e-Power Challenge 2008 update

I'm stuck on the wrong side of the track. After all I did to prepare. I forgot to bring my battery chargers. So after my open track time I had to run the batteries home to charge. I couldn't leave them sitting all day the way they were. I rode 37.7 miles at an average speed of 30.4mph. My fastest speed was 40.4mph. I could feel the batteries getting weak so I ended my run. I'm sure I could have made the whole 40 mile distance. Right now I'm planning on racing in the 1296Wh group for a distsnce of 40mi using 1084Wh pack. I feel that the longer the race, the better chance I have. The aero dynamics of the velo will get me there.
That's it for now




Here's a picture taken with a proper camera and not a cell phone

HA!

ES' url FTW!!

Sorry for the cra**y photo. I used my cell phone to both take that picture, upload it to my flickr account and then post here to the forums. It wasn't easy. I had to use two different browsers and a lot of cut and pasting. I've learned a lot here on E-S and thought it only appropriate that my velo carried the url. This was my surprise to the many great folks here and the owner of this forum for providing it to us. Tomorrow, one of our local new stations is coming out to do a live remote feed of our event. I've been asked to display and speak about the e-assist velomobile. I'll take proper photos with my camera and not my phone tomorrow but will be unable to post them until after 7pm pacific time.

Here are the stats from my first run using five 12v 18Ah AGM batteries and a x-lyte 406 rear hubmotor. I was using a 60t chain ring and an 11-34t freewhood giving me 44-136 gear inches. I believe I was ridding using 60/15 combo. My high speed was 42mph, I have joined the 40mph club! In tribute to a former member, I have the official speed record for the Portland International Raceway as witnessed by a multitude of people taking my picture as I speed down the straightaway. At one point I was doing 35mph drawing 608w I ran a total of 37.4 miles using 682Wh 12.27Ah. At the end of my open track session my batteries were reading 59v

To the best of my knowledge I have only one serious contender. Brent B. the man behind EcoSpeed is showing up. I've spoke with him this evening. He says that he's doing 27mph in first gear. The good news is that we should be in different classes. He's using 36v 20Ah lipo pack. As long as he doesn't move up and go for a longer race I should be fine.

That's the latest. I'll post a follow up tomorrow and then the race on Monday.

Team E-S FTW!!

btw Tyler I had to look up the definition of FTW it was a new one for me.

Edited to correct chain ring misinformation. Said I was using the 42t ring but was really using the 60t

safe said:

mi7d1 said:

I rode 37.7 miles at an average speed of 30.4mph. My fastest speed was 40.4mph.

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Wow... the efficiency you have with that machine is incredible. I know from my own experience that you have achieved some impressive numbers. My bike runs about the same quantity of SLA and can hit your top and average speeds, but my range is only about 12 miles at best. (I do a lot of stops, starts and hills though)

Your range (efficiency) is roughly 3 times better than mine!

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Yea, there are a lot of things going well for me so far. With the Indy race track only having 2' of elevation gain in two miles I wasn't afraid of running a motor with higher top end and lower torque. I can't tell you how nice it is not having to start and stop. I wouldn't be able to achieve these numbers on the road. My average speed would drop to under 18mph. I did ride the velo to work one day with this motor. What I found was that the hills were easier because I could get up a faster speed and use my momentum to help carry me to the top. The lower count windings also help with less cogging. I'm able to coast both faster and farther. My velo is 98% the same as I ride it. The difference being my front wheels being covered and I removed my rear trailer hitch. The tire I'm running wouldn't fit with the hitch. I was going to remove my head lights and flags pole but decided in the end to run it as I ride it. According to kreuzotter.de there is roughly a three times difference between a mountain bike and a Quest velomobile at the numbers I plugged in.

I'm working on fairings for my genre of bikes and I do expect to improve a lot aerodynamically, but there's no debate that the recumbents combined with a full wrap around fairing are the best way to go for efficiency.

Very impressive... it gives me an idea of "what is possible" on the far edge of efficiency.

What "C" rate do you run at peak power?

I'd have to guess you are below 1C.

12.27Ah out of 18Ah would be 0.65C... very low... if that's a true average...

(this should be a lesson for all people using SLA... keep that "C" rate low)

Here are the stats after today's open track. I only ran a 48v pack today. I'm going to race in e-Cat 1 Division 3 for twenty-four miles. e-Cat 1 Div 3 allows a maximum of 860Wh pack for Lead Acid.

Edited at 10:10pm to include data for second test run. Reason for second run was that I shimmed my front struts to give more clearance in the fender well. I was rubbing the tires around the turns due to weight shift. Some events were postponed due to weather allowing more open track time.

