Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2012)

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Feb 12 2012 12:21pm

Hope everyone is okay. Looks like they got a lot of rain. I'm glad I didn't go since I would not have been prepared for rain.

Ilia told me he was probably not going to go, but he was sending his assistant who I talked to but I'm terrible with names and I don't remember his. Lyen was still going, I believe. Haven't heard from Luke lately but he had planned to go.

The website says results may be up Sunday nite.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Feb 12 2012 10:05pm


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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by adrian_sm » Feb 12 2012 10:10pm

Lyen! What happened? Looks like the bike broke or something.

Average speed of 14mph. : (
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Feb 12 2012 10:11pm

Lyen finished but after their 4pm cutoff. His average speed was 14 mph, there is probably a story there.

The only other ebike was Zach Kaplan who averaged over 25 mph!

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Sacman » Feb 12 2012 10:24pm

Only 2 ebikes showed and the only one that made it and placed averaged 25mph and had a 24-volt setup? :shock:
Curious to see what his rig looked like.

And yeah looks like Lyen probably had some equipment problems averaging only 14mph.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by ryan » Feb 12 2012 10:31pm

Who's Zach? And what does his bike look like? It said 24v. So I'm picturing a road bike with a 100-200w assist and big, shaved legs and Lycra.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by MadRhino » Feb 12 2012 10:39pm

ryan wrote:Who's Zach? And what does his bike look like? It said 24v. So I'm picturing a road bike with a 100-200w assist and big, shaved legs and Lycra.
And he finished behind a tandem, meaning that he has less motor power than a second pair of legs.

How many Ebikes on the start line ?
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Feb 12 2012 11:01pm

Or a recumbent with a helper motor.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by liveforphysics » Feb 12 2012 11:24pm

Damn! I totally missed this. :-( :(
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Feb 12 2012 11:38pm

Luke, you were going to tow me. :(

Looks like Lyen needed you for a tow!

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mvly » Feb 13 2012 12:40am

Yeah wished I could've gone. I would've probably beaten that zach guy. : ) jk. Hopefully next year I won't be swamp with these projects/midterms. By then I would be trained up for a bike ride at 24mph to beat that zach guy.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by SoSauty » Feb 13 2012 12:43am

Edward Lyen is your man. The 24V guy has some sort of special setup, never did get a close up look. 7:30am had Ed & I tucked up under the signup shelter drearly eyeing a somewhat heavy mist. Departures started around 8am but too wet for electrics. Met Mr.Bill, last yr.s 24V pacesetter, but he was 5weeks out from a broken leg and not competing. Seemed like a great supporter of e-bikes.

9:15 and mist was softer, Ed didn't think the wet would be a problem for my exposed Lipo. The bigger concern was his skinny wet tires with a tidy friction drive. I then discovered that during hasty packing I had the wrong battery harness and couldn't run my 2ndary Lipo's; instead of 2.1K to keep voltage up and have 45Ahrs/2K of juice, I'd only be carrying 36Ahrs/1.6K. Bout 9:30am we had the timer start us. Ed wanted to go slow. The start offerred a couple of miles gentle downslope and I went ahead on pedal power. 15min later, I was soaked to the bone with steady mist 30mile up/down 1,000' climb. At the 32mile checkpoint1 I had used 13.37Ahr/594W. Took a 10min walk around/carb break without seeing Edward.

Debated turning around and chocking up a 100Km run (vs 102mi). But was feeling a bit refreshed and knew the next 38mile would be easier. Made 51mile/turn around checkpoint2 having used 19Ahr/844W and was feeling hopeful I'd make it. Ed almost caught me as I started the return. A 15mph headwind kicked up for that southern stretch and it did me in. At the 70mile checkpoint3 had used 30/1.33K of my 36Ahr/1.6K and my 39V was dipping to 36V, the LVC of my controller (whereas it would only dip 0.2V early on). It was time for me to call it quits. Ed came in checkpoint3 around 2pm. Said his tires were too skinny but had power left and resiliently committed to the last 32mile run. 2:30pm we passed him on the road, he was still plugging away. The cutoff time I think was 4pm. 2hrs for Ed was possible with mostly downhill but there was a 5-15mph headwind to negate the helpful downhill.

