Here is a letter I had to send out tonight. (long) (UPDATE!)

sangesf

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Dear Chief Of Police

This is the first time, I've ever had the desire or need to write correspondence to a police department over an interaction with an officer.*
**Let me start off by saying, that I waited a day before sending this correspondence as I was incredibly upset (yesterday) and did not want to taint this complaint with too much emotion..

My main form of transportation is an electric bicycle. *It is a Schwinn Stingray OCC Chopper Electric Bicycle. (Stock photo (1) and a photo of my specific bicycle (2) enclosed at the end of this email, for your reference). It has pedals to allow me to pedal/propel the bicycle, as well as, an electric helper motor, which is not capable of propelling my bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.*

On Saturday evening approximately 6:15pm, I was traveling northbound on my electric bicycle (either in the bicycle lane or as far right as *practicable, on the road {when there sometimes isn't a bike lane}), when I was pulled over by Officer
.*
** At the very start of the "conversation", the officer was extremely confrontational. I put conversation in quotes, as it was not a conversation, per se, but the officer telling me that I was not allowed to explain myself and that I was wrong about everything I tried to explain to him*
*The first thing he told me was that I was riding a "motor vehicle". I had tried to explain to Ofc. that my vehicle was an electric bicycle, but he kept interrupting me and not allowing me to explain the legality of my electric bicycle.*

He kept (very rudely) asking if my bicycle had a motor on it. I kept answering, "Yes, it has an Electric motor, on it".*

I kept trying to explain to him that an electric bicycle, according to the Florida State statutes, is exempt from the "motor" vehicle laws as it is still considered an ordinary bicycle.*

He then continues (again) to tell me,
"If it has a motor on it, of any kind, it is considered a "motor" vehicle."*
I even tried to state to him the Florida State staute information.. I said, "It's covered under Statute 316.003 [2] and recited it for the officer. (paraphrased really, as I didn't know it Verbatim)..

I told Ofc., that I would like him to look up the statute that I just tried to explain to him, and he told me, "I don't have to look it up because, I KNOW if a bicycle has ANY kind of motor on it, it is considered a "motor" vehicle."

** During this whole "conversation", Ofc. kept saying, "'We' were not going to 'have this argument'".. I tried to explain to him that this was NOT an "argument", nor was I going to "argue" about it. I was just TRYING to explain the facts about "electric bicycle laws" here in Florida and how it pertains to my bicycle.*

**He then tells me to get off my bicycle (for what reason I don't know) and stand in front of his police car.*
**He then says to me, "IF I were to pat you down, would I find any weapons or drugs?" (for what reason would he need to pat me down? - He didn't, but it seemed odd to me, that he had to make that kind of statement, specifically with the emphasis on "IF")*
I stated, "No, I don't have any drugs or weapons". *He then (again) asked me if I had anything on me, that HE would consider a "weapon".*
I told him, "No". He then asks me if I have a pen on me and I answered, "yes". He then tells me that HE considers a pen, a "weapon"! (Huh?!?)

Ofc. takes my Florida ID and does his check, finds nothing wrong and then he tells me, he doesn't want me to ride my bicycle in towh, anymore, as it would require registration and a valid Driver's license.*

**As he hands me back my ID, he says, "I'm going to pull over that guy over there {he points somewhere} on his motorized wheelchair (Jokingly, I supposed) and I won't watch you pull away."*
I kind of figured he was joking with me, so I said, "You don't mind if I ride my bicycle home?".*
Ofc. (again, with complete rudeness and the unwarranted sternness as he continued with throughout this entire traffic stop) says, "I JUST told you, I wasn't going to watch you pull away" (Supposedly) meaning that he was "doing me a favor" and not writing me any tickets or summons and "letting me go"..

** It was an extremely uncomfortable situation, as there was absolutely no need for the completely unprofessional and confrontational manner that Ofc. displayed throughout this entire encounter with me. *(I even tried to "lighten up" his mood, by being extremely polite.)
**After the encounter, I realized, that I had not gotten the officer's name, at that time. *

**Later that evening, (while pedaling *(northbound again) back home on my bicycle, on the sidewalk, as to not exacerbate any situation while still traveling within town) I saw Ofc. on another stop (he had someone else pulled over on the same (east) side of the sidewalk as me).*
I stopped and very politely said, "I'm really sorry to bother you, but do you have a business card?" (as I wanted his information for this complaint..(Not that I told him that))
He pulled one out and very glibly said, "Here ya go! You have 'fun' with that!"
**In my opinion, Apparently Ofc. believes that being completely unprofessional and rude is acceptible behavior for a Police Officer.