19.5 miles..................................................21.3 miles
33.7 mph/max.............................................32.9 mph/max
27.3 mph/avg..............................................29.1 mph/ave

288.7Wh----->14.80Wh/mile.............................336.4Wh----->15.79Wh/mile
20.73Ap......................................................20.92Ap
44.46Vm.....................................................45.42Vm
982.6Wp...................................................1006.2Wp
6.02Ah.......................................................6.967Ah

50.3v resting voltage at finish of run....................no data for resting voltage at finish of run

I just met Bill today at the event. Great first ePower Challenge! I'm sure we'll see interest growing in the future.

I rode my C-lyte 5304 / Yesa "48 V" x 20 Ah / Schwinn mountain bike in the highest erg "stock" class.

There was a lot of cool equipment. So many design ideas. This year was the first for electric assist so not all classes were well represented but that's sure to change. In fact, I was the only entry in the highest energy "stock" class.

I did 40 miles around PIR (20 laps) in 1 hour, 35 minutes, 14 seconds. I don't have an onboard computer so I had to calculate (on my cell phone calculator before the race) how much I'd need to slow down to make 40 miles. My calculations were based only on aerodynamic drag and they turned out to be really close. I usually ride WFO for 25 miles so I had to slow down to make the 40 mile race distance. I probably wouldn't have started to run out of power halfway through the 2nd to last lap, if I hadn't taken a show off lap on lap 10 and also upped my speed on the fourth from the last lap but I felt lucky and deviated from my race plan. My target speed was 38 km / hour for the race (I use km for better resolution on my electronic speedometer) but it's psychologically tough to hold the speed down and I did a no-pedaling "hot lap" at 48 km / hour on lap 10, just to show off, and I pushed it up to 41 km / hour on lap 17. Halfway though lap 19 my low voltage cutoff started to cut the power, causing me to eventually slowed down to 27 km / hour for the remainder of the race and I just made it to the checkered flag with the power I had left in the Yesa pack.

My average speed works out to over 25 mph and, although I was unchallenged, it was still a race, so I pedaled pretty hard to set the mark for next year. Even so, I calculated that it only saved me 10 minutes, at the most, over not pedaling at all. Even at 25 mph, the aerodynamic drag really kills the additional effort on a mountain bike. Some of the other classes had full velos, like Bills. As you can see from Bill's reports they were quite fast, even on significantly less power than my bike.

-Cal

Here's a quick teaser photo of Cal. It's 12:15am and I have a lot of data to format and a post event blog of the race. More to follow. Should be up by the afternoon.

Why does it look like he's holding on to the brake handle his hand position doesn't look very comfortable.

Sorry, BIll. I over exposed the video of you a bit.

http://home.comcast.net/~calinb/SANY0126.MP4 (6.2 MB)
http://home.comcast.net/~calinb/SANY0127.MP4 (6.9 MB)

ngocthach1130 said:

Why does it look like he's holding on to the brake handle his hand position doesn't look very comfortable.

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Definitely not the most comfortable, but too much drag...must get lower, lower...lower...

And I shed the rain jacket flapping in the wind mid-race too.

Ur links iz broken. :?

Link said:

Ur links iz broken. :?

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Boy that was fast! Try again. They were still uploading and I had to change to upper case .MP4 (case sensitive).

Works now.

Not to get personal, but Cal, you are a big dude... over 6' maybe?

TylerDurden said:

Not to get personal, but Cal, you are a big dude... over 6' maybe?

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haha--my bike does look pretty small. I'm almost 6'2".

OK, I've had a full nights sleep. Let's see if I can put to words the results of the ePower Challenge. There were only about three weeks notice for the ePower Challenge. After trying for more than three years to get insurance for the ePower event, coverage was acquired mere weeks prior to the HPC (Human Powered Challenge) weekend. With the short notice postings were made in the online forums. From the feedback of the various forum members and several e-assist manufactures rules were formed and reformed. There were two to three other riders that didn't make the event The gantlet has been thrown down. The participants of the ePower Challenge impressed many people. I over heard one who rides a streamliner say that he was surprised at the speed and was going to build a power-assist bike to race in next year that would be faster then stink. After looking at the stats that I acquired, Brent B. of Ecospeed was the fastest bike there. He rode a Gold Rush Replica with a fairing and tail sock. According to our times had I raced him, I'd have finished second place about six minutes behind him. That wouldn't have been a disgrace because he has a very nice setup. In the eCat 1 race I was ridding with a Go-One velomobile. A design that comes from Germany. We were in different divisions so I wasn't racing against him. Still I did lap him five times. His system was to the letter of the law and me, I was only concerned with the race rules. We weren't ridding on the street so I didn't have to go by those laws. Had it been a race without e-assist Mitch would have made me look like I was standing still. He's a much better rider than I am. In eCat 2 all three divisions were represented. Though five of the six divisions were represented overall, it is my understanding that within each division there were vehicle classes. The race divisions were not open class unlimited. There was a Trek recumbent running an EcoSpeed system. The Gold Rush Replica running an EcoSpeed system and finally a mountain bike with a C-lyte 5x.

