Quality throttle?

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veloman   1 GW

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Quality throttle?

Post by veloman » Jan 28 2012 6:29pm

Are there any quality throttles out there? It seems they all break sooner or later, those run of the mill Chinese ones....

It pissed me off today, I was going up a hill, putting normal pressure on the throttle grip, (50% throttle) and the spring just gave out and it was useless. I tested it and it would randomly start up and be 'stuck' on. I thought I could just use my controller on/off plug as an on/off for full throttle, but it didn't work and I didn't want to start taking the wires apart on the road. So I pedaled 4 miles mostly uphill and headwind home at 7-10mph. :oops:
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ohzee   1 MW

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by ohzee » Jan 28 2012 6:41pm

I have wondered the same myself. Even the 3/4 turn one's are just plastic POS.

I wouldn't mind investing a bit more into something made well.

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by dogman dan » Jan 28 2012 6:50pm

Guess I'm just lucky. I've consistently broken the tab off of thumb throttles, but never yet had one fail internaly.

Some of the riding I do isn't exactly on smooth pavement either, or if on paved I'd be laying er down on the track. No way I'v e been baybing throttles. Some of the ones I have currently in use are 4 years old.

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by veloman » Jan 28 2012 7:18pm

I took it apart and see that the magnet part broke off the grip. I glued it back on with Lech F-26, will see if it holds tomorrow.

I do tend to put some pressure at the point of full throttle, against where it stops moving, but nothing unreasonable. Since I use my speed switches all the time, I find it's easier to just hold it full throttle then micro-managing it. Overall, I don't care that much for a full twist, it makes it very difficult to apply the pressure you want when standing.
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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by GCinDC » Jan 28 2012 7:19pm

Image
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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by ohzee » Jan 28 2012 7:22pm

nice thanks GC

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remf   10 kW

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by remf » Jan 28 2012 7:24pm

Yeah Magura throttles are the best I've used, by far the most solidly built & durable except maybe for this:

http://www.jozztek.com/shop/throttles/4 ... ottle.html

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by GCinDC » Jan 28 2012 7:29pm

ps/fyi: magura's not a hall effect, so needs resistors inline, ancient quote that's i've still got bookmarked:
methods wrote:I just tuned in my Magura Throttle...

The general idea is that the Infineon only has a throttle window where it will work:

Dead zone 0V - 1.3V
Active zone 1.3V - 3.2V
100% throttle zone 3.2V - 3.8V
Upper Dead Zone 3.8V - 5V

This is tuned to the typical hall sensor throttle.

The throttle MUST be below 1.3V for the controller to initialize
The throttle MUST stay below 3.8V else you will get throttle cut-out at WOT

So... The idea is to use series resistances before and after the throttle to tune in the maximum resolution
There is no point in having a region of your throttle that moves with no reaction out at the wheel....

Anyhow, ends up that if you put a 1K resistor in line with the +5V and a 3K resistor inline with GND it is near perfect.
You will see:

~1.15V at the lowest setting
~3.65V at the highest setting
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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by Kingfish » Jan 28 2012 8:22pm

The only thing I don't like about the Magura is the width of the controller part; little phatty there, and if your steering bar is packed, this throttle will take up more space. Don't get me wrong: I have one or two that I use for backup.

Once upon a time I pretty sure johnrobholmes said he was working with the manufacturer to come up with a rugged redesigned controller for ebikes. Though I have yet to seen the fruit of this effort.

~KF
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veloman   1 GW

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by veloman » Jan 29 2012 2:30pm

The glue has held, it is fixed for now. I don't trust it though, so I will be carrying a spare throttle with me at all times.


Update: it lasted 2 miles then broke again. As I hopped off the bike it started to go running down the street in a huge wheelie, my left hand on the bar and grabbed the frame at the last second with my right hand, held the wheel off the ground and unplugged the controller switch.
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veloman   1 GW

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by veloman » Jan 30 2012 2:30pm

GCinDC wrote:ps/fyi: magura's not a hall effect, so needs resistors inline, ancient quote that's i've still got bookmarked:
methods wrote:I just tuned in my Magura Throttle...