I have enclosed a link and a copy of the State Statute 316.003[2] (for your reference) below.*

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/316.003

*****(2) BICYCLE.—Every vehicle propelled solely by human power, and every motorized bicycle propelled by a combination of human power and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on level ground upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels, and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels....****

As well as, a copy of an official FLDMV/HSMV (3) document (sent to me) stating that an electric bicycle is exempt from registration and drivers licensing requirements. *(Reference PDF is at end of this correspondence)


I have also included a copy of the basic bicycle laws (from the Florida State Safety office, written by Lora Hollingsworth, P.E., Chief Safety Officer)

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/safety/pe...bikeLaws1.shtm

** I would like to formally request that you please inform all of the officers, under your command, of the current statute regarding electric bicycles and how electric bicycles are NOT considered "motor" vehicles, nor any of the requirements that go along with that.*

** At your earliest convenience, please return receipt of this correspondence with your recommendations and/or comments by either email and/or phone as I would like to be able to ride my bicycle through Town without the worry that I will be pulled over again and/or harassed.*

I look forward to your response.*

Sincerely,*
Sangesf


Reference Materials...

1.) Link to the Schwinn Bicycle website...

http://web.archive.org/web/200606141...-electric.html

B.) Stock photo of The Schwinn Stingray OCC electric bicycle...


(Note: the "engine" in the middle is actually a plastic battery compartment, which I do not have on my bicycle as shown in the actual photo of my bicycle..)

2.) Here is a picture of my bicycle (in it's current condition)



(Note: For my own safety at night and compliance with state statutes, not only do I have a bright White 55w Halogen front light and a rear 35w Red light, but I also have installed (front and rear) amber colored blinkers (for use when a hand signal might not be seen at night), a brake light (that comes on when I hit the brakes), a car horn, a 12v power receptacle and various other items. The box in the back of the bicycle holds, among other items, battery for the motor, 12v tire pump, 12v battery for my accessories, battery charger, and rear tail/brake light and rear directionals).*

3.) Official correspondence from the DMV sent to me / dated June, 2011.*


What do you guys think the response will be?
(And no, the officer wasn't having a "bad day" as I talked with a few people that work in that town and says he's a real jerk.)
 
Sounds like a harassment case to me.. lawyer up if you can.

I've seen pics of your bike and it is definitely not stealth looking. It is usually someone getting harassed for riding something that looks like a scooter, so this guy made the extra effort to get on your ass, for what reason..

Funny because mopeds are legal and th speed limit for them is higher. How many gas bike guys get harassed?
 
The area under a cop-cars door handle has all sorts of abilities to hold interesting things.
 
StudEbiker said:
Sounds like the guy was a real prick. I've never had to deal with anything like that, but I now carry a very official looking card with all relevant bicycle laws in my pack with me at all times.

You should print some up and sell them on the forums. Good ammo in an argument, could get you released quicker..
 
neptronix said:
Sounds like a harassment case to me.. lawyer up if you can.

I've seen pics of your bike and it is definitely not stealth looking. It is usually someone getting harassed for riding something that looks like a scooter, so this guy made the extra effort to get on your ass, for what reason..

Funny because mopeds are legal and th speed limit for them is higher. How many gas bike guys get harassed?

Can't really call it "harassment" as this is the first time I was ever pulled over and treated like this...
(I was pulled over 2 years ago in the same town (different officer), but the bike (at that time) had a plastic "V-Twin engine" on it, that looked like a gas engine, which caused "confusion" for the officer, but once he realized it was just a plastic cover for the batteries, he realized it was just an electric bike and was ok with it and was very polite and let me go without even batting an eye or asking for my ID or anything like that).

No, it's not "stealth looking", nor does it need to be. It's a completely legal e-bike (In Florida) and does not require registration or a valid driver's license.

A moped does need registration and a valid Driver's license, to ride it on the streets of Florida.
(As it has a gasoline engine on it).
 
neptronix said:
StudEbiker said:
Sounds like the guy was a real prick. I've never had to deal with anything like that, but I now carry a very official looking card with all relevant bicycle laws in my pack with me at all times.

You should print some up and sell them on the forums. Good ammo in an argument, could get you released quicker..

It is Oregon specific. I posted a link awhile back where to get the cards sent to people in Oregon for free.

Edit: Here it is: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32981&p=479020&hilit=oregon+bike+laws#p479020
 
The other problem I had, was that my son had my iPhone..
I have all the State Statute web links and my received DMV documents stored on it, and if I had it on me, I could have TRIED to show the officer, the relevant information, but I doubt he would have looked at it anyways..
 
My thoughts is that you'll be lucky to get a pro-forma response and the chief of police will never see your letter, due it its length, narrative format and an unclear purpose until the end.

