Thinking of getting an e-bike and need help

G

gee

100 µW
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
8
Location
Seattle, WA USA
Hello,

this is my first post here and I have to admit, I do not know much about bicycles... haven't extensively ridden one in more than 10 years and even then...

I have found your board searching for information and it is packed with it!

Lately I am getting tired of taking the bus back and forth to work everyday (about 40 minutes of bus with good traffic plus time to walk to and from the stations), and I really don't feel like driving to work so I was thinking of biking instead.

Since where I live there are many hills, and last time I tried biking around here I gave up because of them, I was thinking of getting an electric bike to help me with the hills.
It would also help me with the distance and the speed, as I have about 13 miles between work and home, and would like to not spend hours on the road...

Do you think that is feasible? Especially knowing that I go to the gym to lift weight pretty much half an hour after reaching destination in the morning on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday.
I am afraid of this being too much... Though when I started lifting years ago, I was also biking everywhere and never felt better in my life (but I was younger and a student...)

If it is all good, I have been looking at the ezip trailz bike, but 15mph is not great.
I know you have some mods to get it faster, but if so, wouldn't it be better to just get a better bike?
I toured a shop around here, starters were around $850+, "nice" ones more like $1400+.
I don't really have a budget, but I am not looking forward to invest the price of a car either...

I guess I am quite lost....
If that is useful, I am 28, 6'1 and in good shape, around 180lbs.

Thanks!
 
Now if we just knew what country you were in. Go to the User Control Panel above. Select profile and fill in your location.
 
having ridden an ezip in Seattle, I can say it would likely not support the range you seek to travel.
I'm guessing you would need closer to a 25-30Ah battery to handle all the hill climbing you indicate you need to do (assuming you don't recharge at work)
oh, and imo 15mph on a bike is actually pretty fast, considering you're traveling in a crowded metro area and haven't been riding bikes for a decade. Cars have this habit of suddenly appearing out of nowhere if you bike too fast.
(says the guy who is currently experiencing close encounters with vehicles at least once per day in a *very* uncrowded local when riding @ 20mph)
 
A typical electric bike hubmotor kit, combined with a 36v 20 ah, or 48v 15 ah battery will suit your needs well. You'll have to be able to charge at work.

This will allow you to travel at up to 25-30 mph depending on the kit you chose. However, if you limited travel speed to 18-20 mph, you'd be able to make it there and back on the same battery.

Spinning, or faux pedaling is actually great exercise for your heart as you get older. (wait till you hit 40 :roll: ) Just flapping the legs gets a bit of blood flowing, and before long you learn to arrive at work without being all sweaty, but still have put some stamina back in your legs and heart. Your distance, twice a day is perfect for it, about 45 min each way or so.

Your geographic location makes it a no brainer to go straight to Grin Cyclery. Though in Canada, it's close, and it's also the most reputable ebike kit retailer worldwide.

Without knowing much more about the needs, such as steep hills on the way, I'd say the 9 continent rear 2807 motor would suit you. If the hills are really steep, then get the 2808 motor kit. Run it at 48v, with a 15 ah battery from pingbattery.com.

Put it on a bike with a large enough frame triangle to fit the battery into the triangle space.
 
This is the motor kit I'd recommend, but it's currently out of stock.
http://www.yescomusa.com/product.php?productid=729
When in stock, you can find them on ebay for under $280 shipped.
Put it on a 26" bike with steel dropouts. Replace the small tire with a bigger one and put some rim tape on the rim or you will get flat tires quick.
Battery choice would depend on what you want. I only use rc lipo, but it's not for everyone. 12s lipo is perfect for the controller that comes with the kit, With an LVC of 42V you can't over discharge a 12s lipo pack. For a round trip of 26 miles, you'd want 20ah of 12s lipo if you keep your speed to 25mph. Could get by with less if you go a little slower and help pedaling. Top speed on 12s lipo will be about 28 mph. Another choice would be a lifepo4 pack. A 10ah 16s A123 pack would get you to work and you could charge there fairly easily. For 2C packs like Ping and others, you'd need 15ah minimum to have enough amps to not stress the pack much. Again, you could charge these at work easily. How much battery you need is really going to depend on how much you want to assist. At slower speeds and doing moderate pedaling, you can stretch the range considerably. Even double it.
 
