Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

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gartmu   10 mW

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by gartmu » Jan 10 2012 8:33pm

Gartmu:
Can u tell us what is marking on the motor? 26(11), 20(9), 20(8), etc..
The marking is 16(11).
Without pedaling is this? if so, this was what I needed to hear! is all I need!

210mm spokes to any wheel 26 "? How many radios are needed?
This is without pedaling.

210mm spokes in a double wall rim. You need 36 spokes.

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by jateureka » Jan 11 2012 3:06pm

I ordered the 36V 350W front BPM motor in a 201 rpm winding from BMS Battery and received a 26 (13) motor. I also asked for the sensorless version with waterproof connector and received the sensored version.

Their 13 gauge spokes will lace this motor into a 24" Alex DX2418 double wall rim with eyelets, just make sure you lube the eyelets.
I wanted 169mm spokes but they were out of stock so I got 170mm instead, which worked OK with the 12mm nipples supplied because of the double walled rim, but 169mm would have been better.

Because the motor flanges are not centred between the mounts (5mm offset for front BPM) you need to use slightly higher tension on the spokes on the left side (disc brake side) than the right to centre the wheel. I went with 85kgf on right and 95kgf on left and I'll check again after 100km. The better way would be to use 1-2mm shorter spokes on the LHS.

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/ Gives ideal (14G?) spoke lengths of LHS = 166mm, RHS = 168mm for hub diameter of 168mm and flange distances to centre line of wheel being 12.75 LHS and 22.75 RHS. Spokes with the bends on the outside of the flange are leading.
Last edited by jateureka on Apr 03 2012 6:59pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by gartmu » Jan 11 2012 9:32pm

I also asked for the sensorless version with waterproof connector and received the sensored version
Thats not a problem, just dont connect the hall sensor wires and your motor works sensorless. You can even cut the hall sensor wires if you want.

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by jateureka » Jan 12 2012 12:55am

Yes, I know that, but I wanted the waterproof connector that screws together.
E-bikes: Bafang 8FUN; Mac; Ezee; FreeGo; Aprilia 7s LiPo; eLation V2; TerraTrike recumbent
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by rizo » Jan 13 2012 1:59am

Hi,

bmsbattery answer me this:
48V 500w rpm393, Front. code 11.
48V 500w rpm393, rear, code 10 .
Gartmu, is your motor front or rear?

regards

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by gartmu » Jan 13 2012 10:51pm

msbattery answer me this:
48V 500w rpm393, Front. code 11.
48V 500w rpm393, rear, code 10 .
Gartmu, is your motor front or rear?
My motor is front. The code 10 is about 30rpm faster than code 11 so it should have a no load speed of about 420rpm not 393rpm. Just remember when increasing speed you also decrease torque in the same proportion.

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by itselectric » Jan 14 2012 1:37am

gartmu wrote:
Gartmu:
Can u tell us what is marking on the motor? 26(11), 20(9), 20(8), etc..
The marking is 16(11).
gartmu:
I have never seen a 16(11) Bafang motor. Was it a typo 26(11)?
Ken

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by gartmu » Jan 14 2012 3:49am

I have never seen a 16(11) Bafang motor. Was it a typo 26(11)?
Yes, it´s a 16(11), here´s a picture.
BPM.jpg
8FUN BPM 48V500W 16(11)
BPM.jpg (155.02 KiB) Viewed 5098 times

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by itselectric » Jan 14 2012 10:27am

gartmu wrote:
I have never seen a 16(11) Bafang motor. Was it a typo 26(11)?
Yes, it´s a 16(11), here´s a picture.
BPM.jpg
gartmu:
thank you so much for sharing the picture! So i guess the wattage may somewhat depends on wheel size or the first 2 number code.

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by gartmu » Jan 14 2012 11:35am

So i guess the wattage may somewhat depends on wheel size or the first 2 number code.
The wattage of the motor is always 500W. The 16(11) means that a code 11 motor in a 16" wheel will result in a max speed of about 25Km/h, the max limit in europe. Of course if you mount that motor in a 26" wheel it will give more than 45Km/h.

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by motomech » Feb 18 2012 1:23am

Scottyf wrote:This is what freaks me out a little about BMS battery.
You can get both the 36v and 48v versions in 393rpm.

Now given the rated volts @ 36v and 48v this would mean that the 36v version should be a different wind to the the 48v to enable the same rpm.

