How fun is a High powered Mtb E-bike

I've put in over 20-30 hours reseraching Ebikes this week, and am going to be spending a good amount of money on my build.
I am giong high powered with 24s2p or close to 90 volts with a HS3540 motor.

I was wondering is all this time invested worth it? How fun are these bikes when they weigh much more. How do they handle going off road, assuming I keep mountain bike tires.

Does the handling of the bike get completly changed with all the extra weight? Will I ever manual pedal the bike again. Is the drag from the hub motor too much to make it worthwhile.

Will I want to drive a non-ebike again after converting?

I can't wait to get my E-bike built and am looking forward to it very much. But one thing I noticed in this forum is I very rarely hear anybodies opinion on how they like riding an E-bike. I did read someone who is building a similar build say he put in 400 hours into his project and said he would not do it again.

Oh, and I am talking fun factor as I do not need the bike to commute with.

All of the answers are subjective, and depend on the kind of bike you use, terrain you're on, and what you expect out of it.

So, the EV grinnnnn plastered on our faces does not denote fun in any way? Lots of fun if you build, maintain and ride it right not so much if you cheap out on the build or crash. How much fun depends on how much skin stays on the bod when compared to that on the pavement and how much time you spend riding when compared to in the ER.

I put my first ebike together one evening. For me it was pretty easy, but I'm sure for some it may be difficult. I'm certain my wife wouldn't have it done by now even, some 1.5 years later. I didn't build mine to have fun on it. I built it for the experience of building it and to assist my riding up hills when needed. To this day I still use it mostly to exercise this 66 year old body riding around at 10 mph pedaling along with it 99% of the time. On some occasions I ride it to store or other places I want go where there are hills I just couldn't get up without gearing down to 2 mph and sweating my butt off, and I want to get wherever it is in a hurry but don't want to take the car. But compared to riding my stationary bike it's a lot more enjoyable. I don't think I'd have put one together just for fun.

How fun is the lightest motocycle you ever rode? Pretty damn fun!

But one bit of advice I often give out, and have done myself. Don't ruin the very best bike you ever owned by adding a motor. If you reallly like your pedaler, leave it be for pedaling. Then go get something adequate for motoring. The best pedaler and the best bike to put a motor on are NOT the same bike.

We disagree all the time here, but my opinion is that bikes in the $200-$1000 msrp make good ebikes. Too low and you don't get good brakes on many models, too high and the frames get too lightened. In the middle, kinda heavy but with low end but still decent components works well. Trek 820 for example, or maybe FS bikes 5 or more years old that once were top of the line, but sell used under $500 now.

Once you strap it on, you won't be converting back to pedaling again. It's definitely two bikes. You won't pedal a 40 mph bike, AT ALL. If you built a 25 mph bike, then you could pedal along with the motor all you want. You can eliminate drag with a tiny trickle of throttle, perhaps using a low setting on a 3 speed switch. Bear in mind, you just added 25 pounds of weight, so you need 50w to help with that load too, at least.

But it won't be happening when you build an ultralight motorcycle. You'd need a 70 tooth chainring. Build with a 48 tooth front, 11 tooth rear, and use the three speed switch to travel less than 30 mph when you want to pedal along with the motor.

+1 to what Dogman has to say.

24s lipo on a high speed motor(hs3540) is not an E bike.
It is an ultralight motorcycle that has cop pedals.

Yes it will effect handling.
Yup, you will never pedal @ 40+mph again.
Drag oh ya.

Will I want to drive a non-ebike again after converting?

Click to expand...

I dont.

Is it the most fun I've ever had sober? YES YES YES

Build it and you will smile.

fun? YES

and I pedal at 30mph. I don't pedal at 40mph because it changes handling of the bike. Above 40mph it looks like the bikes wants to do shimmy. I get rid of that by standing on the pedals.

Riding off road with a HS 3540 at 24s will be a lot of fun, or damn scary, according to your balls and experience. :wink:

You have to know that with this setup, you will be condemned to ride FAST, or else you will kill the motor.
I don't ride this motor in the mountain when trail conditions are bad and I can't speed.
When conditions are good, it is my favorite setup, because of its light weight. When the mountain is bad, I use a much bigger motor.

Yep, that will be a good setup for roads where you can still do 30 mph. To fly down washboard dirt roads though, you'll need a pretty good FS bike. You'll beat the snot out of a hardtail.