I'm now reported as DNF, but with all my split times posted. Had some 17mph averages with 1 slower 12mph, could've finished 6.5hrs but brought the wrong lipo harness (rats). Should've waited for Ed but was late for a date 4 hrs away.

Lessons learned:
an easy to set cruise control is a necessity; I could only burst 1000W then watch it drop back to 100-400W, then burst again trying to get my 15sec cruise to set;

2K+ is advisable, I've never run my Lipo below 40V where the voltage swing was pronounced; could of made it with 45Ahr/<2K.

completely comfortable bike is a must, my seat pinched a butt nerve and the cheap forks bobbled the distance.

Gotta call Ed, he was the toughest e-biker there. I'll be there next year, suspect Ed will too (See you there Alan/mvly 'an others :!: ). E-bikers are as tough as the 100 bike purist that pedalled the distant.

There should be fotos and videos somewhere.
Last edited by SoSauty on Feb 14 2012 11:58am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Feb 13 2012 12:48am

Thanks for the report, and excellent job getting there and going that far!

I just got the bike running today that I was planning to take. I will be ready next year. :)

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Returned From The Race - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-

Post by Lyen » Feb 13 2012 5:15am

Hi everyone,

I'm back. My eyes were blur after riding in the rain with intermittent strong headwind for over 7 hours on the race day without wearing any eye protection. Some debris was still in my left eye until now.

Here is the whole story:

Who were there (ebikers):
SoSauty
Zach (MrBill's friend)
MrBill (not riding this time due to recovery mode from the last incident while he was riding his electric recumbent to meet up with me due to strong wind)
Me

What were the ebikes setup?
SoSauty:
Folding bike aluminum frame
BaFang rear geared hub motor
48V > tons of Turnigy Lipo batteries
Cycle Analyst (Large Screen)
Lyen 6 FET 3077 MarkII sensorless controller
Wheel size: 24"

MrBill's (Zach was the rider):
Custom Aluminum Recumbent
Super Kids "can type" BMC geared motor drive rear wheel
24V > LifePO4 battery from Valence Technology
Cycle Analyst (Large Screen)
Lyen 12 FET 3077 MarkII sensored controller
Wheel size: 20" front, 26" rear

Lyen (me):
Litespeed Vortex with titanium frame & carbon fiber fork
Adrian_SM Alpha Commuter Booster Kit
Turnigy 6374 200Kv RC motor
25.9V > 7S24P Panasonic NCR18650A 3100mah cells (1927 watt hours at 17 LBS or 7.75 Kg) > I have just finished assemble it the day before the race. See here.
Speedict bluetooth via HTC Touch Pro 2 (hacked and converted from Windows Mobile to Android 2.x, also modded the battery terminal for extended use)
Lyen 6 FET 3077 MarkII sensorless controller
GoPro Hero2 with LCD BacPac added (also modded the battery terminal for extended use)
DC-DC multi-purpose voltage converter
Multi-function switch
Wheel and tire size: 700/20c (pumped at 140 PSI)

Race result:
Zach > Completed
Lyen > Completed
SoSauty > needed more battery

How was the weather condition?
It was pouring pretty bad with headwind (at least more than half the time). The rain was unexpected at least on my side. I have noticed there were a few riders have backed out for safety reason.

What happened to SoSauty?
He was actually doing pretty good. He was at least 30 minutes quicker than me during the beginning of the race. Unfortunately, he has forgotten to bring the proper harness to attach with the extra lipo batteries. So he managed to finish about three quarter (75%) of the race before his battery setup was fully depleted. His total watt hour was around 1650 watt hours. He then had someone brought his ebike back.