Can anyone claify this?
Yeah, it's confusing as hell.
I've been trying to get my head around this for a while now and I think your observation that,

Quote-"Now given the rated volts @ 36v and 48v this would mean that the 36v version should be a different wind to the the 48v to enable the same rpm."

Is the key to understanding what BPM winds BMS Battery actually offers, at least the higher rpm winds.

Here is what I think I know,

Based on what Rizo said,

Quote "...bmsbattery answer me this:
48V 500w rpm393, Front. code 11.
48V 500w rpm393, rear, code 10 ...."

Bms Battery only offers three BPM high-speed winds, there are,

The 48V, rear mount w/ a no-load rpm listed as 393, is a Code 10[310 rpm @ 36v].

The 48v Frt. mount w/ a no-load rpm listed as 393, is a Code 11[285 rpm @ 36V].

And according to jateureka,

Quote-"I ordered the 36V 350W front BPM motor in a 201 rpm winding from BMS Battery and received a 26 (13) motor."

So is't possible that,

The 36V frt. or rear mount w/ a no-load rpm listed as 393, is a Code 13[225{my est.}rpm @ 36V].

Has anyone recieved a 36V[393 rpm]rear and can confirm that it is a Code 13? The Ebike CA sim. indicates that it is closer to a Code 11 or Code 12.

These codes seem to jive with the top speeds for BPM faster winds that I have noted here in ES.

Concerning the slower winds, I'm still rather perplexed. Both Gartmu and d8veh have indicated that the 201 rpm winds produce Euro-legal speeds of 20 KpH @ 36V, so I will assume that,

Both the frt. and rear 48V slow-winds motors are Code 8's[201 rpm @ 36V].

But where does that leave the 36V slow winds? Could they be the same as the 48's[V]?

Code 8's?

Anyone want to comment on this remarkably obtuse system[perhaps a plot to make us mind-dead?]. I hope I haven't muddied the waters even more.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by miuan » Feb 18 2012 5:53am

motomech: I'm afraid you've got it all the other way round. Reality is, the lower the code number, the higher the speed. Actually, I'm pretty confident to say the code means number of copper turns, so assuming similar motor size to the MACs, the code 10 will be as fast as the 10 turn MAC etc. In my applications this has proven correct as I own and ride both of these motors.

More on the topic can be seen here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=12582
The numbers don't exactly copy what BMSBattery indicates, but it's in the ballpark.

When purchasing from BMSBattery:
393 @ 36V = code 8
393 @ 48V = code 10 (mine does 40mph in 700c rim for short periods at 74V)
201 @ 36V = code 13 (a friend of mine runs it at 74V and 26in, does about 30mph)
201 @ 48V = code 17? (I've ordered this one for my dad, will be able to confirm soon)

I know BMSBattery could do a better explanation of different wind speeds, but most should get it easily. Hell, one year ago, they had no speeds indicated online, and I had to spend almost an hour to see which code designation is in stock. So it's a huge step forward (for the chinese fwiw).

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by casainho » Feb 21 2012 2:56pm

gartmu wrote:I bought recently the 48V500W 393rpm from bmsbattery, the motor manufacturer data is November 2011, with the KU123 controler. It gives 43Km/h in flat and climbs at more than 30Km/h in 6% hills. The spoke lenght for 26" rim is 210mm, you need to use 13G spokes, at first I used 14G spokes but every 1000Km one spoke broke. 14G spokes are not recommended by the manufacturer.
Gartmu, thanks for sharing!! I am looking to buy the same motor and is great to see all the info you shared here, thanks ;-)

One question: you alredy told you get the 43km/h in flat without pedaling. Could you please tell us what is the speed if you pedal at moderate force? and what is the speed with the wheel on the air (maximum speed of the motor)?

My actual electric bicycle is this one (V2.1 in Portuguese):
Image

It is a Cute-85 motor for 16'' but installed on a 26'' wheel, 250W, 24V. Battery 24V 25Ah. I do 60km (30km go and more 30km to return) in one charge, 2 times a week. Now, I think in changing for the Bafang 500W 48V and battery 48V 10A... I would like to have more speed... top speed with Cute-85 is about 35km/h on flat and with me pedaling at moderate speed.