I ride a more junky bike on dirt, and use slow motors so I can't go faster than 25 mph. Even so, my derailur disasembled itself the other day.

Pedaling at 40 mph, as some of you may have noticed, the extra weight of an ebike tends to increase the side to side flexing of the frame induced by pedaling. So pedaling at higher speeds requires a very stiff frame. Put battery weight on a rear rack, and you'll see frames bend alarmingly as you wag your tail by pedaling at even slow speeds. Don't think for one second about doing off road riding with batteries on a rear rack, or in a backpack.

That's why steel frame cheap bikes beat aluminum frame cheap bikes. The aluminum wall mart bikes flex like crazy.

Lengthening the wheelbase helps with the tankslapper shimmys too.

IMO 20-30 hours of research is only scratching the surface.

Also kind of depends if you like riding pedal bikes. If you have never been interested in cycling, and have never really rode a bike, than an ebike may not be what you are expecting.

Also, I'm starting to wonder why the absolute newbs want to go with the highest power setup possible for the first build? 100v lithium battery array is basically a bomb in the wrong hands. I've seen my fair share of "more money than brains" accidents, and aftermaths, including one of my richest clients who burned half his face off in a fire/explosion trying to start a new high performance seadoo.

Not trying to scare anyone, just citing some life experiences here. I could have easily afforded to build a very high power ebike for my first build, but chose not to because of my inexperience with ebikes. I have plenty of RC lipo experience, and 4 years of formal electronics schooling, and still decided it would be best to start small and work my way up after gaining experience. It also cost a lot less to setup a slower, safer, more reliable, tested and true 48v system, in which I could gauge my interest in ebikes, and decide weather or not I even wanted to take it to the next level.

Right now I must say that my modest 27mph, full suspension rig has been amazing fun, and I look forward to riding it whenever I can. So much fun that I started acquiring parts to do a 72v setup, not so much for more top end, but for more acceleration. Some may say I am too cautious, but then again I still have an intact face and body.

For me, it is simple: I'd rather ride my ebike to work than drive to work. Most of the time, the car sits in the garage. Riding my ebike to and from work is often the best part of my day. It is similar to sailing a boat, if you've ever done that; virtually silent, wind in your face, the amount of energy you use is negligible from a sustainability perspective. I think people don't talk about it for the same reason people in a sailing club don't sit around and say, "You know, I really like sailing".

I have a non-ebike also. I have barely ridden it since I got my ebike set up, but that is because while I very much enjoy being outside, the experience of pedaling the bike is secondary. I do not enjoy muscling up hills. I'd probably not have bothered with an ebike if I did not have hills. I started riding my pedal bike but the hills sucked all the enjoyment out of it for me. My primary bike has a mid-drive to a non-freewheeling crank, so I have to pedal if the motor is running, but my other bike has a hub motor and I pedal on that one also. In either case, I am barely pedaling. In my experience, if the motor goes you, life is going to suck trying to pedal if there is anything resembling a hill, unless you plan from the git-go for a superlight build. On the other hand, I use my bike as my primary means of commuting and it has to get me home if I come down with the flu at work, which means I want to get home if I can't pedal at all. And my route is very hilly so I could not use a superlight build. True story: a bit less than a year ago, I had a pulmonary embolism at work on a Friday. I did not know what it was, so after I felt like I could, I rode my ebike home. Next day, Saturday, I was admitted to the hospital for blot clot therapy. Monday, I rode my bike to work again. Now, I seriously doubt I would have done that if I had to grunt up the 15-20% grades into my subdivision or the half mile or so of 8% on the way to the subdivision.

So, yeah, I really enjoy my ebike. But it is transportation to me and not recreation, although it makes transportation more like recreation. If you ride for recreation now, you probably will still pedal even if you have an ebike. For me, it is being outside riding, not pedaling.

Yea most days trips on my ebike is the highlight or how I wind down after a day at work.

The ability to do a 20-30 mile trip and not be winded lets me get out and explore where I live in better
detail then you could in a car. The fact that you can go anywhere a bike can go and the silent factor is
also very important to me.

Personally I gave up on my mid drive because of the noise - I really like the sound of a DD motor.

Even tho I don't pedal like I would without the motor I still get out more because of it. Otherwise id probably
be sitting at home behind my pc like I have for the last few years before I built my 1st ebike.

