11 regardless.

Been down with a virus a few days but have the bike far enough along to foto and post in a day or so. I'm targeting 17mph for around a 6.5hr run. If the climbs are consistently moderate, to where the 'lil BaFang will hold 16mph going up and lend to a restive downward cruise of 25mph, I may get in close to 6hr.

When I was 49 wanted to enter a crosscountry 8hr stamina run and was pretty much in shape but shattered my shoulder in a 40' gulley, diving down, tires just inches off the dirt, but some quads had been down 'dhere crisscrossing in the bottom mud which was now my cemented landing zone. Wasn't expecting that. Took the fire captain an hour and half to locate me with buzzards flying overhead.

So, at 56 I very much look forward to this endurance run. Only may have choke-ka-boddle out of there right afterwards as my Harem wants to see Steve Martin and the Steep Canyon Rangers (BlueGrass) over in Porterville that evening.

102miles of smiles.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Jan 29 2012 11:56pm

mvly wrote:I just called Sanjay and he said the rooms with the discounts are $20 off regular price. So for a single, it is like $75+tax which comes out to be like $80. I am not sure about the double bed or any other type of rooms. So gas to get there ~$90 round trip. And $10 registration. Add in other stuff like food/water, etc. All in all, it should be $220 for me. This is a bit steep for me, a student, to do. I might withdraw on this race this year...
Take Greyhound, Amtrak, or Caltrans with your ebike and probably share the room with other ebikers and split the bill. You may wanna ask around. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Feb 01 2012 8:41am

I ordered more Lipo. Not certain that I can make it, but we'll see.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Feb 01 2012 3:06pm

Alan B wrote:I ordered more Lipo. Not certain that I can make it, but we'll see.
SoSauty said he will bring extra batteries for us. You may want to send him a PM if you need more range. :)
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Feb 01 2012 5:04pm

My big problem will be getting things mounted and wired, not so much the batteries themselves.

My biggest problem is I'd really like to use the bikeE, and I need a 20" rear gearmotor for it. Not sure if that is possible on this time schedule.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mr.electric » Feb 01 2012 6:06pm

Extreme Green Machine ( Eric ) has an extra 20" bmc 1000 that he does not seem to use. It has been sitting at his house for over 6 months. It may be difficult to get ahold of him

with a stock ebike kit system on a 26 ( 9c ,20 amp controller) 12 s pack I wonder how many amp hours I would need to complete the half race. I have a 29 ah pack so far.
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