What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
EdwardNY   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 317
Joined: Aug 30 2012 11:41pm
Location: New York

What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by EdwardNY » Oct 14 2012 8:16pm

Trying to get an idea of what ranges you guys are getting. I seem to get very bad range. With my 48volt (12s4p) (8 5000MAH 6s packs) 20 amp hour setup on a full suspension mountain bike, I am only getting 20 miles from my batteries. Although I was told I would get 40 miles. It seems pretty consistant that I get about 20 miles and my voltages are around 3.7-3.8.

I guess I drive full throttle alot and have to brake pretty often being that I live in the city. I also do not pedal very often.

I was wondering if you can list what your specs are and how you drive and how many miles you get out of your batteries.

Also, if I double my battery capacity, can I assume my range will be double even with the added battery weight?

If I use a higher voltage, 72 volts or 96 volts, will my range change?

Is it possible to get 40 miles out of my 12s4p setup without pedaling or little pedaling? How should I drive?
Last edited by EdwardNY on Oct 14 2012 11:48pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
The fingers   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6873
Joined: Mar 11 2012 11:22pm
Location: Desert Pacific Cali USA

Re: What range are you getting?

Post by The fingers » Oct 14 2012 8:32pm

Ten mile useful range, about half pedaling into the wind, and half at WOT, with power to spare at the end of the ride. About 15 mile max range, pedaling all the way till it runs out. Over a year old 36 volt 12ah SLA, a couple of overpasses are the only hills, and I pedal going up them. Charges fully in about three hours at work, plugged into a Save A Battery charger continuously when stored at home in the garage. Get 23-25mph max. speed, max pedal assisted speed about 15mph gives the most range. :)
Black Schwinn High Sierra
Blue Schwinn Cruiser 5
Blue Schwinn High Plains
Black Fiore Cruzer 5: Amped Warp Drive 26" Front DD/SLA kit
http://ghostbikes.org/
http://www.rideofsilence.org/main.php
Hebrews 9:27

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2784
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by Sunder » Oct 14 2012 9:37pm

12S 10Ah battery, all power to get started, then part throttle, part pedal. Small hills on the way. Got about 25km per charge.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
GrayKard   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 574
Joined: Jul 15 2009 8:27pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas USA

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by GrayKard » Oct 14 2012 9:45pm

My setup is a full suspension mountain bike with a DD motor on the rear. I carry 12s 6p with 1200 usable watt hours. I can go 35 miles at an average speed of 25mph no pedaling and few stops and starts.

Gary

sirlenka   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 21
Joined: Oct 09 2012 5:30pm

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by sirlenka » Oct 14 2012 9:59pm

.
Last edited by sirlenka on Dec 30 2012 6:15am, edited 1 time in total.

BikeFanatic   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 408
Joined: Nov 19 2011 10:58am
Location: Massachusetts

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by BikeFanatic » Oct 14 2012 10:17pm

By my calculations at 25 watts per mile you should get 36 miles from that pack. you should get a turnigy watt meter, I would say that
you have still a few more miles in that pack, at 3.80 volts per cell I bet you have another ten miles. But you do need a watt meter or Low voltahge alarm so you can learn about your pack without killing it.

I get 20-23 watts a mile on my mountain bike with Klnobby tires traveling avg 15-20 MPH- ten miles range = 4--4.25 AMp hours nopedal on 12 series lipo

User avatar
migueralliart   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 887
Joined: Apr 08 2011 7:32pm
Location: West Palm Beach , FL
Contact:

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by migueralliart » Oct 14 2012 10:29pm

I get about 10miles from a 12S1P 5AH lipo pack discharging under load to 3.6v.

I do some strt ups and use regen for every stop light.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13944
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by neptronix » Oct 15 2012 1:29am

There are millions of different battery voltage/amp hour and motor combinations out there, so this is all very relative.

Better check out the ebikes.ca simulator - it will give you a good idea of what you should get w/o pedaling.

http://ebikes.ca/simulator/
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

electr0n   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 421
Joined: Mar 29 2009 11:09am

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by electr0n » Oct 15 2012 6:12am

I would suggest getting some kind of watt meter too, also a 3 speed switch. You can use both to increase your range by a lot at the expense of lower power levels and performance.

My 24s 10 amp hour pack has gotten me as little as 25 maybe 30km distance when I'm flying around at 50 to 65kph without much of an effort to conserve energy. When I change modes to the 33% of the voltage using the speed switch so I'm limited to around 35kph and I limit the amps I can stretch the same battery pack out to over 70km distance, probably more. This is all with minimal pedalling.

Accelerate gradually and pedal while you're doing it and slow down a bit overall. Some kind of watt meter is really helpful to see how much power you're drawing under different power settings and conditions. Depending on how you control the throttle can make a big difference in your power consumption. You can draw several hundred more watts for just a slight increase in speed or acceleration in some conditions and you won't know unless you have some kind of amp or watt meter.