Your letter could have been boiled down to the following points and been far more effective:

* You had an unprofessional and unpleasant encounter with a member of his staff (which if you want you can name)
* There was a significant deficiency in his knowledge of the law (enclose but don't quote)
* Respectfully request that all members in his precinct be educated in the next staff memo

Just my thought. Maybe the Florida police have a good community relations department, and a summary of your letter might get to the police chiefs desk, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
I used to get infuriated by the encounters I have had with police and their lack luster attitude. After the want to be rebellious wore off I realized there attitude may be justified. They have probably the worst job ever. I think I would probably have that attitude as well if I was stuck in that lifestyle.
 
Sunder said:
My thoughts is that you'll be lucky to get a pro-forma response and the chief of police will never see your letter, due it its length, narrative format and an unclear purpose until the end.

Your letter could have been boiled down to the following points and been far more effective:

* You had an unprofessional and unpleasant encounter with a member of his staff (which if you want you can name)
* There was a significant deficiency in his knowledge of the law (enclose but don't quote)
* Respectfully request that all members in his precinct be educated in the next staff memo

Just my thought. Maybe the Florida police have a good community relations department, and a summary of your letter might get to the police chiefs desk, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


I sent the letter directly to the chief of police, named the officer (didn't include it here), I also sent a copy with a formal "complaint form" (downloaded from the towns website) sent it to the Police "civil interaction division" and CC'd the Mayor, the town manager, a bicycle organization I won't name, and lead counsel of the DMV... I'm sure my email inbox will be quite full and phone will be ringing quite a bit tomorrow...

IF my complaint falls on deaf ears, I'll send a copy to the local newspaper, the county newspaper, the State AGs office and anywhere else I need to...
I take the downright misconduct / bullyish attitude by an offer of the law as one of the most incredibly atrocious abuse of power there is.

It was actually funny, because he asked me some questions, and figured I wouldn't know the answers but when I did and he realized he couldn't "trip me up" and realized that I was correct in my reading / knowledge of the law, I think that upset him even more.

He obviously knew I was correct and perfectly legal, or you know for a fact, he would of ticketed me, hauled my bike away or even worse.
Sometimes people think that being aggressive and trying to force their will on others will work on everyone.. WRONG!

The one thing that really got my goat was when he handed me the card and said, "Here, go have fun with that!", like he thought he was untouchable and/or I wouldn't really do anything about his obvious lack of professionalism. (Again) WRONG!
 
E-racer said:
I used to get infuriated by the encounters I have had with police and their lack luster attitude. After the want to be rebellious wore off I realized there attitude may be justified. They have probably the worst job ever. I think I would probably have that attitude as well if I was stuck in that lifestyle.

There's a difference between having a crappy attitude and being a complete ass and so rude to the point of ridiculousness. He had no attitude other than, what he says it right, just because he's a cop and because of that what he says it's right and forget what the law actually is... Completely arrogant and a quick way to get reprimanded or fired.
Police are (supposed to be) held to higher standards than us "civilians", they take an oath to serve and protect us, not to harass and berate us. Huge difference.

I did nothing to illicit the confrontational and glib attitude of the officer in question. I was extremely friendly and completely legal and fully within my right to ride on the road. Just because he doesn't personally like it, for whatever reason, means nothing.
 
sangesf said:
The other problem I had, was that my son had my iPhone..
I have all the State Statute web links and my received DMV documents stored on it, and if I had it on me, I could have TRIED to show the officer, the relevant information, but I doubt he would have looked at it anyways..
He probably would have considered it a weapon :wink:

It is a well known fact that people riding a chopper are gang criminals who carry weapons and dope. :D
 
MadRhino said:
He probably would have considered it a weapon :wink:

It is a well known fact that people riding a chopper are gang criminals who carry weapons and dope. :D

In the past I quite regularly rode with one of my SIG 510's (a semi-automatic 7.5 mm assault rifle, 24 round mag)
on my back on the scooter to the shooting range.

And then they call the USA the land of the free :D
 
Good story. Let this be a lesson to all ebikes builders out there to make your bikes as stealth as possible to avoid hassle from the polices.
 
A lot of the "attitude" comes from cops that transfer up from Miami area.

I had a couple run-ins with that same attitude, when we had 2 car break-ins, in Sebastian. Cops were so arrogant, I just made the comment that my bullets knew no difference between criminals and arrogant cops.

Don't come back on my property without my permission. One got the hint, the other started puffing up. I told him, just listen to what I said, and went into the house.

A couple years later, when my wife passed away at night, I called 911 for the Medical team and coroner. had 7 cops inside my house, guarding a "possible" crime scene. I told them, "if you want a crime scene, keep harrassing me". I asked how many drug deals were taking place, just 3 blocks from my house, as we were being "guarded"?? Got no response. One asked me how I knew my wife was dead. Told him, I killed my share in 'Nam. I KNEW dead. :roll: :roll:

Most are a bunch of Neanderthal pricks, carrying guns. Down here, they are mostly pathetic. :roll:
 
I totally disagree that you should have to build stealth, if your bike is actually legal.