I have a few bikes with different set ups on them.
You are welcome to stop by and try them out. Slow medium and faster.
Everyone likes faster, not sure why.
Near Greenlake
 
What you want to accomplish is very do-able. Bike commuting is awesome. I recommend installing a "kit" or the equivalent parts bought a la cart on your own bike. I prefer a rear wheel installation but a lot of people have front installations and are happy with that.

As far as a motor, unless you are going to continuously climb very large hills, you can get away with any of several mid-sized hub motors, either direct drive or geared. Direct drive is, generally, faster and will have less parts. Gear drives are generally lighter for similar hill-climbing ability have the ability to free-wheel, which is either a positive (you can pedal without the motor and no drag) or negative (no regen. braking), depending on how you look at it. I have two bikes, both of which are killer climbers in their own rights. One uses a 9C 2810 (you probably can't find one now) on 72v. The equivalent might be a 9C 2808 on 48v. The only significant difference will be the current required for a certain power level; the 2808 on 48V will require more amps, but will have the advantage of readily available LiFePO4 battery packs and chargers. LiPO is awesome, but a bit more involved in many cases because you have to install your own battery monitoring system (BMS) if you want to use one and I have not been able to find cheap 72v chargers (although you can order one from a couple of places, like BMS battery). The primary advantage of LiPO are its weight and the ability to draw large currents from a small pack. However, you are going to need a fairly good-sized battery for that ride so you needn't be too worried about getting enough current. I think you can get a pack that will do the whole distance if you aren't aggressive with the throttle. Or you can charge at each end. I prefer to get a bigger battery and not worry with charging at work, since it is not easy to do. If you have a place inside with an outlet where you can put the bike each day, that is also very feasible.

My other bike uses a StokeMonkey middrive on an Xtracycle conversion. I can go 30 miles on very hilly terrain with a 15 Ahr, 36V LiFePO4 pack with this one; I have a 14 mile, round trip commute and I can do it twice if I forget to charge one night. This bike is a hauling machine. You can't believe the amount of stuff you can carry with it. If you want to haul a week's worth of groceries for a family of four up a 20% grade, it will do it and not even sweat. However it was pretty expensive if you just want to take yourself back and forth. I don't recommend the StokeMonkey if you don't plan on using the hauling capability, although I ride mine nearly every day to work, even though I am just hauling my laptop and raingear 90% of the time.

So I'd recommend a mid-sized hub motor set up with probably a 48V, 20 Ahr LiFePO4 battery. You will probably be able to get 35A out of it in bursts and that should be plenty for cruising up even very substantial hills. So get a good controller. I got my high amp one from Lyen, here on Endless Sphere. It was overkill for my use but it never even gets warm. On a mid-sized motor, don't run that much power continuously or you will probably burn it up, but for short hills, it will be fine, I suspect. I run 20-25A at 72V in bursts on my 9C 2810 and it has never been taxed to the point where it gets more than warm. I have a good sized controller and I never use that much current for more than a minute or so, probably. A 20 Ahr, 48V is a pretty good sized battery and you might want to get two 10Ahr batteries and parallel them, so long as you do it correctly, because it might be easier to put two smaller batteries on the bike. Depends on the bike. I recommend using a frame bag of some sort to put the battery in the front triangle because it distributes the weight better. If you have a bike with a large front triangle, you can probably get a single battery.

So, yes, you can do it and I highly recommend it. Cruising along virtually noiselessly for about 5 cents a day rocks. Unless it is raining buckets and then it rocks a bit less.
 
ddk said:
having ridden an ezip in Seattle, I can say it would likely not support the range you seek to travel.
I'm guessing you would need closer to a 25-30Ah battery to handle all the hill climbing you indicate you need to do (assuming you don't recharge at work)
oh, and imo 15mph on a bike is actually pretty fast, considering you're traveling in a crowded metro area and haven't been riding bikes for a decade. Cars have this habit of suddenly appearing out of nowhere if you bike too fast.
(says the guy who is currently experiencing close encounters with vehicles at least once per day in a *very* uncrowded local when riding @ 20mph)
Click to expand...

