Has anyone used front rack/boxes to balance battery w/ hub?

skaplan

10 W
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
82
Location
Missouri
I did a quick search and didn't turn up much, but it seems to me that throwing a split battery into a pair of front paniers or better a pair of nice safe boxes mounted next to the front tire would really help balance the bike. Is there some reason why this is a bad idea?

-SK
 
Not really, just awkward to implement unless the bike is designed for it. You don't want to add weight to the bottom of a shock fork though, bad enough the hubmotor on one end. Saw one guy years ago with two boxes set so low on the front wheel it looked designed to catch chihuahuas.

Oatnets Specialised FSR is the best example I've seen. Above the working end of the shocks, a box mounted just in front of the handlebars. Not quite what you are thinking of I guess, but the best place to mount a front battery with a shock fork. There is no particular advantage in my opinion to having the weight really low, like even with the axle. But a front pannier rack that carried boxes between the axle and the headset should work good on a non shock fork.

If you have a triangle in the frame, put the battery there of course. Or do the saddlebag style carry just behind the headset. That's worked great on my dirt bike. Awkward to pedal around the box, but I rarely pedal that bike.
 
I was always intruged with SteveCA's setup.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4852
He put a long and heavy duty BMX axle on his front wheel and hung battery boxes off both ends of that axle.
His reasoning for doing that was also to balance out the heavy Clyte motor in the rear by putting the batts up front.

I was skeptical at first (thinking it would be difficult to steer) but when he let me test ride it around it was
actually easy and stable. I wouldn't do any off-road riding with it but for street use it worked well.
 
BMX style handle bars work pretty well as a mounting structure for an ammo-box battery. I mount a piece of 1/2" plywood to the front of my handle bar w/ u-bolts and just use a small ratchet strap to hold it there, whether it's the ping 48v15ahr or some other rectangular object.

takes a little getting used to, but nicely balances weight to the front if you have a rear hub of any size.
 
You dug deep to find that one Sacman. I just thought it funny looking when I first saw it, and still do. I see no problem with it, other than it would likely be easier to do, to get a front pannier rack and just mount boxes higher on that. Below the top of the wheel should be low enough.

Too bad the pics are gone, as they are on many old threads, but you can still see it in his avatar.
 
I'm looking at moving the batteries on my girlfriend's trek. Right now she has a 24v30ah ping pack on the rear rack feeding the crystalyte hub... Put them together and it half feels like they outweigh her. Our thought was replacing the ping with comparable A123s from cellman split into 2 batteries mounted on panier racks on the front wheel. I would try mounting batteries in the triangle, but on a 13 inch bike there barely is a triangle at all. I was thinking something like the tubus swing front rack http://www.tubus.com/product.php?xn=65 would work with a suspension fork.

-SK
 
How about up front, up high?
Oatnet's A-line. This thread has a lot of talk about the pro's and con's of such a placement. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34230&start=45#p512638
Adam333's A-line. Yes, I have a thing for the A-line. But this build is really sweet. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37182
 
(rustles in jimmies)

bat box cover version 2.jpg

cc run outfit.jpg


...is what I did.
having apehanger handlebars made this an easy choice.
Putting the weight of the batteries over the stem solved several handling issues, but created some new ones.
 
Nice use of chloroplast. I'll bet there'll be plenty of that stuff in trash heaps here in the USA come second week in November...
 
Sacman said:
@ddk:

That almost looks like a large old-skool picture tube TV on your handle bar... hehe
And is that a regular 4-leg chair you got for the seat? :shock: ... NIIICE! ,,,LOL :mrgreen:
:lol:

someone commented I needed to mount disintegrator rayguns on it
...and wear a funny helmet
like that martian invader guy from the old Warner Bros cartoons
 
Agreed, ping on the back and a rear hub sucks. One of my bikes has that configuration, I know. Tolerable with less weight, like 7 pounds of RC lipo. Thats why I remain a front hub commuter, so I can carry a ping or even two pings in the back. It's a dilemma, you want range, then it's hard to carry it.

Best solution may well be a bike with room for the ping in the triangle, when you really think about it.
 
ddk said:
Sacman said:
@ddk:

That almost looks like a large old-skool picture tube TV on your handle bar... hehe
And is that a regular 4-leg chair you got for the seat? :shock: ... NIIICE! ,,,LOL :mrgreen:
:lol:

someone commented I needed to mount disintegrator rayguns on it
...and wear a funny helmet
like that martian invader guy from the old Warner Bros cartoons
I remember him ... Marvin the Martian ... (damn I just dated myself; that's how old I am)
...oh well the beer buzz and BBQ got me soo relaxed while enjoying the July 4th off from work so when you mentioned that martian vivid memories popped up in my head right away. :mrgreen:
 
I found Oatnets front mount inspirational and while I couldn't find the shape box I was looking for, I eventually mounted a lighter duty box on a front rack . Its a bit high because of the racks braces, but it is quite sturdy. The only thing about this set up with 11.5 ah 36 v Cellman battery, amd maybe its true for all front mounts, is that it handles quite well at speed but is a bit unwieldy in tigh spots/slow speeds. But with the second battery mid-mount, and the HS3540 in the rear, weight is fairly well distributed.
 

