Electrified BikeE for Comfort and Range

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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StudEbiker
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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by StudEbiker » Feb 26, 2012 12:17 am

Alan B wrote:Finally got the plumbing done.

I take it by these suggestions that the stock brakes are a bit weak. That's my impression so far, but I haven't done any big descents yet with mine. Are they up to it? Or do I need to upgrade first??

The bikeE steerer tube may be 1-1/4", isn't it?

How do the drums compare to disc?

Since it is a steel fork I suppose a disc mount could be welded on.

The Shimano XTR V Brakes I put on my Mountain bike are pretty nice. Not sure if they would fit on the bikeE, but they might.
The drum brakes are allegedly very close in braking power to discs, especially those 90mm S-A hubs. Also, they are all weather and basically maintenance free for about 10k miles.

I tried an XTR V brake on the front and had clearance issues. :(

I have used the brakes coming down steep descents, they do okay, but they don't inspire confidence!

One of the issues though is you don't want too much braking up front on one of these because of how the weight is distributed. Very light in the front, so too much brake and you can lock up the front. :? I think a big disc up front is probably overkill. I would really love to try the hydro rim brakes. I've been keeping an eye out for a used set for cheap, but no luck yet.

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Feb 26, 2012 11:16 pm

Battery Wiring Harness

Image

Today I made a battery wiring harness (started, not finished). Based on the earlier design but using crimp sleeve connectors. These are designed to hold up to 5 #12 wires, but in my design I have four #12 and one #10 so these sleeves are REALLY FULL. I crimped them with a 6 gauge die in my old West Mountain Radio PowerPole Crimper.

The wire is difficult to get into the sleeve, and once crimped it is locked in. I will insulate the sleeves with thick wall heatshrink later on.

This harness is set up for #12 current path of equal resistance to each of 12S3P Zippy batteries, #10 main current path, and #12 charge connectors on each of the two battery banks.

It is very compact to fit in the tight battery case here:

Image

Above shows the bottom layer of batteries, one parallel bank, and the balance wiring and Methods HVC/LVC board.

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 01, 2012 12:52 am

Sure would be nice to have a little more room in this nice SeaHorse case. The harness I made is taking more space than is available. May have to make another one more carefully designed for the space. May need longer wires just to get to the space available for connections.

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 01, 2012 11:35 pm

The hydraulic crimper arrived. Looks nice. No testing yet.

Took a run to the hardware store tonite.

Picked up some really thick heatshrink, some of the small copper crimp sleeves, and a ten foot section of "vinyl downspout". This stuff looks quite useful for batteries. It is 2" by 3" so the Turnigy fits with 1" to spare, but the Zippy 6S 5AH packs fill the tube nicely, leaving room for some wires to pass by. It is thin and light and somewhat flexible, not brittle like PVC. The inside size is just under 2-1/4 by 3". The Zippy packs are under 7" long so six of them is 42" plus some space for connections and balance boards, easily under 50".

Taking a tape measure to the bikeE we find:

Above the top of the frame beam is about 20-24", depending on where the seat is positioned. With my long legs there is about 24" available.

Under the frame beam is 30 inches to where the cables come out.

Six Zippys 6S8AH are about 1KWH and takes a bit more than 42" of this rectangular vinyl pipe. Could split the battery into the two halves of three Zippys in parallel each and get 12S 24AH in a pair of 24" long pipe batteries. These could go above and below the beam, or on either side of the beam under the seat but spaced out a bit to miss the forks. The motor controller could go right at the aft end of the tube under the beam.

This is very tempting. Anyone else done this? Others have used this vinyl downspout pipe on some builds, but not a recumbent that I recall.

So should I make a vinyl tube battery for the bikeE?

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 3:26 pm

Took a closer look at the battery situation today. I'm going to try a vinyl downspout tube battery. Three Zippy 6S 8AH in parallel in each 24" tube. One above the frame, another below.

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by docnjoj » Mar 03, 2012 5:55 pm

I have a E-Bikee with a rack just under the seat. It could house your batteries easily and these racks are still sold. Might be an option?
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 5:59 pm

I'll have to look for those. Didn't know they were still available.

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 6:13 pm

Not easy to find, BikeE underseat racks.

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by docnjoj » Mar 03, 2012 6:44 pm

Here is one that could work. Not cheep though. It seems that Bike-e parts are getting more difficult to find.

http://www.calhouncycle.com/productcart ... roduct=118
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Alan B
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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 6:55 pm

docnjoj wrote:Here is one that could work. Not cheep though. It seems that Bike-e parts are getting more difficult to find.

http://www.calhouncycle.com/productcart ... roduct=118
otherDoc
Thanks for the link. Looks like a good rack. Not sure if it will fit the square beam of the BikeE...

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 8:26 pm

Installed the Big Apple tire and thornproof tube on the front wheel, and moved the thumb throttle to the right between the brake and shifter. Had to leave a gap so the throttle didn't hang up on a protrusion from the shifter. Adjusted and tested the mirror. Removed the temporary batteries so now it is pedal powered. Started making the new battery setup with 2x3 vinyl downspout. Ordered more vet-wrap.

Next need to make a new wiring harness for the batteries in the square tubes configuration.

Nice weather here today, over 70F, and going to be warmer tomorrow. :)

I need to break out the hydraulic crimper and get busy... :)

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 8:59 pm

Bad News

The zippy batteries fit nicely in the 2x3 vinyl downspout pipe... right up to the wiring pcboard where they get a little taller and wedge.

Back to the drawing board... :(

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by ddk » Mar 03, 2012 9:05 pm

Alan B wrote:Bad News

The zippy batteries fit nicely in the 2x3 vinyl downspout pipe... right up to the wiring pcboard where they get a little taller and wedge.