Ah if you know the area, then I am looking to go from Belltown to downtown Bellevue and then back at night.
I can totally recharge the battery at work, that was the plan.
As for the speed you may be right, I actually have no clue since I never ever measured how fast I went, I would like to keep this around 30-40 minutes each way... especially in raining season :)

dogman said:
A typical electric bike hubmotor kit, combined with a 36v 20 ah, or 48v 15 ah battery will suit your needs well. You'll have to be able to charge at work.

This will allow you to travel at up to 25-30 mph depending on the kit you chose. However, if you limited travel speed to 18-20 mph, you'd be able to make it there and back on the same battery.

Spinning, or faux pedaling is actually great exercise for your heart as you get older. (wait till you hit 40 :roll: ) Just flapping the legs gets a bit of blood flowing, and before long you learn to arrive at work without being all sweaty, but still have put some stamina back in your legs and heart. Your distance, twice a day is perfect for it, about 45 min each way or so.

Your geographic location makes it a no brainer to go straight to Grin Cyclery. Though in Canada, it's close, and it's also the most reputable ebike kit retailer worldwide.

Without knowing much more about the needs, such as steep hills on the way, I'd say the 9 continent rear 2807 motor would suit you. If the hills are really steep, then get the 2808 motor kit. Run it at 48v, with a 15 ah battery from pingbattery.com.

Put it on a bike with a large enough frame triangle to fit the battery into the triangle space.
Click to expand...

I actually don't understand most of what you wrote there :/ Will have to dig a bit.
As for steep hills, the ones I am looking at are not that bad since I was able to go at them with a standard bike a few years ago, but since I am thinking of doing that everyday twice a day at a reasonable speed I want to be careful.
Truth be told, I don't really know much here.

wesnewell said:
This is the motor kit I'd recommend, but it's currently out of stock.
http://www.yescomusa.com/product.php?productid=729
When in stock, you can find them on ebay for under $280 shipped.
Put it on a 26" bike with steel dropouts. Replace the small tire with a bigger one and put some rim tape on the rim or you will get flat tires quick.
Battery choice would depend on what you want. I only use rc lipo, but it's not for everyone. 12s lipo is perfect for the controller that comes with the kit, With an LVC of 42V you can't over discharge a 12s lipo pack. For a round trip of 26 miles, you'd want 20ah of 12s lipo if you keep your speed to 25mph. Could get by with less if you go a little slower and help pedaling. Top speed on 12s lipo will be about 28 mph. Another choice would be a lifepo4 pack. A 10ah 16s A123 pack would get you to work and you could charge there fairly easily. For 2C packs like Ping and others, you'd need 15ah minimum to have enough amps to not stress the pack much. Again, you could charge these at work easily. How much battery you need is really going to depend on how much you want to assist. At slower speeds and doing moderate pedaling, you can stretch the range considerably. Even double it.
Click to expand...
if 280 is for the motor, how much would you say it would average with the rest, say picking the average components you mentioned and not the best ones.

Icewrench said:
I have a few bikes with different set ups on them.
You are welcome to stop by and try them out. Slow medium and faster.
Everyone likes faster, not sure why.
Near Greenlake
Click to expand...
I actually don't really care about the speed, more about the time :)
Thank you for the offer, do you have a store or are you just really nice?

pdf said:
What you want to accomplish is very do-able. Bike commuting is awesome. I recommend installing a "kit" or the equivalent parts bought a la cart on your own bike. I prefer a rear wheel installation but a lot of people have front installations and are happy with that.