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A few years ago a guy posted his battery solution hanging off both sides of the front axle just a few inches off the ground. He loved it and said it affected handling very little. I've got about 14lbs of battery in front of my headset, and it affects handling very little. Plus my bike is heavy enough with over 60lbs in the swingarm that the high mounted 14lbs isn't a stability issue while off the bike either. That weight up front helps, but the bike still has no problem going to one wheel despite my low and forward COG, but that's what 30kw on tap does for you. :mrgreen:

John
 
John in CR said:
A few years ago a guy posted his battery solution hanging off both sides of the front axle just a few inches off the ground. He loved it and said it affected handling very little.
That's probably the one Sacman posted about up here:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=605503#p605503

I remember seeing that one and pondering trying it, too, when I first found ES. I wish the pics were still there. :(


FWIW, the handling of a front battery (or anything else) depends a lot on how far away from the pivot point it is. If it is right on the pivot, like those boxes of SteveCA's, or Adam's or Oatnet's, or another one Liveforphysics posted pics of in one of the Grange race threads (I think), it'll probably be nearly as responsive and easy to ride as with an unloaded fork. But if you put the weight out away from the pivot, you have a lot harder time turning the bars or stopping htem at the end of hte turn, based on my experiences with various cargo loads in front baskets/racks.

Also, ifyou mount hte batteries on the axle or anywhere on the unsuspended part of the front suspsension, you get the same less-responsive suspension you would with a hubmotor in the wheel. (or worse if the battery weighs more). If you can moutn it on the suspended part of the bike, you'll get better suspension response.

One last thing--it's possible to mount the box on a frame extension from the top/down/headtubes, so that it does not pivot iwth the fork/bars, and does not affect hte steering at all. I would like to do this on the Fusin test bike, but haven't had time to make the mount for the ammocan pack.
 
I agree with the swing weight. I put 8 pounds of nicads on a front mount, but the weight was about 3" too far forward. Fine in the street, but it slowed my reaction time in the dirt too much to like it for off road riding.

That was on my Fuji, with the 24" 5304 in the back. I'd messed up so bad putting a bigger front wheel and taller fork on it, I needed all the weight I could get to keep the front wheel on the ground. So a great deal of the handling issue was not really a result of the battery placement. The bike was just bad from the get go. Moving 8 pounds of battery to the frame helped, and moving another 8 pounds to the handlebars got the wheel back down ok. But the pinch flats from running over rocks with a hardtail never could be solved. fuji blaster. JPEG.jpg
 
I carry 4 bricks of Lipo on the front of the fork, and that is as much as I can mount and keep the bike's proper handling in the mountain. If I carry another 4, they are mounted on the frame near the seat tube. They are not a nuisance to handling and can survive a crash when mounted that way. 4 bricks could go under the down tube if I finally build my skid plate, but i wouldn't take the risk without that essential protection.

dscf1059ux.jpg


dscf1060of.jpg
 
My bike is full suspension with no triangle space and a rear motor. I've been using a small handlebar bag similar to MadRhino with either 3 x 6s 8 amp hour lipo bricks and it works very well. Battery goes on and off in seconds and it does not affect steering or suspension noticeably, but not enough battery capacity for longer rides or high power riding.

Now I've got 9 bricks of 6s 5 amp hour lipo I tried to mount on the fork similar to oatnet. I built a wood box to house the batteries because I couldn't find an appropriate sized container locally and I didn't want to spend much. I found that my wooden box severely affected the suspension and handling of the bike even though I moved the weight on the fork lower just a few inches above the front wheel.

So I then tried two handlebar bags with 8 bricks of lipo instead of 9 since that's all I could fit in my bags. I mounted one bag on the handlebars and another directly below it on a pair of right angle brackets hose clamped to the fork. To my surprise the handling was MUCH better than my wood box even though the weight was pretty much the same minus one battery.

I'll second what amberwolf said above. I think the important thing with the front mount is to keep the weight as close to the pivot point as possible. The battery configuration in my box was sitting about eight to nine inches away from the pivot point at its furthest point compared with the battery bags only being about 4" away from the pivot point.
 
Yes I am running 36v lead acid mounted on a custom made steel rack that attaches to the headstock. I am amazed how much better the bike rides(rear hub motor)! I go 210lb. and with the batteries in the back the bike was way too imbalanced. It balances and feels much like a motorcycle now. In my opinion, this is the only way to go! The battery weight actually is an advantage in the balancing.The handlebars are not obstructed by the battery in any way. I made the rack out of steel angle iron and it is STRONG! it is attached using two large ubolts. I don't jump curbs but I don't think it would hurt anything. The old aluminum rack I was running in the back collapsed down on the rear wheel from the battery weight when I came off a 3 inch curb.
 
I extended some aluminum angle stock from the top-tube of the frame, past the head set, and mounted a basket over the front wheel for the 10 lb battery. I did this to get some extra weight over the front hub motor (I was losing traction on hills). It is a folder so the weight sits pretty low. And it seems plenty secure, and does not seem to adversely affect handling. Robert
 
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