Page 1 of 1

TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 12:08pm
by Papa Pro
Yep, only it’s not Called TidalForce in the USA anymore. It’s called the E+.

http://www.electricmotionsystems.com

Prices start from 3.5k and 4.1k for the 1000w version. Loads of improvements and don’t forget to check out the videos. Completely redesigned. I like the new dash :)

Great so see TidalForce come back home.

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 2:27pm
by Miles
There are a lot of tide jokes one could make, but I'll resist the temptation :)

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 3:27pm
by EMF
Ouch! Why is this thing so expensive?

The motor, battery pack, and display/controller are completely new, with state-of-the-art technology and amazing performance.

I woulldn't call a battery pack consisting of 36 volt 9ah NiMH...."state of the art"

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 4:19pm
by Lock
Any EV product today is deficient if it doesn't have a pack you can swap in under a minute. Remove for charging etc.
tks

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 5:18pm
by RLT
I'd like to know more about the controller.
That is the only thing that might be approaching 'state of the art'.

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 5:47pm
by Papa Pro
Hi all,

The system is very state of the art!

It has a kind of immobiliser built into the system. Once you take off the dash (It fits into your pocket) the motor will go into HIGH RESSISTENCE making it very hard for someone to cycle off. It has a volt meter, speedo and 19 modes of power assist all built into the sexy new dash. It has Cruse Control, REGEN, and is weather proof. The software has been updated from the previous Tidalforce bikes as has the motor, controller, dash & front hub has all been redesigned. Two years hard work has finally brought the world’s best e-bike back to the US market. It’s a good day people. One we all should be proud of.

But I have not tried this model yet. If it’s anything like my older TF, then it’s a winner. And I have every confidence with Rakesh (the designer and EX WCL head designer and CEO of EMS) that he has done another great job.

There is NOTHING like this on offer anywhere??? (bar Optibike) And the front hub battery is simply an innovation I could not do without. Most agree who have tried the TF first hand that this bike is special. You can also add a second stock B pack that is hot swappable. Sure I would like to see a lithium pack but there is nothing Matra are happy with. NiMH just ensures reliability. It’s a proven chemistry.

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 6:05pm
by EMF
Ok I'll accept that. It does sound very nice! The website is well done also. I'm checking out the videos now.

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 6:12pm
by Papa Pro
[quote="EMF"]Ouch! Why is this thing so expensive?

quote]

How much did/does your A123 pack cost?

:)

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 6:16pm
by Lock
Papa Pro wrote:...Cruse Control, REGEN, and is weather proof.

I didn't see Regen mentioned on the E+ site... It's important <even if a tiny contrib. against overall energy use.>
Weather proof is good too <smile>
Papa Pro wrote:...second stock B pack that is hot swappable.

Where is the second pack mounted? Yer back? Pannier? How many Ah versus the primary pack? Where/how is 2nd pack coupled into system - where're the wires and plugs?
Just curious tks
locK

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 6:20pm
by EMF
I paid about 800 dollars for 80 cells. But they are going to last more than 500 cycles probably 1500 to 2000. Plus, they are ideal for high voltage application, since I run at 66 volts and I still have a solid 8 amp hours.

I don't blame the engineers for going without the LifePO4- especially in a production situation. These cells are hard to come by.

@Lock- they do talk about regeneration, at least on the video from the President of the company. Listening "between the lines", it may be adjustable too as they say there are 19 riding modes. This bike seems quite sophisticated, I would love to see one.

GIVE ONE TO JAMIE ON THE MYTHBUSTERS TO SHOW! :P

Edit: cost of batteries

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 6:28pm
by Papa Pro
It has many modes of REGEN

The B pack goes on the rear rack I think? Just like the older TF bikes. The great thing is you have a spare rear power connector at the rear of the bike which is stock parallel set. I don’t know about these bikes, but my TF has a triple Saft Parallel setup giving me around one volt sag during 30amp loads. We also pull 60amp peak. I am using two Saft VHD’s which are rated for 50 amps each. Each module can handle the TFX on it’s own. The B packs for the E+ will be the same specs and cost $650 each. Not sure the AH yet but will find out. This is exclusive info.

I will try and talk to Rakesh tomorrow and get some more feedback.

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 6:40pm
by Lock
Everything I have read suggests that *all* weight carried (batteries and motors) are best employed 100% of the time and not just carried along as "dead weight" for some of the ride...
tks
loCk

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 6:49pm
by Papa Pro
Lock wrote:Everything I have read suggests that *all* weight carried (batteries and motors) are best employed 100% of the time and not just carried along as "dead weight" for some of the ride...
tks
loCk
Hi Lock

I agree. That’s why I run all my packs in Parallel. MY TF is stock setup for this. I simply plug any power source into my B power connector :D

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 6:53pm
by Papa Pro
EMF wrote:I paid about 800 dollars for 80 cells. But they are going to last more than 500 cycles probably 1500 to 2000. Plus, they are ideal for high voltage application, since I run at 66 volts and I still have a solid 8 amp hours.
66v sounds fun!

http://www.evbones.com just modified a TFX motor to 48V. It sounded scary! I think 44mph. Somthing like that.

The cycle life is well worth the price you paid for your pack! You got a good bargain my friend.

Good stuff!

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 11:29pm
by Nimbuzz
Richard, I don't think EMF bought a pack but rather cells that he made into a pack. If so EMF, do you use a bms?

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 20 2008 11:40pm
by Nimbuzz
I will back up Richard's claims that the TF system has built in regen and is a sophistcated, robust bike. A thousand or so of the originals were purchased by the US military for use in Afganistan and had to pass rigorous tests for ruggedness and reliability. On the Tidalforce/Google forum that are many happy owners with a few glitches now and then. The battery in hub gives it a great low center of gravity and allows normal use of the sidestand. At 36v my Tidalforce and C-lyte 5304 are fairly similar in power and speed. One limitation is that the TF is very computerized and is hard to hack to higher voltages or self-repair electronicly. But the 1000 Watt model can go 30mph out of the box. This is what I have and am comparing here.

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 21 2008 7:24am
by EMF
Nimbuzz wrote:Richard, I don't think EMF bought a pack but rather cells that he made into a pack. If so EMF, do you use a bms?
That is correct, I made my pack up from Dewalts. No I do not have a BMS and I also do not think it is that necessary. I have a Cycle Analyst that I can keep an eye on my pack voltage/watthours and also have set a low voltage cutoff. I can use an RC style balancer - if needed periodically.

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 23 2008 7:54am
by shinyballs
How efficient is there hub motor compared to a bmc geared motor? And no rear suspension, disk brakes... :?: :roll:

Re: TidalForce - Back for good

Posted: Apr 23 2008 3:25pm
by kbarrett
Geared is ( generally ) more efficient than ungeared hall effect ... but they make more noise, and have gears to wear out.

Hall effect motors, like a c'lyte, are more robust ... something to consider if you want to overvolt.