Medium speed of about 30km/h on my travel of 30km + 30km (V2.0 in Portuguese)
Image

But I started with a 24V 180W motor and 24V 10A battery (V1.0 in Portuguese):
Image

The components for V2 were all bought on BMS Battery. The battery for V1 were bought on BMS Battery.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by d8veh » Feb 22 2012 5:35am

BMSBattery only do 201 RPM or 393 RPM. The 393 RPM won't be very efficient as it's meant for small wheels. You'll waste a lot of battery, which will compromise your range. Your best bet is to use a 36v 201 RPM at 48v, which will give about 35 kph and very good climbing power. Only use the 393 RPM if your journey is flat. Other suppliers do the other versions of the motor. I would say the one you want is code 11 or 12. You might be able to get one from Cell-man. I know EVassemble were doing them, but you have to get your own rim and spokes.

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by cwah » Feb 22 2012 6:03am

D8veh, so the best bet is low RPM and very high voltage in order to have optimal range?

I mean it's better to have a BPM 201RPM at 74V rather than a BPM 393RPM at 36V, if they both reach the same max speed?
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by jbond » Feb 22 2012 12:06pm

Another data point. I have a BPM marked 36v350w 26(11) which I take to be a code 11 designed for a 26" wheel. I've measured a no-load speed of 23.5mph (cycle computer calibrated against GPS). Typical flat out top speed is about ~20mph. Working all that back gives a no load rpm of 308 on a nominal 36v freshly charged Li-NiCoMn 10s battery.

The BPM was supplied with an Alien Aurora bike. The controller appears to be a Bafang one with a multi-wire to a wiring concentrator and 3 speed control at the front of the bike. The figures above are in "high speed" mode.

See also this old post that details BPM specs.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=12582

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by d8veh » Feb 22 2012 6:36pm

cwah wrote:D8veh, so the best bet is low RPM and very high voltage in order to have optimal range?

I mean it's better to have a BPM 201RPM at 74V rather than a BPM 393RPM at 36V, if they both reach the same max speed?
The most important thing is to match the motor to your normal speed that you expect to be going. It can make a significant difference to your range if you have a mismatch. When a 393rpm motor is laboring up a steep hill at 200 rpm, efficiency could be as low as 60% compared with the maximum of 78%, while as a 201rpm motor would be achieving the 78%, but you only get half the top speed.
@Jbond. That sounds about right, so a 201 rpm would achieve about 2/3 of 24 mph, which is 16mph at 36v and about 22mph at 48v. Mine's about 1mph up on that.

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by motomech » Feb 23 2012 12:02pm

d8veh wrote:BMSBattery only do 201 RPM or 393 RPM. The 393 RPM won't be very efficient as it's meant for small wheels. You'll waste a lot of battery, which will compromise your range. Your best bet is to use a 36v 201 RPM at 48v, which will give about 35 kph and very good climbing power. Only use the 393 RPM if your journey is flat. Other suppliers do the other versions of the motor. I would say the one you want is code 11 or 12. You might be able to get one from Cell-man. I know EVassemble were doing them, but you have to get your own rim and spokes.
I'm glad you dropped in, as I've read all your posts at PedElecs.
In your review of BPM/Giant[rear wheel mount], you said,

QUOTE "...from BMSbattery in China. The kit comprises 350w motor (code 12) in wheel, 350w 9 FET controller, throttle, pedal sensor and brakes with switches."

But above you seem to indicate that this wind is not available from BMS Battery. Also[above, in different post], Miuan states,

QUOTE "When purchasing from BMSBattery:
393 @ 36V = code 8
393 @ 48V = code 10"

While Gartmu said

Quote "msbattery answer me this:
48V 500w rpm393, Front. code 11.
48V 500w rpm393, rear, code 10 ."

I really hate to belabor this, but I'm still unclear as to what winds are available from BMS Battery.
Can you shed any more light on this?

Thanx,
Signed Confused

P.S. Also, during your review of the BPM 12 you stated that you were unable to make a top speed run[speed limited]. Have you since been able to make one?
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by Scottyf » Feb 23 2012 1:41pm

When myself and D8veh brought our bpm's from bmsbattery you could specify a wind to your requirement. It was slower to get the motors but you had what you wanted.
Now they only do 4 winds and that's it. Either a high speed or high torque. No inbetween winds.