What happened to Zach on MrBill's ebike?
I met him yesterday and had a chance to speak with Zach and MrBill for about an hour at the Grocery store from the starting line. While I was having a burrito at the grocery store, they told me Zach ran out of battery at around 1250 watt hours. The last 9 miles Zach had to pedal his way back to the finish line. MrBill actually brought the same battery as last time (which was supposed to be at least 1500 watt hours) but was assumed the LifePO4 was weaken a little with multiple uses from the past 5 year. I think for 5 years of use it is really good for the LifePO4 pack.

What happened to Lyen (me)?
I have decided to convert myself from racing mode to safety mode after I have noticed the following:
1. The 15 LBS bicycle with 17 LBS mounted at the rear rack (using a laptop side pannier) was very imbalance. It was causing a lot of twist left and right when I leave or even partially leave my hands off the handlebar. I was supposed to fabricate or have someone fabricate a custom aluminum enclosure to mount the battery pack with a more naturally balanced position but did not have enough time.
2. The rain was causing the pavement quite slippery. I had two incidents that I almost crashed. One was going too fast at around 20-25mph because of the skinny tires, another was because of the unforeseeable side wind.
3. The tires are not suitable for wet road condition at high speed (above 20mph)
4. My body temperature was dropped dramatically after the first two hours of continuous rain and wind. I was soaked and wet and was very worry I could not made it back. I mentally managed to force my body to function until the finish line was reached.
5. I was fully equipped with Lycras :mrgreen:
6. I could not clip in with the Shimano SPD cleat between the shoes and the pedals because it is very dangerous in the rain. Fortunately, my pedals have SPD on one side and platform on the other side.
7. The genuine GoPro Hero2 handlebar bracket cracked and got separated at around 50miles due to excessive vibration from the skinny tires. Luckily the modded terminal wires kept the GoPro Hero2 hanging after the mount broke off.

In safety mode, I rode slowly and my intend was to just make it back to the finish line. So I took my time, ate a few brownies at the checkpoints, chitchat with people and racers at checkpoints, and take leaks at a few trees. There was also a racer (named Alec if I remember correct) asked me for help to have someone pick him up at around 59 miles. He got a neck pain so he could not continue. I stopped for about half hour to accompany with him. I tried to call Bill for help but there was no cell sites for both Sprint (my phone) and Verizon (his phone). So I took his number down and also gave him Bill's mobile number. I then continue to reach the third check point and told one of the volunteer there to pick him up.

The setup for the ebike was energy efficient. The first half (first 51 miles) the Speedict indicated total watt hours used was 455Wh. I believe part of the reason was I coasted a lot and the advantage of the skinny low rolling resistance tires. I was very surprised I could coast at above 20mph for a very long duration (like miles after miles). I do not have the data recorded on my way back because the Speedict Android app caused the phone to crash (twice during the race). I am in the process of recharging the pack with the iCharger 3010b and I will report back the total capacity was used.

Since this is a role call thread. I will made another post about my electric bike setup. I have a lot to talk about my setup especially the Adrian_SM Commuter Booster Alpha kit was awesome. The friction drive did not let me down for the whole race even in the rain. I have inspected and confirmed there was zero mechanical failure or near zero degradation for the friction drive except the attached "3M Outdoor Thread" was partially degraded due to the wet tire had sands and small rocks stick to it during the tire rotation. I will have a long positive commentary/observation on the friction drive soon. :)

All in all, a mountain bike frame with wider tires is more suitable for racing in the rain. I will setup a backup ebike for the unforeseeable situation like this just in case next time.