Thorough generous gifts, donations and sponsorships our $20.00 entry fee is to be refunded, we also received an Adventure Cycling water bottle and got a Pak-Lite. The Pak-Lite is an interesting little light. Basically it's a cover that snaps onto a 9v battery and has two LED bulbs and a switch. 20Hrs of light is the claim. The Pac-Lite itself also glows in the dark. I've been interested in the Pak-Lites since I first read about them years ago. A very nice and small emergency light.

I'll post the race results first and then follow up with an overview of my stats. Here's the link to the rules. http://www.ohpv.org/HPC/EventsNews.html

eCat-1 Div-1 12miles no rider
eCat-1 Div-2 18miles Mitch S.... 53:36 Go-One velomobile with BionX hubmotor 36V pack
eCat-1 Div-3 24miles Bill B........45:10 WAW velomobile with 406 c'lyte 48v AGM pack 20Ah controller

eCat-2 Div-1 20miles Bill S....... 54:12 Trek recumbent with EcoSpeed drive system
eCat-2 Div-2 30miles Brent B.... 50:30 Gold Rush Replica with an EcoSpeed drive system
eCat-2 Div-3 40miles Calin B...1:35:14 Schwinn mountain bike with c-lyte 5304 48v 20Ah pack

Now I'll post my personal stats. I ended up ridding 102miles at Portland International Raceway. My first run was with a 60v pack the rest with a pack of 49V AGM. I was trying to decide if I wanted to carry an extra battery to race in another division. I decided in the end to race with my 48v AGM pack as I didn't want to carry the extra 12lbs and I knew what my 48v system was capable of. It's my hope that these numbers will help others with their systems. My stats come from my Trek Incite 11 bike computer and my WattsUp meter. They will read left to right in order of the runs with the final stats being my race. Also of note between the two Sunday runs I went to a hardware store to purchase eight washers to shim up the body of my velomobile a quarter of an inch to give my front tires some additional clearance in the wheel wells.

Sat morning...............Sunday morning.....................Sunday afternoon................Monday race
5AGM 12v 18Ah............4 AGM 18Ah..........................4 AGM 18Ah........................4 AGM 18Ah
37.7miles...................19.5 miles............................21.3 miles..........................23.4miles
40.4 mph/max.............33.7 mph/max.......................32.9 mph/max....................34.2 mph/max
30.4 mph/avg..............27.3 mph/avg........................29.1 mph/avg.....................31.1 mph/avg

unknown....................288.7Wh--->14.80Wh/mile.........336.4Wh--->15.79Wh/mile......335.7Wh--->14.28Wh/mile
unknown....................20.73Ap................................20.92Ap...........................20.51Ap
unknown....................44.46Vm...............................45.42Vm...........................44.86Vm
unknown....................982.6Wp.............................1006.2Wp...........................969.2Wp
unknown......................6.02Ah...............................6.967Ah............................6.951Ah
unknown....................50.3V at end of run..................unknown............................50.5V at end of run

Some photos to follow in additional post. More photos can be seen at my flickr site http://www.flickr.com/photos/wmbates/sets/72157605279784351/ As of today I've only upload a select few. More should be uploaded at a later on.

(Edited on November 3rd 2008) Upon rereading this thread I noticed that the two video that Cal had posted of my velomobile were no longer on line. Cal had given me permission to post the videos and they have been on my flickr account for many months now. There are 38 photos and two videos in the ePower Challenge 2008 set

A personal Thank you! to all who participated with the forming of the event, the riders who came out to partake, the sponsors who made it possible and especially the power-assist sponsors who on short notice stepped up to the plate and donated money, prizes and gifts for the ePower Challenge. Let me not forget the rather rowdy cheering section by the start/finish line. It was wonderful to see it all. I couldn't hear a thing do to the rumbling inside of the velomobile but I did see the smiles and clapping.

Here are five photos of the event. There are more photos online of the event and I'll upload any additional photos from other people if I get permission.


eCat1 Div-2 Mitch S. Go-One velomobile w/BionX
eCat1 Div-3 Bill B. WAW vlomobile w/C'lyte 406



eCat2 Div-1 Bill S. Trek recumbent w/EcoSpeed



eCat2 Div-2 Brent B. Gold Rush Replica w/EcoSpeed



eCat2 Div-3 Calin B. Schwinn mountain bike w/C'lyte 5304



infield photo while working the corner for eCat2 races


Receiving my first place certificate from the officially sanctioned and recognized ePower Challenge Race establishing me as the current official record holder in the US for my division 8) :lol: Of course I wont let it go to my head, but still...

