Lessss
1 MW
Looks like Saint John is about to follow Toronto
Someone with a scooter looking one pushed it...
If you send an email BE NICE.
Someone with a scooter looking one pushed it...
If you send an email BE NICE.
N.B. Saint John parks about to ban ebikes
- Thread starter Lessss
- Start date
liveforphysics
100 TW
So, enforcement will be based on having a motor engaged? I would love to see how they prove that.
regmeister
100 W
- Joined
- May 9, 2009
- Messages
- 263
Extortionists don't need proof.
999zip999
100 TW
In the states it is a policy for all police officer's to lie and for their parner to lie for them it's the blue code of silient. And for the D.A. to tell them how to set up the case to tell their truth.
dogman dan
1 PW
That law is as dumb as saying the other bikes are not bikes because they look like scooters. Take the pedals off and they become scooters. Possibly arguable that they become scooters if the pedals are folded. But if the pedals work, the law does not say you have to push on them.
Just post a slow speed limit for everybody within the park, pedaling, motoring , skating, whatever. That you can at least have a way for the officer to try to prove the violation. How they reached the dangerous speed in the park doesn't matter. Just as big a hazard if a rollerblader can't controll himself on a downhill grade.
Just post a slow speed limit for everybody within the park, pedaling, motoring , skating, whatever. That you can at least have a way for the officer to try to prove the violation. How they reached the dangerous speed in the park doesn't matter. Just as big a hazard if a rollerblader can't controll himself on a downhill grade.
Lessss
1 MW
Great comment, email it to the email addy provided.
Lock
100 MW
Lessss... can you attach this doc please?
As an example of how retarded these arguments can become, here are the two pics distributed to Toronto Parks staff to illustrate which ebikes are OK and which ebikes are Spawn of Satan...
View attachment 1
Lock
100 MW
BTW Lessss...
Would you kindly ask Emilie where she is getting this information please?
(link to a web page, or name of individual in emails with City of Toronto staff)
Lock
Would you kindly ask Emilie where she is getting this information please?
(link to a web page, or name of individual in emails with City of Toronto staff)
Lock
I wonder what they would say about my recumbent trike.. 
liveforphysics said:
by motion of legs .. vs machine moving and legs not being used on the pedals.
The fingers
10 TW
Ghost pedaling or coasting will not be tolerated! 
even ghost pedaling on those ebike wannabe-scooters is a joke.. yes i've tried.
I have nothing against electric scooters, dont get me wrong here, but they are not pedal assisted bicycles by any stretch of the imagination.
Luke's deathbike is more ebike than those scooters are.
I have nothing against electric scooters, dont get me wrong here, but they are not pedal assisted bicycles by any stretch of the imagination.
Luke's deathbike is more ebike than those scooters are.
number1cruncher
1 kW
This should be about two issues:
1. Safety - As Dogman says, its the speed that hurts someone, not the mode which it is acheived.
2. Pollution - I can see not allowing gassers on a park trail, because it would cause air and noise pollution, especially 2-strokes. An ebike is quiet with zero emissions, unless you eat a bean burrito before your journey.
BTW - What would they say about Amberwolf's creations? And what about razor scooters, no pedals there?
1. Safety - As Dogman says, its the speed that hurts someone, not the mode which it is acheived.
2. Pollution - I can see not allowing gassers on a park trail, because it would cause air and noise pollution, especially 2-strokes. An ebike is quiet with zero emissions, unless you eat a bean burrito before your journey.
BTW - What would they say about Amberwolf's creations? And what about razor scooters, no pedals there?
Lessss
1 MW
The doc is about a bunch of other things with one blurb on ebikes.
ELECTRIC BIKES
An electric bike is primarily constructed of a bicycle type frame with pedals with an electric motor providing additional power when required. The overall appearance is that of a bicycle. It is the policy of the department to NOT register these types of vehicles and that they be treated in the same manner as a bicycle in terms of highway operation.
ELECTRIC SCOOTERS AND MOPEDS
These are vehicles that have the distinct appearance of a scooter or moped but are powered by an electric motor. These kinds of vehicles are to be treated as a motor driven cycle and registered and insured. The definition of motor driven cycle should be amended to allow for this policy to be in place as soon as possible.
------------
In N.B. Motor driven cycles are allowed up to 60Km/hr IIRC
Basically they are ignoring 1.21 and classifying the vehicles by how they LOOK. Probably to ease the confusion of the low IQ cops.
ELECTRIC BIKES
An electric bike is primarily constructed of a bicycle type frame with pedals with an electric motor providing additional power when required. The overall appearance is that of a bicycle. It is the policy of the department to NOT register these types of vehicles and that they be treated in the same manner as a bicycle in terms of highway operation.