Here are photos taken:

Prior the race:
MrBill and SoSauty:
Image

SoSauty and Lyen (me) > notice my bike on the right with the tires that were way too skinny for use in the rain:
Image

Registration Desk:
Image

Starting Line:
Image

I got passed by SoSauty:
Image

SoSauty finished his second checkpoint returning at around 52 miles:
Image

The fun factor to me was to let the roadies pass me on flat and catch up with them when going uphill with surprise. :twisted: See below:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

I want a set of those wheels :wink: :
Image
Image


I almost crash here (notice I went to the opposite lane trying to maneuver the bike back to a controllable situation):
Image

First Checkpoint at around 34 miles:
Image

MrBill's Recumbent Ebike with Zach riding:
Image

Other interesting race bikes:
Image
Image
Image

After the race:
MrBill and Lyen (me):
Image

The friction drive unit, controller, and battery survived and got the job done after the 102 miles race even in the rain:
Image

Video is being uploaded on Youtube. It may takes a while since the whole thing recorded was over 21GB on the GoPro Hero2 at 1080P. :)

SoSauty, thanks for the beef jerky! Chewing it while riding really helped pushing the man power to the extreme. :)
Last edited by Lyen on Aug 24 2013 4:39pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by adrian_sm » Feb 13 2012 6:47am

He lives. Great to hear you survived the event. Sounds like quite an epic ride with weather to challenge even hard core riders. Shame you had to take it so slow to stay upright. And great photos. How did you manage to keep it rolling for the whole race? Did you have it running off a DC-DC?

Well done.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by dogman dan » Feb 13 2012 7:05am

Man, that sounds like a real death race, in those conditions.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by SoSauty » Feb 13 2012 3:37pm

Hey Alan, I hope you don't mind me answering your PM on the thread here. Your questions sound pretty universal.

For me the beef jerky was great, a slow protein to burn. However, I'm borderline diebetic so starches and carbs spike and crash for me. The riders mostly depended on drinks, I think 1 was called Heeds, maybe sorta energy based and the other was some electrolyte Power drink. The main checkpoint was loaded with homemade garlic potatoes, brownies, drink mix, cookies, peantbutter crackers, bannanas, jerky, ect. . . everything you could want for a fast energy mid-ride boost.

Top speed depends on how fast you can ride and still stretch your batt pack to the finish. Can't speak for you, but I don't want to be spent and trudge pedal several miles up a 1% incline against a head wind to finish! The really efficient 24V BMS averaged mid-20s and 16-17mph average seems realistic for us regular Joe's. (We still need to start earlier than 9:30!)

But to your speed question: Slopes can be taken advantage of, either by tucking and resting, or by a hi-speed small motor running 100W and pedalling 25-30mph (such as a BMS speed motor). A direct drive motor might be equal to a geared, but I'm sceptical about its' cogging down hills and think the freewheeling of the geared gets the thumbs up on efficiency. There's some 7% and 1 9% slope, so 30mph might be max. A competitive guy like you could tack on 5+mph to that. Our sharpest turn was at the bottom of a hill and sub 20mph for me in the wet.

Folks seemed rather mixed reserved and friendly toward the electrics, the e-bikes are still those "unknown different bikes whose riders need some assist." Understandable as most could outpedal a typical e-bike regardless. And our Mr.Bill exhibited a strong interest in our electrics. We can count on him being the electric pacesetter next year. (?Alan B?)

I see this sort of 'Enduro' event as quite a calling to innovators, an excellent proving ground for e-bikes and still in its' infancy.
Last edited by SoSauty on Feb 14 2012 11:02am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by sk8norcal » Feb 13 2012 3:56pm

Alan B wrote:Lyen finished but after their 4pm cutoff. His average speed was 14 mph, there is probably a story there.