Finally the last of the photos of the ePower Challenge 2008 that I'm planning to post here to the forums. These are just some fun photos. There are additional photos at my flicker site. http://www.flickr.com/wmbates










Edited on Dec 7th 2010 to replace a broken photo link

Hey Cal,

It was good to have you join us at the races. Thanks for the photo and the movie clip was a surprise. Would you mind if I put them on my flickr site? Was that movie clip taken with your cell phone?

calinb said:

Sorry, BIll. I over exposed the video of you a bit.

http://home.comcast.net/~calinb/SANY0126.MP4 (6.2 MB)
http://home.comcast.net/~calinb/SANY0127.MP4 (6.9 MB)

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Excellent

mi7d1 said:

Hey Cal,

It was good to have you join us at the races. Thanks for the photo and the movie clip was a surprise. Would you mind if I put them on my flickr site? Was that movie clip taken with your cell phone?

Click to expand...

Sure, Bill. Download and use them as you please. I usually do better, but I was corner working too! The 2nd one is jerky--ironically because I turned on the digital camera shake stabilizer. It gets confused in panning shots. I took them with my Sanyo Xacti HD1 in standard def mode.

mi7d1 said:

We weren't ridding on the street so I didn't have to go by those laws.

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Except, even on the street, there aren't any ebike riding laws in Oregon. We're only subjected to the federal manufacturing laws and you and I aren't manufacturers! We're really operating in a gray area here--not that I want to change that with more laws! Of course Oregon is, perhaps, the best place in the U.S. to get license plates for a real (not dual purpose) dirt bike too--at least last I checked.

After looking at the photo you took of me, I discovered a way to add a click to my top speed on the way to work today. I reach down and hold the front of my pannier rack with my right hand (both hands is too scary). My left hand remains on the left grip with access to the brake lever but it allows me to get my chin down just in front of and above the steering stem. Whooohooo--one more km/hour! It's still not too comfortable, though. After looking at the photo, I'm also thinking that maybe I need a bent bike!

Good job man! Congrats. I've heard stories from friends who have raced on that track with motorcycles. Sounds like a crazy track for motorcycles.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but did ya'll mention that you can get dirt bikes licensed for the street in Oregon???? I got a couple of bikes that need to be registered and I got some friends in Oregon.

Cal, I beg to differ with you but as I understand it:

1.The rider must be eligible for a drivers license. If one has a suspended license or are underage then by law that person can't ride an e-assist bike
2. The electric motor must not have a power output of more than 1000watts.
3. The motor must be incapable of exceeding on level ground 20mph for e-assist bikes and 24mph for e-scooters

Ya might want to take a look at this website. http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/vehicle/pocketbike_factsheet.shtml and dig further into the Oregon Revised Statutes. Where I'm confused is the difference between an e-assist bike and an electric scooter. Both have pedals and a motor. One can only go 20mph unassisted the other is allowed 24mph unassisted.

I've uploaded the video to my flickr site, Thanks

calinb said:

mi7d1 said:

Hey Cal,

It was good to have you join us at the races. Thanks for the photo and the movie clip was a surprise. Would you mind if I put them on my flickr site? Was that movie clip taken with your cell phone?

Click to expand...

Sure, Bill. Download and use them as you please. I usually do better, but I was corner working too! The 2nd one is jerky--ironically because I turned on the digital camera shake stabilizer. It gets confused in panning shots. I took them with my Sanyo Xacti HD1 in standard def mode.

mi7d1 said:

We weren't ridding on the street so I didn't have to go by those laws.

Click to expand...

Except, even on the street, there aren't any ebike riding laws in Oregon. We're only subjected to the federal manufacturing laws and you and I aren't manufacturers! We're really operating in a gray area here--not that I want to change that with more laws! Of course Oregon is, perhaps, the best place in the U.S. to get license plates for a real (not dual purpose) dirt bike too--at least last I checked.

After looking at the photo you took of me, I discovered a way to add a click to my top speed on the way to work today. I reach down and hold the front of my pannier rack with my right hand (both hands is too scary). My left hand remains on the left grip with access to the brake lever but it allows me to get my chin down just in front of and above the steering stem. Whooohooo--one more km/hour! It's still not too comfortable, though. After looking at the photo, I'm also thinking that maybe I need a bent bike!

Click to expand...