I also have the code 12 @ 36v which is intended for 20mph in a 24inch wheel. A mid wind. But I laced it in a 700c wheel.

You definetly have less of a choice at the moment. There also seriously more expensive than they used to be. You could get a full kit delivered to the uk for £150 or $225
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by motomech » Feb 23 2012 3:34pm

Gee, and here I thought the Chinese were industrious :roll:

Thanx for the explanation Scott.
Motomech

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by Scottyf » Feb 23 2012 4:30pm

If you contact bafang directly you can get what ever you like. But it will cost a little more than bmsbattery.
It's worth noting. They do single orders but it's obviously expensive and they will only supply the motor. Not laced etc.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by miuan » Feb 23 2012 4:46pm

d8veh wrote:The most important thing is to match the motor to your normal speed that you expect to be going. It can make a significant difference to your range if you have a mismatch. When a 393rpm motor is laboring up a steep hill at 200 rpm, efficiency could be as low as 60% compared with the maximum of 78%, while as a 201rpm motor would be achieving the 78%, but you only get half the top speed.
You do get half speed with slow wind, but DO NOT get 60% efficiency with fast one while the slow is doing 78. The difference can be couple per cent, not more. I go as far as assuming you get even more losses in the controller/wiring than the difference in motor efficiency, if you decide to use same voltages on both systems. Simply because you need to half the voltage and double the current with the fast motor, while just passing all the voltage to the motor with the slow one.

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by motomech » Feb 23 2012 4:48pm

Yes, but at that point, it would seem to make more sense to buy a Mac from Cell_man.
The reason to buy from BMS Batt., at least for me, is get some other stuff[like a bulk charger, or two kits]and consolidate on the shipping.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by motomech » Feb 23 2012 5:01pm

miuan wrote:
d8veh wrote:The most important thing is to match the motor to your normal speed that you expect to be going. It can make a significant difference to your range if you have a mismatch. When a 393rpm motor is laboring up a steep hill at 200 rpm, efficiency could be as low as 60% compared with the maximum of 78%, while as a 201rpm motor would be achieving the 78%, but you only get half the top speed.
You do get half speed with slow wind, but DO NOT get 60% efficiency with fast one while the slow is doing 78. The difference can be couple per cent, not more. I go as far as assuming you get even more losses in the controller/wiring than the difference in motor efficiency, if you decide to use same voltages on both systems. Simply because you need to half the voltage and double the current with the fast motor, while just passing all the voltage to the motor with the slow one.
Yes, the Sim. at Ebike CA would seem to bear that out. I see losses in the low single digit range[comparing, for example, the BMC fast and slow winds].
There has been a solid argument here that the highest system efficiency is attained by over-volting a slow wind motor.
By as Dogman[and others]have pointed out, the differences are over-shadowed by things like, what jacket are you wearing or what tires[and pressure]are you running.
I'm thinking that, except for a hyper-miler, system efficiency should be way down on the list of factors to consider.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Post by d8veh » Feb 23 2012 6:08pm

motomech wrote: I'm glad you dropped in, as I've read all your posts at PedElecs.
In your review of BPM/Giant[rear wheel mount], you said,

QUOTE "...from BMSbattery in China. The kit comprises 350w motor (code 12) in wheel, 350w 9 FET controller, throttle, pedal sensor and brakes with switches."

But above you seem to indicate that this wind is not available from BMS Battery. Also[above, in different post], Miuan states,

QUOTE "When purchasing from BMSBattery:
393 @ 36V = code 8
393 @ 48V = code 10"

While Gartmu said

Quote "msbattery answer me this:
48V 500w rpm393, Front. code 11.
48V 500w rpm393, rear, code 10 ."

I really hate to belabor this, but I'm still unclear as to what winds are available from BMS Battery.
Can you shed any more light on this?

P.S. Also, during your review of the BPM 12 you stated that you were unable to make a top speed run[speed limited]. Have you since been able to make one?
Scotty's explained it pretty well. I wouldn't take too much notice of the rpm stated by BMSBattery: Go by the code number and the RPMs stated in Wurly's post at the beginning of this thread. When you run a code 11 at 48v, you get 33% more RPM than the same motor at 36v. I'm not sure whether there is any difference internally between a 48v and 36v motor. Perhaps somebody here knows. We believe that the code number corresponds with the number of turns of wire round the poles, which has a direct bearing on speed and so does the voltage.

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