The general idea is that the Infineon only has a throttle window where it will work:

Dead zone 0V - 1.3V
Active zone 1.3V - 3.2V
100% throttle zone 3.2V - 3.8V
Upper Dead Zone 3.8V - 5V

This is tuned to the typical hall sensor throttle.

The throttle MUST be below 1.3V for the controller to initialize
The throttle MUST stay below 3.8V else you will get throttle cut-out at WOT

So... The idea is to use series resistances before and after the throttle to tune in the maximum resolution
There is no point in having a region of your throttle that moves with no reaction out at the wheel....

Anyhow, ends up that if you put a 1K resistor in line with the +5V and a 3K resistor inline with GND it is near perfect.
You will see:

~1.15V at the lowest setting
~3.65V at the highest setting

This is interesting reading. I am using my old thumb throttle, another cheap Chinese thing. If I give it part throttle it will go, then it will cut out. There is very little speed adjustment zone, it's all near the WOT end, so I just hold it there and can't regulated power very well. It is a hall throttle, it just don't seem to work well with my Infineon, it worked okay with the cheap 14amp controller I was using last year.
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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 30 2012 3:12pm

I was working with magura on a redesign to make it more svelt. Of course I'm working with Magura USA and they are working with Germany, so it is really hard to get anything done.

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by auraslip » Jan 30 2012 3:44pm

I installed a pot on my magura throttle to work out the dead zones and twitchyness, but eventually just learned to live with it out of lazyness. JRH you'd be a hero if you got magura to make a decent hall ebike throttle!
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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by BATFINK » Jan 31 2012 7:10am

I just broke a throttle and was tempted by a more quality item but I would lose my cruise control and power switches. U can't beat cruise control especially if you like to do a bit of pedaling. Just set a speed that you can still pedal and contribute and you get much more range.

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BATFINK   10 kW

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by BATFINK » Jan 31 2012 7:11am

Decent but still plastic http://www.zannx.com/

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by GCinDC » Jan 31 2012 7:34am

water resistance is another factor if you ride in the rain, as i do. no probs yet w/ magura, knock, knock. i did have probs w/ cheapo hall effect throttle that came w/ a GM kit...

i'd really like a good single finger trigger throttle...
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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by cell_man » Feb 01 2012 12:31pm

I'd say it's a bit harsh to call a throttle that cost the end user somewhere in the region of 6 or 7USD, low quality because it broke when pulled hard by a user that likes to pedal and pedal hard. I always supply ebrakes in my kits and strongly recommend they are implemented due to the fact there is a cruise function and an out of control Mac motor can be kind of unsettling....

I've got some half grip throttles with the same 3 speed and cruise functions available as no cost options. I hope these will be better suited to users that put a lot of pressure on the bars and hopefully less prone to unintended takeoffs by users that accidentally twist throttles on powered up bikes (up until now that has been the only cause for damaged throttles). Whilst lots of users on here might think a 50USD throttle is fine, I don't think most of my customers would appreciate an increase of 40USD for a nice throttle when the vast majority have no problems and are happy with both function and performance of the present unit, at the present price point.

Are there better throttles available, for sure. Are their better throttles available to the end user at a similar price point, I don't think so and I don't think a throttle with 3 speed switch and cruise button at a slightly higher price is gonna be any better either. If lots or even a reasonable proportion of my customers demand higher grade throttles I'll happily see what I can find, but up until now, all I've heard is a couple of complaints of accidental take offs which resulted in damage to a throttle and now Rich's complain that it broke during use. To me accidental take off is not a quality issue, it is a system issue or user issue, but I have taken onboard that there has been the occasional problem and will try to address as best I can. The half grip throttle by itself should go some way to addressing all of these problems, some other things I'm looking into now will further address possible issues.