As far as a motor, unless you are going to continuously climb very large hills, you can get away with any of several mid-sized hub motors, either direct drive or geared. Direct drive is, generally, faster and will have less parts. Gear drives are generally lighter for similar hill-climbing ability have the ability to free-wheel, which is either a positive (you can pedal without the motor and no drag) or negative (no regen. braking), depending on how you look at it. I have two bikes, both of which are killer climbers in their own rights. One uses a 9C 2810 (you probably can't find one now) on 72v. The equivalent might be a 9C 2808 on 48v. The only significant difference will be the current required for a certain power level; the 2808 on 48V will require more amps, but will have the advantage of readily available LiFePO4 battery packs and chargers. LiPO is awesome, but a bit more involved in many cases because you have to install your own battery monitoring system (BMS) if you want to use one and I have not been able to find cheap 72v chargers (although you can order one from a couple of places, like BMS battery). The primary advantage of LiPO are its weight and the ability to draw large currents from a small pack. However, you are going to need a fairly good-sized battery for that ride so you needn't be too worried about getting enough current. I think you can get a pack that will do the whole distance if you aren't aggressive with the throttle. Or you can charge at each end. I prefer to get a bigger battery and not worry with charging at work, since it is not easy to do. If you have a place inside with an outlet where you can put the bike each day, that is also very feasible.

My other bike uses a StokeMonkey middrive on an Xtracycle conversion. I can go 30 miles on very hilly terrain with a 15 Ahr, 36V LiFePO4 pack with this one; I have a 14 mile, round trip commute and I can do it twice if I forget to charge one night. This bike is a hauling machine. You can't believe the amount of stuff you can carry with it. If you want to haul a week's worth of groceries for a family of four up a 20% grade, it will do it and not even sweat. However it was pretty expensive if you just want to take yourself back and forth. I don't recommend the StokeMonkey if you don't plan on using the hauling capability, although I ride mine nearly every day to work, even though I am just hauling my laptop and raingear 90% of the time.

So I'd recommend a mid-sized hub motor set up with probably a 48V, 20 Ahr LiFePO4 battery. You will probably be able to get 35A out of it in bursts and that should be plenty for cruising up even very substantial hills. So get a good controller. I got my high amp one from Lyen, here on Endless Sphere. It was overkill for my use but it never even gets warm. On a mid-sized motor, don't run that much power continuously or you will probably burn it up, but for short hills, it will be fine, I suspect. I run 20-25A at 72V in bursts on my 9C 2810 and it has never been taxed to the point where it gets more than warm. I have a good sized controller and I never use that much current for more than a minute or so, probably. A 20 Ahr, 48V is a pretty good sized battery and you might want to get two 10Ahr batteries and parallel them, so long as you do it correctly, because it might be easier to put two smaller batteries on the bike. Depends on the bike. I recommend using a frame bag of some sort to put the battery in the front triangle because it distributes the weight better. If you have a bike with a large front triangle, you can probably get a single battery.

So, yes, you can do it and I highly recommend it. Cruising along virtually noiselessly for about 5 cents a day rocks. Unless it is raining buckets and then it rocks a bit less.
Click to expand...
The fact that you have enough power to pull big grocery bags on a steep hill is awesome!
Though, since I'm planning on doing that already twice a day, I'm thinking of limiting myself to that and therefore I don't need more.
As for everything else you mentioned that looks cool.
I am just not sure about putting all of that together myself.

I have been building computers and some chips for years, but I started gradually, this I fear I could really mess up and regret it.
Can I get still a good deal if I get a store to custom make me a ride?



Thanks for all the help guys!
 
gee said:
I am just not sure about putting all of that together myself.

I have been building computers and some chips for years, but I started gradually, this I fear I could really mess up and regret it.
Can I get still a good deal if I get a store to custom make me a ride?
Click to expand...

You probably don't need a store to build one for you. If you can change a tire and assemble a computer you can install a kit yourself. Here's Hyena Electric Bikes' excellent installation tutorial video that shows what you have to do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwIp3GC5F_c

See, you can do it pretty easily.

And here's part 1/6 of a longer, more detailed video:
How To Make an Electric Bike Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adOLJAfyrvY
 
280 for the motor kit. 100 for a bike. 250 for 20ah of 12s lipo. 100 for lipo charger. 100 for extras. I'm running 10ah 18s lipo on a 72v controller and total cost of everything including bike was ~$700, not counting charger.
 
Sorry if I got too tech there. I'll simplify it some and try again.

Battery. You'll need a big enough battery to do the ride at a relatively fast speed. A 10 amp hour size would be plenty if you rode slower, since slow takes less energy. With wind drag at speeds of 25 mph, a 15 amp hour battery size would be better. 48v battery will be more energetic than a 36v. Go for 48v if you have hills. Get a good battery, the best motor in the world will not perform with an undersize, inadequate battery. A 48v 15 ah battery will give you the range to not only do the commute, but do the long way home as you run some errands. And you will need every bit of 15 ah some day, with a headwind all the way.