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 34964
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by dogman dan » Oct 15 2012 7:24am

I would say your range is not out of line for the kind of riding you are doing. It could be particularly that way if your motor is not a lowish speed winding. It's the stop and go, you constantly pull huge amps the first 50 feet, so take the number of stops, multiply that by 50-60 feet, and it's like you climbed a steep hill that long. 10 stops, a quarter mile of steep hill.

It would be less of an amp spike with a slower winding, or smaller wheel.

I would suspect, that a higher voltage would just have you riding harder, and though your total wh of the pack would be larger, your wh/mi would just get worse.

You should be able to easily get 40 miles from a 48v 20 ah pack. But you'd have to ride about 18 mph perhaps even 15, very few stops, and pedal out about 75w of human effort along the way.

We all go through the same process, at first we simply don't know how, or haven't developed riding style that is efficient. Getting a wattmeter or a CA will greatly reduce the time it takes you to learn to use less wh/mi. But riding around in NYC watching a panel is not such a great idea.

The simplest way to gain on your situation would be to stop giving full throttle the first 20 feet. Use half throttle, and pedal the first 20 feet. Then ramp up throttle once moving 15 mph or so. This should add a couple miles to your range or more. Next thing to do is brake hard less. Learn to anticipate stops and coast a bit more.

A bit more pedaling and more coasting before braking, and riding 25 mph or less should see you getting 30 miles from that pack. Perhaps less though, if you pracitce less than 80% dod or charge only to 4.1v. I get about 8 ah acutal ( or rather did when they were new) from my 72v 10 ah lipo pack when using wise battery dod.

My range specs vary widely depending on which bike I ride, which motor, and what kind of riding. When commuting, I have a good route with stops only about every 2 miles. Riding at least 25 mph, I get about 35 wh/mi. If I slow to below 20 mph more like 25 wh/mi. On my heavy longtail, which now has a 5304 monster motor and 48v 40 amp controller, I tend to ride 30 mph and get 45 wh/mi. On my dirt bike, 72v 40 amps, I ride always either on the throttle or on the brakes. Super harsh, and 60 wh/mi is not unusual.

mvly   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 915
Joined: May 25 2011 11:50am

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by mvly » Oct 15 2012 12:54pm

I have 51.8V 22ah lipo charged to 4.1V and I get 22 miles on WOT without pedally mostly on flats @ 30-35mph before hitting 3.6V on the cells.

I say consider yourself lucky to get those range.

40miles on that amount of energy is probably optimistic. Maybe 30 miles with some pedally at 20-25mph would be more realistic.

And higher voltage will not get you more range. Remember you still have fixed amount of energy on your battery.

iamsofunny   100 W

100 W
Posts: 178
Joined: Apr 30 2012 8:43pm

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by iamsofunny » Oct 15 2012 3:33pm

stock magic pie 3 with the 36v 20ah ping gets me 48km on flat pavement, 30km with hills everywhere
cyclone 960 watt with the same battery goes about 32km full throttle on flat, maybe 24km with hills everywhere

User avatar
Drunkskunk   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7167
Joined: Apr 14 2007 11:37am
Location: Dallas, Texas. U.S.A.

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by Drunkskunk » Oct 15 2012 3:52pm

To get 40 miles out of that pack, you would need to average 22.2 watts per mile, and that would drain the pack 100%. 22 watts per mile is tough. you might be able to hit that on flat, smooth surface with a good bike, slick tires, spandex riding suit, efficent motor, and perfectly calm wind conditions.

But in the real world, you don't want to drain your pack past 80% unless you absolutly have to, and you're going to have wind, hills, stops, rough toad, and more fassion sense than to wear lycra in public. Figure 35wa/mile, or roughly double your battey's size to go 40miles at 20mph.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
Monster Bike:http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=38667

User avatar
ddk   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1881
Joined: Nov 04 2011 5:37pm

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by ddk » Oct 15 2012 4:22pm

Drunkskunk wrote: rough toad,
ok
rough toad.jpg
rough toad.jpg (1.83 KiB) Viewed 833 times
"How can we play Hot Wheels without lighter fluid? " -Serge

User avatar
Drunkskunk   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7167
Joined: Apr 14 2007 11:37am
Location: Dallas, Texas. U.S.A.

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by Drunkskunk » Oct 15 2012 5:34pm

ddk wrote: ok
rough toad.jpg
:mrgreen:
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
Monster Bike:http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=38667

User avatar
veloman   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3040
Joined: Sep 14 2009 1:06am
Location: Austin TX

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by veloman » Oct 15 2012 6:16pm

My consumption can be as little at 12wh/mile or as high at 28wh/mile. All depends on how fast you go and how many hills, stops, wind direction, how much you pedal and so on.