ELECTRIC SCOOTERS AND MOPEDS
These are vehicles that have the distinct appearance of a scooter or moped but are powered by an electric motor. These kinds of vehicles are to be treated as a motor driven cycle and registered and insured. The definition of motor driven cycle should be amended to allow for this policy to be in place as soon as possible.
------------
In N.B. Motor driven cycles are allowed up to 60Km/hr IIRC
Basically they are ignoring 1.21 and classifying the vehicles by how they LOOK. Probably to ease the confusion of the low IQ cops.
Lessss
1 MW
send her an email yourself email at top of this topic
Lessss
1 MW
You will likely soon find out as they are getting this "looks like a bike" thing from the minister of transport and it is likely to be the basis of N.B. law soon. Even before it becomes law it's the policy the police will be enforcing.
If you don't think cops enforce unwritten law policies look up Thomas Ball and the second set of books.
Lock
100 MW
Seen on Wikipedia (uncredited and undated):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#New_Brunswick
Amazing. I had no idea one of the Provinces still has not passed legislation legalizing ebikes...
Lock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#New_Brunswick
Amazing. I had no idea one of the Provinces still has not passed legislation legalizing ebikes...
Lock
Lessss
1 MW
I wrote that wiki entry
N.B. , NWT, and Nunavut have no legislation.
PEI classes them as mopeds.
I replied with
There was a huge list of pic of weird and odd ebike and regular bikes....
Of course no acknowledgement of that email or an actual response. In essence the bureaucracy has usurped the law making authority of the legislature to create "policy laws" which are not laws but being enforced as if they were.
N.B. , NWT, and Nunavut have no legislation.
PEI classes them as mopeds.
I replied with
There was a huge list of pic of weird and odd ebike and regular bikes....
Of course no acknowledgement of that email or an actual response. In essence the bureaucracy has usurped the law making authority of the legislature to create "policy laws" which are not laws but being enforced as if they were.
Lessss
1 MW
Phoebus - that is what they are doing effectively is a ban on the "looks like a scooter" ebikes outright and additionally you are not allowed to use the motor on the stealth ones. So either way its a ban.
At this point I have not ordered any more inventory in(didn't last year either since the economy tanked) and am just selling what I have left (less than 15 bikes) to see how this all breaks and if they go stupid I'll be moving out of the province.
At this point I have not ordered any more inventory in(didn't last year either since the economy tanked) and am just selling what I have left (less than 15 bikes) to see how this all breaks and if they go stupid I'll be moving out of the province.
Hello Emilie !
My name is Gaston, i am located in Moncton, i recently found a discussion involving Saint John and " Ebikes ", I believe you are already in contact with Les Leblanc who is a citizen of Saint John, and sells " Ebikes " and/or " E-scooters " in the area.
I thought i might provide some feedback and my point of view having been a user of electric bicycles for many years and have also built a number of them for various individuals in NB.
I admit that i am not a lawyer or a legally minded individual by any strech of the imagination but i am very familiar with the techncial aspects of bicycles, batteries and all that the movement represents.
One of the items being proposed, if it " Looks like a bicycle " and " If it looks like a scooter ", is a very tricky one and not clear for officers to use as a measure to perform their duties.
My personal opinion on the subject, " Are the pedals being used ? " is a more accurate method of measure. Some E-bikes are equipped with pedals and sensors that require the rider to pedal in order for the motor to function, while other ebikes will allow the motor to function without the pedals being used.
There are many non-conventional designs in the bicycle world that " Do not look like a bicycle " but are not electrically powered. Are those to be ticketed as well ? Some very talented people build their own bicycles to suit their needs, from artists to the physically challenged..
Something to consider, many ( not all ) individuals who purchase and use the " Looks like a scooter " bikes, are low income, and they use what they can afford, the entry level electric scooters are very under powered, slow, and it's not reasonable to justify paying registration, insurance, etc costs on a sub 500$ bike... Given the technical restrictions of these types of scooters, i believe they should be allowed as long as the user is wearing a helmet, operating the vehicle in a safe manner, following the rules of the road as applicable to anyone walking, jogging, roller blading, skateboarding etc.. they are a clean and quiet means of transportation that should be encouraged and over time will become known to the general public and adopted as an alternative to using a car/truck/suv to get do one's destination.. ( how many cars do you see on the road with a single driver, and no passengers ? .. )
I am personally not a fan of these scooters, but what right do i have to put restrictions on what people who have very little alternatives financially or physically, can use to commute vs expensive taxi or not avilable city bus routes etc..? Pedaling these " Electric Scooters " is near impossible, with the wide deck between the pedals, one would dislocate a hip or injure themselves trying to go any meaningfull distances with them not using the motor. I have tried a number of them and can attest to this.