The occasional complaint that I have heard are valid, so not trying to fob anyone off and I do appreciate hearing these things. When trying to put together a kit, it is difficult to cover every eventuality when you have to make the best of what you can actually source and at a reasonable price without having to do everything yourself.

Cheers
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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by ohzee » Feb 01 2012 12:53pm

I like reading what you have to say cell_man so thanks for taking the time with your posts this week.

it's always insightful

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by SoSauty » Feb 01 2012 1:11pm

I've never had any problems in 15,000mi riding using a half dozen inexpensive throttles. I've made 99cent cruise controls, removed the spring, ect. . While I had no problems with, and enjoyed, the springless throttle on a small cute motor, it's not recommended.

Lately I've considered seeing my congress woman about the bothersome e-brake controller throttle cutoffs required on manufactured e-bikes. It would be so much simple to form little co-ops at church, college, and city levels to teach diy e-bike assembly without the extra electronic complexity. Interesting to see a different view point advocating such.

A solid half throttle with 3speed setting sounds like just the ticket. I'll be checking your website cell man :wink:
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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by E-racer » Feb 01 2012 1:55pm

You can always make a throttle. There's not much to them. I intend on doing this for my current build.
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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by Wurly » Feb 01 2012 3:23pm

GCinDC wrote:
i'd really like a good single finger trigger throttle...
http://www.atlanticjetsport.com/index.p ... tail&p=500
Don't look at the price :shock:
But i like the neat design. The pivot on the other side of the handle bars, lever pulls a 5Kpot with a cable.

Mmmmm idea :idea:

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veloman   1 GW

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by veloman » Feb 01 2012 6:56pm

On the plus side, this throttle that broke on me was working GREAT, very smooth action, and easy to micro-manage the power/speed, consistent speed change with change in throttle position.

In fairness, such a plastic full twist is likely not the best option for someone who pulls on the bars. $7 is an excellent value, especially considering the cruise and speed switch that it comes with.


I am looking into a half twist, but am concerned because I want it to have a smooth action. I have another thumb throttle that I hate using because it's so hard to micro-manage the position with. Here's the pic of this one: you can see I added some grease to help it slide better.
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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by cell_man » Feb 01 2012 10:58pm

Hi Rich,

the half grip is just the same as the full grip and has the same action. With the half grip it should be no problem to avoid putting pressure on the throttle and grip the bars directly. With the cruise enabled you don't need to touch the throttle after all. Some little hall sensors to act as ebrake cutouts are on my list of to do things. Whilst I don't think ebrakes are a must with controllers without cruise, I think they are essential with cruise and they are absolutely no harm to have, just in case anything goes wrong.

We'll try to get you some of these throttles ASAP and I'm very interested to hear how you get on with them.

Thanks
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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by quuxman » Apr 27 2014 5:12pm

I had a cheap plastic Zannx half size twist throttle for the last 1.5 years. It has a three level power toggle which is really nice, and a really funky cruise control button that is hard enough to engage that I basically never use it. It was also rather twitchy with my 48v 10T Mac motor. Otherwise it was passable (though the button box is excessively large) until today.

I let someone try out the bike, and when they were walking it they engaged the throttle, causing it to buck up (honestly I've done the same thing once or twice), but this time they grabbed the throttle hard enough that it broke past the mechanical stop, leaving it very dangerously stuck on full power. Thankfully I have brake cut offs.

I kind of want to try a thumb lever throttle, but I don't think any of them out there have the variable power switch, and ALL throttles seem to be made out of cheap plastic, and all the thumb levers look like they could easily snap off.

I'm at a loss on what to get for a replacement.

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Re: Quality throttle?

Post by amberwolf » Apr 27 2014 5:25pm

You could use a thumblever gear shifter (there are all-metal ones from old ten speed bikes, for instance, if you like) operating one of g-why's cable-operated throttle boxes, presently listed in the For Sale New section.

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