It's a fine line though, between standing up for your rights, and putting a big fat target on your back. Back at the station, after your complaint, the entire force will be hearing only his version. Hopefully they already know he's as ass, and ignore him.

Just don't become the town kook they love to tease.

Carrying a print out of the actual florida law could be helpful next time this ass pulls you over.
 
liveforphysics said:
The area under a cop-cars door handle has all sorts of abilities to hold interesting things.

Stinky things?
 
Welcome to the police state !

Consider yourself fortunate that you weren't tazzered and arrested for assault.That's what happens now under the new world corporate order.

Sad that the police man who we grew up with that was there to serve and protect-is now out to harass and assault.

They-not all-are disgusting when it comes to having respect for the law they are supposed to uphold and obey.

They-all of them-lost my respect when they treated us like sh!t during the last G20.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2010-2011/youshouldhavestayedathome/

I never used to have any need or desire to have a weapon for protection...

now I have a few...

to protect me from the pigs.

They decided to become who they are and lose the respect and confidence of the public.

Its us against them now-long live the Republic with the right to bear arms and a video camera!

too bad you didn't have a video of the altercation,or at least a sound recording.
 
May I ask what area of Florida this occurred in, and was it in an urban area or a rural town?
Tampa area?
Orlando area?
Miami area?
Gainesville area?
Tallahassee area?

There is a big difference in the demeanor of cops in the different areas. The further north you go in Florida, the more good-natured they generally are.

My only encounter with the sheriff's patrol in my rural area has been one of admiration and inquisitiveness.
 
I frock w/ 'em by never cleaning my truck. Sure...search the vehicle, I don't care if you wanna dig through my garbage...dumbasses. :lol:
 
Interesting experience. Thanks for sharing.

I am interested to see if you hear anything back. So far for the most part cops in Columbus have
left me alone. Good ideas on having the bike laws handy that's something I am going to start keeping
in my bike bag.
 
Floont said:
May I ask what area of Florida this occurred in, and was it in an urban area or a rural town?
Tampa area?
Orlando area?
Miami area?
Gainesville area?
Tallahassee area?

There is a big difference in the demeanor of cops in the different areas. The further north you go in Florida, the more good-natured they generally are.

My only encounter with the sheriff's patrol in my rural area has been one of admiration and inquisitiveness.

This was from a town police officer..
I've never had an issue with any of the SHERRIF's Office/officers aka either Martin, Miami/Dade or Palm Beach counties... NEVER.

This one, was only the second time that I was dealing with a municipality officer who was a complete jerk.
(The first time, I wasn't even in (nor had been in) the town that the local cop was from.. I was like... "Don't harass me and leave me alone, I'm not even in your jurisdiction! Sheesh!" and I just rode off.... I was DYING for him to try to pull me over, when I wasn't even in jurisdiction!)

Every other time I've ever dealt with law enforcement, either local or county, I've never had an issue.

I would have even let it go, if when I asked for his business card, he didn't act like he was untouchable...
Some people have to learn that you can only push people so far, until they push back..

I'm almost certain, he was trying to get me to become infuriated/aggressive during the stop, and when he realized that wasn't going to happen he had no choice but to let me go.

I've heard too many times of people actually getting arrested for "resisting arrest without violence", and I wasn't going to go there..

Also, I believe in Florida, although you can VIDEO tape... an AUDIO recording (even in public) is/can be considered "wire tapping" (a felony), believe it or not.
 
dogman said:
I totally disagree that you should have to build stealth, if your bike is actually legal.

It's a fine line though, between standing up for your rights, and putting a big fat target on your back. Back at the station, after your complaint, the entire force will be hearing only his version. Hopefully they already know he's as ass, and ignore him.

Just don't become the town kook they love to tease.

Carrying a print out of the actual florida law could be helpful next time this ass pulls you over.

I usually do (on my iPhone), but I didn't have it on me at that moment.

+1 on not needing stealth when you're FULLY LEGAL!

I'm usually not in that town, nor do I usually go through it, but I do, from time to time, maybe once every month or so.
Even IF there was a "target on my back", that's perfect grounds for a civil suit. I'm not easily pushed around... Actually, I AM easily pushed around, UNTIL you start stepping on my civil/legal rights, THEN I'm a pit bull with a damn good lawyer.

Depending on what transpires in the next day or two (I have 45 days to "upgrade" my complaint to an actual legal/civil matter) I may just get an attorney.
 
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