On the other side of the coin, regualr bicycles, converted to electric with a kit, or " looks like a bicycle " ebikes pre-fabricated and sold ready to ride, that have pedals integrated into the desing are easy to pedal and assist the limited power bike on hills or windy days, some riders may not have the ability to pedal and use the motor only ( I have arthritis, and some days my knees dont play nice... i use the motor only at times ) .. just another point to consider.
If you ever happen to be in Moncton, i welcome you to give me a call at 506 xxx-xxxx and come over to try one of my many ebikes, get a seat of the pants point of view of what an ebike really is, you never know, you might have just have fun !
If you have any questions or would like to speak with me, i would gladly welcome a discussion ( after 4pm pls, as i am at work from 8am to 4pm )
Cheers !
Gaston Daigle
http://www.ypedal.com
My name is Gaston, i am located in Moncton, i recently found a discussion involving Saint John and " Ebikes ", I believe you are already in contact with Les Leblanc who is a citizen of Saint John, and sells " Ebikes " and/or " E-scooters " in the area.
I thought i might provide some feedback and my point of view having been a user of electric bicycles for many years and have also built a number of them for various individuals in NB.
I admit that i am not a lawyer or a legally minded individual by any strech of the imagination but i am very familiar with the techncial aspects of bicycles, batteries and all that the movement represents.
One of the items being proposed, if it " Looks like a bicycle " and " If it looks like a scooter ", is a very tricky one and not clear for officers to use as a measure to perform their duties.
My personal opinion on the subject, " Are the pedals being used ? " is a more accurate method of measure. Some E-bikes are equipped with pedals and sensors that require the rider to pedal in order for the motor to function, while other ebikes will allow the motor to function without the pedals being used.
There are many non-conventional designs in the bicycle world that " Do not look like a bicycle " but are not electrically powered. Are those to be ticketed as well ? Some very talented people build their own bicycles to suit their needs, from artists to the physically challenged..
Something to consider, many ( not all ) individuals who purchase and use the " Looks like a scooter " bikes, are low income, and they use what they can afford, the entry level electric scooters are very under powered, slow, and it's not reasonable to justify paying registration, insurance, etc costs on a sub 500$ bike... Given the technical restrictions of these types of scooters, i believe they should be allowed as long as the user is wearing a helmet, operating the vehicle in a safe manner, following the rules of the road as applicable to anyone walking, jogging, roller blading, skateboarding etc.. they are a clean and quiet means of transportation that should be encouraged and over time will become known to the general public and adopted as an alternative to using a car/truck/suv to get do one's destination.. ( how many cars do you see on the road with a single driver, and no passengers ? .. )
I am personally not a fan of these scooters, but what right do i have to put restrictions on what people who have very little alternatives financially or physically, can use to commute vs expensive taxi or not avilable city bus routes etc..? Pedaling these " Electric Scooters " is near impossible, with the wide deck between the pedals, one would dislocate a hip or injure themselves trying to go any meaningfull distances with them not using the motor. I have tried a number of them and can attest to this.
On the other side of the coin, regualr bicycles, converted to electric with a kit, or " looks like a bicycle " ebikes pre-fabricated and sold ready to ride, that have pedals integrated into the desing are easy to pedal and assist the limited power bike on hills or windy days, some riders may not have the ability to pedal and use the motor only ( I have arthritis, and some days my knees dont play nice... i use the motor only at times ) .. just another point to consider.
If you ever happen to be in Moncton, i welcome you to give me a call at 506 xxx-xxxx and come over to try one of my many ebikes, get a seat of the pants point of view of what an ebike really is, you never know, you might have just have fun !
If you have any questions or would like to speak with me, i would gladly welcome a discussion ( after 4pm pls, as i am at work from 8am to 4pm )
Cheers !
Gaston Daigle
http://www.ypedal.com
cal3thousand
10 MW
Lock said:
It looks like they are against under-seat storage....could be housing a bomb or something
Lock
100 MW
cal3thousand said:It looks like they are against under-seat storage....could be housing a bomb or something
Actually they are granola-eaters... left-over 60's folks that believe EVerybuddy should be pedaling, and only use safety concerns as an excuse (with no studies or experience to back up their claims.) As "active transportation" proponents, they seek to usurp public lands for their own narrow agenda and disenfranchise those that do not agree with their perspective.
Lock
Lessss
1 MW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54345&hilit=+nb+ebike+fight