The only other ebike was Zach Kaplan who averaged over 25 mph!
wow, Zach's time is impressive,
I believe he's a strong rider,
he's been riding recumbents for a long time..

http://zachkaplancycles.com/

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Feb 13 2012 4:46pm

Thanks for the reply here, Will. Great info. The setup I was planning to go with is the bikeE recumbent with BMC gearmotor. I just started putting it together on 1 Feb, it wasn't enough time for a part time effort for me to get through all the issues. By Sunday Feb 12 (day after the race) I had it working with a small 12S battery pack and it does about 25 mph. It seems to be able to do that up a slight incline as well. I'm thinking I might go to 15S on it, that would be about 30 mph top end which is pretty fast for me. On a long ride like this I would think that 30 mph would use too much power unless fully faired and that's not something I want to do. So 20-25 is probably more like it. My pedaling ability is not that great, though it is improving as I do more. I was always a strong hiker but never did much long distance cycling.

As I understand it Zach was riding Mr Bill's recumbent which I believe has 1.6 kwh of battery and has windshield and side fairings as shown above, though it can be ridden in different configurations depending on the weather and especially wind factors. I would be happy to do as well as he did. Heck, I'd be happy to finish, or even just start! :)

Sounds like a great event and having good relations with the other bike riders is excellent. I would also like to see Ham Radio added to the event to cover the communications better where cellphones fall short. I haven't looked at the repeater maps to see what's available on the route but I suspect it would be helpful. Riding along listening to a frequency is so much better than dealing with the complexities of a phone. I used to have a 2 meter Ham Radio set up on a motorcycle and it was easier to use than a radio in the car, with microphone and speakers integrated into the helmet and push to talk on the handlebar and the radio and antenna on the bike. I could run the throttle, clutch, shift and talk on the radio with no pilot workload issues. Of course you need to learn the bike controls well before you add the radio, but the distraction level is very low with a half duplex 2 way radio, nothing like trying to deal with a phone.

So thanks for all the info and anything else that would be useful for next year would be good to share here and reread during preparations for next time.

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Re: Returned From The Race - 102 Miles Enduro in California

Post by mrbill » Feb 13 2012 7:16pm

Lyen wrote: Here is the whole story:

[...]
Hi Edward (and everyone else):

Thanks for writing up a good summary. Saved me some trouble.

I'm working on the photos for the event. I took 357 altogether, but I won't use all of them. I'll post an update later when I have something online.

Just a few clarifications:

The batteries Zach was using on the Power Gold Rush (semi-custom frame made by Easy Racers in Watsonville)

http://mrbill.homeip.net/albums/power_g ... ndex4.html

were a combination of a pair of series-wired Valence RT-U1, each nominally 12 volts, 40Ah (4-cell LiFeMgPO4) that I bought in fall of 2006 when they were the only domestically-available large format lithium turn-key solution with warranty support that I could find. Augmenting these were a pair of 24v/10Ah batteries made from PSI cells that I bought about 4 years ago. I wired the Valence batteries and the two PSI battery packs in parallel using a Schottky diode (ST Micro STPS60L30CW). I figured the small energy loss of the diode was less time-expensive than stopping to fumble around with battery plugs, especially since Zach wasn't as familiar with the wiring as I am.

http://mrbill.homeip.net/albums/schottk ... index.html

This assemblage should be good for about 1500 watt-hours when new. I hadn't run them down 100% in quite a while, so I didn't know the true cutoff. I have about 350 deep cycles on the Valence batteries, and maybe 100 deep cycles on the PSI batteries. Based on how much I was able to put back into the batteries when I recharged them I estimate that these have lost about 8-9% of their capacity. I suspect that most of this loss is related to age and not cycling.

I told Zach at the start that I thought (optimistically) the batteries would be good for about 1450 watt-hours before being exhausted, so he rode with that target in mind. Unfortunately, Zach got 1368 watt-hours out of the system before it died for good about 9 miles from the finish. Fortunately, there wasn't too much climbing remaining on the course at that point, although he did remind me afterward (more than once) that there were a few spots where he had to pull 115lbs of bike uphill.