To me it's an enabler for a multitude of reasons.

EdwardNY said:

I've put in over 20-30 hours reseraching Ebikes this week, and am going to be spending a good amount of money on my build.
I am giong high powered with 24s2p or close to 90 volts with a HS3540 motor.

I was wondering is all this time invested worth it? How fun are these bikes when they weigh much more. How do they handle going off road, assuming I keep mountain bike tires...

Click to expand...

The fun factor has got to be the unexpected side benefit of my build & use. I'll never go back to a car now, as I'm having a whole lot of fun riding my ebike around.

So something to consider - I bullt mine to stay under the 20mph rule. In Mass, that the law for remaining a bike and not entering into moped territory. That means, as a bike, I can go any where, including onto sidewalks and into our parks. A lot of my fun is taking the most direct and traffic free path to my destination. I use streets, sidewalks, parks, parking lots, anywhere. I have yet to be arrested, but confess I'm suprised I've haven't been pulled over yet, give some of my antics. Like yea, have fun.

There's something to be said for less that 20mph, light and affordable.

I've used 24s2p on the mtb trails and it's nice to climb up some steep hills and zoom on some straights. Better make sure you have some good tires and brakes with that kinda power. 3 speed switch is your friend on the trails.

But honestly I have more fun on the trails with my 12s1p 5000mah setup, which consist of an Yescom 48v500w motor and Lyen 6 fet sensorless controller. I still pedal and mostly use the power as an assist. I got around 9 mile range out of that 1p pack last time around.

Controller is in the center and the batteries are in the seat bag.

FANTASTIC love that little bike!! I am a real peddle assister and this is just how I like to see ebikes super little machine, so glad you have so much fun on it, thanks for the nice picture 8)

IMO, the typical hub motor ebike is not fun off road. *maybe* if you have really good long travel suspension.

I ride a 3-4" travel full suspension hub motor ebike on the road. It sucks when I hit bumpy pavement. It is a blast on smooth pavement, and the handling is still fun..

But make no mistake, adding all that weight DOES take away from what makes a normal light bicycle so much fun with regards to handling.

I personally don't think ebikes are nearly as good for off road as they are on road, for commuting. That is their best use by far IMO - on road, low speed routes, for transportation in high traffic cities with difficult parking.

Seriously, nothing compares to a 25lb mtn bike on normal off road trails. I don't mind getting a workout and sweating when I am out to have fun. It feels great to blast up off road hills on my pedal mtn bike.

Appreciate the comments. I drove motorcycles for only a year or two and decided that in NYC it was just too dangerous. I mostly rode in Europe where it was much safer, NYC is too crazy. Is an e-bike probably just as dangerous as a motorcycle maybe more?


Someone wrote you can't drive the HS3540 slow. Will my setup really not allow me to drive normal speeds on the bike, like to drive with non-ebike friends.
I was thinking before if it would be possible to make up for the drag of the HS3540 motor, couldn't I put just a little electric power to make up for that drag and have what would feel like a normal bike? Like a few hundred watts? Kind of like a pedal assist?

I use a little bit of power for assist on the last Critical Mass here in Houston. 21 Miles of biking and I still had 70% capacity left out of my little 12s1p 5000mah pack. Avg speed was between 12-16mph.

IMO, 24s and a HS is not for crawling along with buddies without power. 12s or max 16s is all I would consider to run on a 26" wheel with that motor amd it still needs a strong controller for 16s.

24s as a first build is a scary build. You need a strong frame with good suspension and mostly BRAKES. 45mph+ for your first ride!
Things happen real fast at any speed over 20mph for your first ride.
I don't care if you raced motorcycles or what ever, IT'S a differant animal not to be ridden at that speed.

If you really want speed start lower like 12s. That should put you over 30mph with little problem. Get a controller that can handle that and higher, and is programable. Motors are more reliable than the controllers.

I know 24s LiPo is 100v+ hot off the charger and even 100v components are being pushed at that point. Must have a pre-charge resistor and real good wiring though out. Any you hope it works the first time and every time after.

A Big E Grinn even at 20mph. It lasts a long time, be it 20 to 49mph+

I enjoy 15 to 40, it all depends on what and where you are doing!