Sounds like the hills aren't that bad, so pretty much any motor kit will do, except the very small ones. Avoid the smallest gearmotors that have 350w unless slow is ok with you. Sounds to me like you'd prefer the better speed up the hills to shorten your ride time. So look at larger gearmotors, or direct drive motors. 500-1000w. Wattage ratings of motors vary. But what you need is to have at least a 48v 20 amp controller. (there I go again) The Yes---- kit wesenwell mentions would definitely qualify if you are on a tighter budget.

What you plan is definitely doable. I did 3.5 years of bike commuting, about 8000 miles. 14 mile one way ride. Now I'm sick and have to drive again, but the bike worked great for me at that distance.

Again, go do some looking at the Grin Cyclery website. The FAQ's there explain things much better than most websites.
 
No hidden retail agenda here.
The bikes I have are not consumer ready,
they all require some degree of tinkering by the operator.
You will learn more putting your own bike together.

The offer is for an hour of e bike 101 with test rides.
No charge.
 
wesnewell said:
This is the motor kit I'd recommend, but it's currently out of stock.
http://www.yescomusa.com/product.php?productid=729
When in stock, you can find them on ebay for under $280 shipped.
Click to expand...

I see that you have recommended this kit many times. Is it that good? How is the quality? When do you think they will restock?
I am in a similar position as the OP but don't need as much range or power.

A lot of people recommend lipos so would a 12s 10ah battery do
20 miles at 20mph (without killing them)
with a little peddling on fairly even roads
 
You will find you will get a lot of different recommendations from different people.

I think it is a very bad idea to recommend bare lipo batteries to noobs. I'd highly recommend 95% of ebike noobs, who are just trying to commute to work, stick with a prebuilt LiFEPo4 battery pack that is plug and play, especially people that are doing a %80 discharge twice a day. With LiPo they would likely have to replace and reconfigure the battery after one year of use.

I would recommend something like this. Get all your parts from Paul (cell_man) emissions-free.com and combine shipping
48V 11.5Ah battery $600 with charger
$365 500Watt MAC motor kit with controller, throttle, ebrakes etc. (or maybe even 500w dd kit for $190 less)
Shipping from China $200 or something.
+ a 26" bike

You can also get a plug and play battery from pingbattery.com and motorkit elsewhere.
$600 48v 10-15Ah from pingbattery.com with shipping (Batteries are a bit expensive at ebikes.ca, but come with a bit more support than direct from China)
$500 Nine Continent Kit from ebikes.ca (pick up in person?)
+ a bike

Go check out Icewrench's bikes, so you can see what different setups are like.

You will likely end up spending $1000 or so plus the bike.
 
I generally tell people that new to get a pingbattery, or one from emissions free, depending on their needs for range. Easy to understand, leave it on the charger overnight, and you are good to go in the morning.

By "dogmans law" Using a 36v battery you get 1 amp hour per mile at 20 -25 mph including a small reserve for better battery lifespan. So at 44v with 12 s lipo, you should have range for 10 miles for sure.

But don't get a weak discharge rate 10 ah battery, and run it on a big motor and 20 amp controller. If you get a ping, or ebay equivilant, get 15 ah minimum.
 
Icewrench said:
Everyone likes faster, not sure why.
Click to expand...

That is a "Priceless Quote"! :)
 
I enjoy to TINKER but at times it's a real pain. DOGMAN has a good point of the LiFePO4 set up from Ping or Cellman. Plug and play.
I have to watch my LiFePO4 pack like a hawk because I've made my own without the BMS (battery management system). The Ping
and Cellman LiFePO4 packs have BMS and you just plug in the charger and the charger auto-shutoff.

Near the end of my charge I'm holding a 100watt light bulb with wires coming off it discharging runaway cells! lol
A real pain...... but I like to be in control! lol

If you are mechanically inclined at all, you will end up building more than one ebike. You'll experiment and you'll probably
get to see the "Big Blue Spark" lol Happy Building!