Back to the drawing board... :(
were you using the small tubing or the large?
just wondering... it seems a clever solution for packaging LiPo sticks.

*edit* I see you were using the smaller down tube.
It's also available in a larger size of about 3x5
Last edited by ddk on Mar 03, 2012 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 9:08 pm

They only had one size at Home Depot. It is 2" by 3". What is the other size??

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by ddk » Mar 03, 2012 9:11 pm

HD would have to special order it but ~3x5
I know it's available
used it on my house in 2003 :lol:
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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 9:15 pm

It looks like there is some square stuff, and some 3x4 inch. Unfortunately that's probably too big.

The Turnigy batteries fit nicely in the 2x3. There is almost an inch available for wiring, so lots of room. Unfortunately more batteries are required and that is a problem unless I downsize the pack.

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by ddk » Mar 03, 2012 9:26 pm

I'll look into the 2x3 for my own use
Not really familiar with your bike but I just wanted to lend you some information.
Staying with the standard sizes is always less expensive


would welding two tubes together be an option for you?
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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 10:25 pm

Really need 2x3-1/2" for these Zippy batteries. Just need another bit of space, even a quarter inch would probably do. Several solutions have fallen just shy of adequate space, unfortunately.

Thanks for the info!

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 10:27 pm

I suppose that cutting two tubes and cementing/welding them together could produce a taller channel.

Thanks for the idea. :)

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 10:50 pm

Battery Plan E

My apologies if this feels like a roller coaster ride. So many plan changes!

This may work out better than I had expected. It is a bit more work, but it is coming together better.

So, I'll take the vinyl downspout and slice off about 1/2" so there is a 2x2.5 inch "U" left. Put a layer of 1/4" foam in the bottom, then the batteries, then lay in the wiring. Add another layer of 1/4 inch foam on top. Then take another "U" piece inverted and slide it over the top, or interleave it, whichever works better. Push it down until the batteries are grasped by the foam. Vet-wrap this tube in several places to compress the foam a bit and keep it in compression. This will lock in the batteries, wiring, and make a compact package that is protected on the sides by 2 layers of vinyl downspout material, and on the top and bottom by one layer plus the foam.

To do this I'll probably have to dig out the table saw to rip the plastic. Carefully and Safely.

There is hope for this yet! :)


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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2012 11:28 pm

Thanks!

Above is a link that shows using the 2x3 vinyl downspout material to house Bosch fatpacks, and expand the height 3/8" to make them fit properly. They did this by cutting and splicing with PVC cement. very similar to what I need here. :)

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 04, 2012 9:05 am

How can Vinyl Downspout material make a useful battery housing?

I received one PM asking about that, so I'm sure others are wondering as well. I need to add some photos, but it is 5am and I'm not going to get out of this warm bed yet, and the best light for photos is hours away. So I'll try to describe it without using the requisite 1,000 words. :)

I have 6S packs from both Turnigy at 5AH and Zippy at 8AH. I could use either for the bikeE but the Zippy require fewer interconnects and as it turns out they fit the downspout tubing better, except they don't quite fit. More details in a moment.

Part of this process is affected by me getting anxious to get this bikeE on the road. Much of my Turnigy pack is tied up on the Mountain bike so I can use the Zippy more easily without disturbing the already working Mountain bike. I have a few loose Turnigy packs, but only 500 watt hours. I have six of the Zippy and they are (a bit less than) 200 watt hours each. My goal is to put six Zippy packs on the bike for now. That will give me 1200 watt hours optimistically so perhaps I will have 900-1000 useable watt hours and give me a 50 mile range riding efficiently. The seatback, rear tail and underseat areas will all be available to carry other things. The batteries will be out of the way.

Spacewise on the bikeE I have 24 inches on top of the main beam, and 30 inches below. So we can take three Zippy 6S 8AH packs which are each seven inches long, and place them end to end on top of the beam and have a pack that is 21 inches long. The other three similarly packaged below the beam. I'm making these packs 24 inches long to allow some room for connections and the HVCLVC pc board.

This works out especially well for me since I'm planning to use 12S, so each of these two "tube packs" can be 6S with three 8AH packs in parallel. If I make them with the output connector being a 4mm dual banana plug (like a Turnigy battery) they will plug into my already made wiring adapters that series the packs and feeds the Deans that came on the controller.

So I will cut the top of the 24" long vinyl downspout tube off making a "U" channel, lay in some foam, lay in the 3 batteries end to end, lay in wiring, more foam, invert another cut U tube down over that and slide it down till the batteries are tightly captured, and tape or vet-wrap the two U's together into a tubular pack 2x3.5x24 inches long. Then these tube battery packs will be mounted above and below the bikeE beams, probably with vetwrap for now.

For charging I'm getting a Hyperion 1420i so I can balance charge the whole pack at once.

Most of the effort to do this is in making the wiring fit into this long packaging.

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 04, 2012 1:26 pm

Uploaded 24 new photos to the ebikeE album:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1158081452 ... directlink

Showing the new front tire, removed batteries, new location of thumb throttle, battery fit in 2x3 vinyl downspout pipe, and the wiring harness that I made that won't quite fit in the SE300 case.

Here are a couple of them:

Image

Image

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Re: ebikeE Recumbent Testing - it's alive!

Post by Alan B » Mar 04, 2012 2:56 pm

Variable height battery tube

Here are a couple photos showing the 2x3 vinyl downspout material being used as a battery holder. One side was cut off (do this carefully), and two U sections used to create a variable size battery tube:

Image

And now with the top U section slid down over the lower section:

Image
Last edited by Alan B on Mar 05, 2012 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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