Dan

Edward,

You said MTB but you're talking about city riding. I ride only on the roads, and some of my bikes are like amusement park rides, but you choose your own track, and no lines. When mixing with cars an ebike is far more nimble than a moto. It's really a totally different experience even with a 100lb ebike. For me riding with traffic is fun, though I don't really like the crowded congested downtown stuff. It's too slow and too little room to maneuver. Otherwise, as long as it's not raining I look for excuses to go for errands with my ebike without regard to time or traffic conditions, and my car sits unused for months at a time. Before my ebike life, I would schedule my outings around when there was traffic, because even more than I hate idiot drivers, I hate wasting my time in traffic. Idiots I can easily avoid, but traffic can be unavoidable, though I do miss cranking up some good tunes.

John

Back to basics a bit.

You controll the throttle, so you can ride the HS motor slow. The catch 22 is, at 100v your throttle will be very hard to controll slow. Build for 25 mph, and you'll have no trouble riding with freinds at 15 mph. But build for 45 mph, and riding 15mph will take a lot of concentration. There are work arounds for that problem, such as a three speed switch. So set the switch to low, then use the throttle to give you 100w, and ride along with your buds.

But I bet once you have a 45 mph ebike you never want to ride it with the switch on slow. :wink:

Bear in mind, your bike can be quite high power, yet not be inconveniently fast. Just pick a different motor. I run 72v and 3000w yet cannot go faster than 25 mph on one of my bikes. I find it funner to ride in many ways than my 45 mph e bike.

Veloman has one thing right, once headed downhill, a nice FS bike with 30 pounds of motor and battery strapped on never handles as nice as a good FS bike naked.

But when going back uphill, that 3000w is priceless. During the entire ride, a well set up FS e- bike still handles better than a cheap motorcycle. It's 150 pounds lighter.

yeah I guess if I want to ride with friends I will use another bike. Probably a pedal bike because even with a pedal bike I am always ahead of them as I have one friend who is rather slow.

I have to admit that my Ebike is for fast driving. For some reason I like speed and the way it feels, I also like the risk and thrill. Do not get me wrong I am not stupid and do not want to get hurt, but I do push it every so often. I also want to be able to fly past those "spandex" bikers that you see so often.

Does being light weight yourself help with the ebike speed?

EdwardNY said:

yeah I guess if I want to ride with friends I will use another bike. Probably a pedal bike because even with a pedal bike I am always ahead of them as I have one friend who is rather slow.

I have to admit that my Ebike is for fast driving. For some reason I like speed and the way it feels, I also like the risk and thrill. Do not get me wrong I am not stupid and do not want to get hurt, but I do push it every so often. I also want to be able to fly past those "spandex" bikers that you see so often.

Does being light weight yourself help with the ebike speed?

Click to expand...

weight isstill a factor, but not as much on an ebike. At e-bike speeds, wind is the major player.

EdwardNY said:

Someone wrote you can't drive the HS3540 slow. Will my setup really not allow me to drive normal speeds on the bike, like to drive with non-ebike friends. ...

Click to expand...

At 24s, the HS motor will be very inefficient riding 20 Mph, thus producing a lot of heat. Since your friends have only pedal power, you will overheat the motor riding with them, especially uphill. The HS at 24s, is happy above 35 Mph. I love this motor, but it can fry very quickly if you don't respect its efficiency limits. I killed 2 to learn its limits, and still taking chances with the 3rd sometimes.

Lower your voltage if you want to ride it slower, or chose a slower motor. You have to build to be efficient at the speed that you ride most of the time, that is the main inconvenience with hub motors. Everything else is great: simple and silent, a hub motor build can be made very stealth and reliable, even with high performance once you know the limits. The trick to be able to ride slow and fast performance with the same hub motor Ebike, is to build in order to be able to quickly swap the motor wheel and have both slow and fast motor wheels ready to ride. This also makes for quick servicing and flat repair, and gives best chances to have the bike running at all times.

You CAN ride a fast bike slow, it just feels painful. The controller will heat up a fair bit. The motor shouldn't unless it's hilly and you're drawing 1000watts+ at 8mph.

So it sounds like you are not talking about mountain biking. Ebiking on the road with a fast bike is awesome. Tire choice and pressure has a big impact on ride quality too. If I run 50psi my rear tire skids out on corners with slight pavement irregularities.

But it does seem odd to run such high voltage on the HS. That would fair better on an HT, as Methods would prescribe. If you give it enough amps, I would think 24s on the HS would want to go way over 50mph.