And put your build thread with pictures/videos up here for us to see your progress! :)

You can watch my video if you go to my Hoolagan Build thread below. Lots of pictures there too.
But be warned..... I'm a bit of a mad man running close to 150Volts DC of batteries in a BackPack! :twisted: :lol: :mrgreen: :wink:

Tommy L sends..... \\m// Rocking Onward every single day! \\m//
 
The demo rides happened.
Now I guess we wait and see if the electron altered his perception of the world.




We all know it has. :mrgreen: 8)
 
What is your perception of the different rides?

Tommy L sends.... \\m//
 
Hello everyone,

yesterday Icewrench was very nice and let me tried 3 of his e-bikes and explained a lot about them to me.
At first I was surprised by the fact that I did not need to actually pedal to get going... I guess this is the difference between what people called an e-bike and an electrical-assist bike or something like this.
After trying this, there is no way I would want an ezip :)

Although on some of the steep hills, I still had to pedal quite a bit, which to me is a good thing as it means I cannot get lazy and just let the engine do the work for ever(if I wanted that I wouldn't get a bicycle...).
Same on level ground I was totally able to not use the engine at all, but knowing I would have it when I would need it.
It probably helps both mentally and physically in the long commutes...

One of the 3 bikes was heavier, and somehow I felt less comfortable and more scared at "high" speed.
Crazy me was talking a few posts ago about 20+ mph and yet past 13mph on the heavy one and 15mph on the 2 other ones I was already getting scared (though I haven't biked in a while).

Icewrench showed me many things to look for or be careful about when picking a (e-)bike and now I am hesitating between buying a 2nd hand bike + a good kit online vs buying a prebuilt e-bike.
I guess I am just worried of really messing up, and potentially messing me up too...
I have to look at things, but at the same time I do not want to wait too much before starting... the best way to learn is to do it right?

This week will be pretty busy at work so I won't have much time to do my research, but I hope to get back to it this weekend, and have my bike ready for my vacation in a few weeks.

Thank you!
 
gee said:
Hello everyone,

yesterday Icewrench was very nice and let me tried 3 of his e-bikes and explained a lot about them to me.
At first I was surprised by the fact that I did not need to actually pedal to get going... I guess this is the difference between what people called an e-bike and an electrical-assist bike or something like this.
After trying this, there is no way I would want an ezip :)
Click to expand...

ezips climb hills better than most (but not all) hub-powered e-bikes in my not-so-humble opinion

.
 
el_walto said:
I would recommend something like this. Get all your parts from Paul (cell_man) emissions-free.com and combine shipping
48V 11.5Ah battery $600 with charger
$365 500Watt MAC motor kit with controller, throttle, ebrakes etc. (or maybe even 500w dd kit for $190 less)
Shipping from China $200 or something.
+ a 26" bike

You can also get a plug and play battery from pingbattery.com and motorkit elsewhere.
$600 48v 10-15Ah from pingbattery.com with shipping (Batteries are a bit expensive at ebikes.ca, but come with a bit more support than direct from China)
$500 Nine Continent Kit from ebikes.ca (pick up in person?)
+ a bike
Click to expand...

Do this.

Cellman battery if think you might get speed happy and want high performance down the line. Otherwise the 15ah Ping would be okay.

Forget lipo. That is a hobby. Do you want a hobby or transportation that is plug n play?

Don't be afraid to spend a few extra hundred bucks on good parts like from cellman, and a decent bike to put it all on. It's worth it. Don't penny pinch. I would suggest the geared Mac motor over the direct drive since you have hills. It will be a lot more efficient and better performance for the same power input.
 
ddk said:
gee said:
Hello everyone,

yesterday Icewrench was very nice and let me tried 3 of his e-bikes and explained a lot about them to me.
At first I was surprised by the fact that I did not need to actually pedal to get going... I guess this is the difference between what people called an e-bike and an electrical-assist bike or something like this.
After trying this, there is no way I would want an ezip :)
Click to expand...

ezips climb hills better than most (but not all) hub-powered e-bikes in my not-so-humble opinion

.
Click to expand...
I was thinking (maybe wrongly) that ezip would not move without any user pedaling, which would then make it harder on a fresh up-hill start.
 
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