If you look at Zach's split times

http://megamonster.lowkeyhillclimbs.com ... plits.html

you can see his speed between the checkpoints dropped to just over 20mph on the last leg. This leg should have seen an average speed in the high-20's or even 30+ mph if he had had power, as the road is mostly downhill. If he had had power until the finish Zach may well have beaten my time from last year, a time I set on a more aerodynamic bike than the Gold Rush he was riding. Zach's advantage is that he can put out about the same (human) power I can, but he is about 40 lbs lighter so can climb the hills faster. And, hills are where the most time is lost.

I recently upgraded my controller from the Headline controller to one of Lyen's Mark II 12FET sensored controllers using 3077's for maximum efficiency at lower voltages. The controller worked flawlessly (as far as I know) but for the fact that it was sending a speedometer signal to the CycleAnalyst, conflicting with the separately-wired pickup from the front wheel. The result was no speed or distance reading except when the motor was barely turning. If I had been able to ride a bike I could have test-ridden the Gold Rush with the Lyen controller before the event and would have discovered this problem, but I've been off the bike for the last 5 weeks recovering from a broken leg. Even riding on the trainer I wouldn't have noticed as the pickup is on the non-spinning front wheel.

Last year I rode my Power Pursuit

http://mrbill.homeip.net/albums/megamon ... ge_38.html

and was carrying two similar (but newer) Valence RT-U1 batteries (for 24 volts nominal) and two supplementary packs of nominal 24v/10Ah each made from early blue-wrapper Headway cells that are only good for about 1-2C discharge rate in spite of what their spec might claim. I managed to get 1323 watt-hours out of them and still had juice left at the finish, although they were starting to get soft at that point.

Next year I'm hoping to try to beat my 2011 time, to see more E-S folks show up and give it a go, to have nicer weather, and to see Zach out again on his own custom e-bike.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Feb 13 2012 7:27pm

Thanks for the details, MrBill. Hope your leg heals well. Hopefully a few more of us will be ready next time, and the weather will cooperate! :)

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Lyen   10 kW

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Feb 14 2012 5:57am

My iCharger 3010b finally finished charging. It puts back 59.25A to the 7S24P pack. Therefore, 102 miles (164Km) for less than 17 LBS (7.76Kg) with about 1534 watt hours was used out of total capacity of 1927 watt hours. I think that is not bad for the friction drive unit.

It was a pain in the butt to solder 168 cells together (7S24P). The weight without the tabs and solder, wires and tape was about the same as a 16 lbs bowling ball.

Image

I think for next year, I will probably try something different or better optimization from the existing ebikes. Perhaps a folding bike just like SoSauty brought such as a Dahon folder. I love trying new stuff. Those Velomobiles are beautiful, wish they are electrified.

The 21gig HD video is still uploading at 39% on Youtube as of this writing. I need a faster broadband. :roll:
Last edited by Lyen on Feb 27 2012 11:10am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by mrbill » Feb 14 2012 9:27pm

Folks:

Here's my blog entry on last Saturday's epic MegaMonster ride down Highway 25 and back.

http://mrbill.homeip.net/bikeBlog.php?2 ... 2012.02.11

If you don't want to read my long-winded report, just click through to the photos.
Bill Bushnell
http://mrbill.homeip.net/
Bike build thread can be seen here.

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Alan B » Feb 14 2012 10:25pm

Great story, Bill, and nice battery pack, Lyen. What does the No 5 display on the readout tell us?

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Re: Race Role Call - 102 Miles Enduro in California (02-11-2

Post by Lyen » Feb 15 2012 6:45am

adrian_sm wrote:He lives. Great to hear you survived the event. Sounds like quite an epic ride with weather to challenge even hard core riders. Shame you had to take it so slow to stay upright. And great photos. How did you manage to keep it rolling for the whole race? Did you have it running off a DC-DC?

Well done.

- Adrian
Yes, I survived. Your Commuter Booster kit survived too. LOL

You are correct that I was using the DC-DC converter to feed the GoPro. Here is the trick to keep the devices rolling for over 7 hours:
Image
Last edited by Lyen on Feb 15 2012 7:00am, edited 1 time in total.
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