I typically get 20-22 miles from 50v 8.5ah
40" mower for sale! viewtopic.php?f=9&t=95387
Mush! Mush you electrons! Push harder!

e-beach   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3096
Joined: Jan 10 2012 9:48pm
Location: Any Los Angeles area beach I am at. Or Santa Monica or possibly the south bay beaches.

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by e-beach » Oct 16 2012 12:10am

Sounds to me like you are on the throttle a lot. I can go thought Los Angeles faster then the "Rapid Buses" for about 22-25 miles depending on how often I stop for lights, stop signs and anything else. (like stupid cagers. :x ) That is with a lot of WOT ridding. I can go as much as 40 miles on the flats if I go 6 mph the whole way.

I am running a 15ah Headway pack with my Yescomusa 800w motor.

As Dogman suggested, I don't bury my thumb throttle off the line every time I want to go. I ease into it and once up to speed I go WOT if I can.

BTW, what are your individual cells reading after you burn 16ah or so?
Favorite Quote: "This is L.A., sugar. There is no 'over the top." --- Chris Erskine

Current build: Liahona w/ cheap front suspension and suspension seat post. Yescomusa 36v 800w generic front hub motor. 15ah Headway triangle mounted pack. Tronsung 30 amp,

Previous Build:1992 Trek Antelope 800 - Bone Crusher (no suspension) - Yescomusa 800 watt 36 volt front wheel kit. Don't do it! Get suspension!!!

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 34964
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by dogman dan » Oct 16 2012 6:45am

When the rains come, those spadefoot toads come out to eat bugs under the streetlights. After a while, they build up between the knobbies on your tires and it really cuts into your wh/mi.

So you have to run a slicker tire in July and August around here.

Suppressivefire   10 W

10 W
Posts: 69
Joined: Sep 05 2012 9:47pm
Location: West Seneca NY

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by Suppressivefire » Oct 24 2012 12:22pm

Ed with 12s2p I've been getting 15-20 miles with mostly full throttle and a lot of off road and hills very little pedaling.

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 34964
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by dogman dan » Oct 24 2012 1:07pm

That's pretty impressive. I'll assume that's not with a 40 amp controller? Damn good range just for street riding 25 mph. 4 5000 mha 6s packs is still only about 450 wh. 25 wh/mi dirt riding? I tend to run 40-60 wh/mi dirt riding.

What speed would you say you do these rides at?

User avatar
nonlineartom   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 410
Joined: Apr 30 2011 3:44pm
Location: Bradford, UK

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by nonlineartom » Oct 24 2012 2:06pm

12s 2p Turnigy Lipo (44V 10ah) I can get 20 miles absolute minimum out of it with minimal pedalling

10T mac motor, 35A limit, 25mph top speed,

lots of stop starts, no regen

Done 30miles before by setting lower current limit and pedalling more.
Commuter bike: 10T MAC Schwinn Panther Beach Cruiser on 12S LiPo, super stealth hill eater
Forest trail eater: Crystalyte 5306 KMX Viper with 24" wheel. 100A controller 18S LiPo
Pocket rocket: 8T MAC e-BMX 18s LiPo. Missile for testing to destruction
Summer ride: 8T MAC Kona Joe MTB / chopper / beach cruiser hybrid bike. 24" wheels and a lot lot of style.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Respect and fear the ancient god LiPo and pray he is merciful.

User avatar
hjns   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1273
Joined: Aug 20 2011 11:05pm
Location: Basel, Switzerland

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by hjns » Oct 24 2012 2:16pm

Mine are bad as well, but by design.

20S 84V HOC, 13.5Ah (999Wh pack) lipo. At 30Wh/km (calibrated CA) this gives me a calculated range of 33.3 km. However, I am always glad to get to 20km before LVC comes in (3.60V cell level) at 72V.
Henk


All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence

EdwardNY   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 317
Joined: Aug 30 2012 11:41pm
Location: New York

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by EdwardNY » Oct 26 2012 5:47pm

I am thinking part of the problem is I am not using all my available battery capacity.

Do you guys bring your batteries down to 3.6volts under load and then stop there?

I should with a 5000MAH pack be using about 4000MAH of it? Because when I charge the pack I am usually only putting about 2500-3000MAH into the packs.

This would mean on a 12s setup I can bring my battery all the way down to 43.2volts under load?

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13771
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by John in CR » Oct 26 2012 7:51pm

Edward,

While 40mi is probably optimistic for an 800+wh battery, you've only gotten to about 50% DOD.

User avatar
wesnewell   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7168
Joined: Jan 31 2011 6:25pm
Location: Wylie, TX, USA

Re: What ranges are you getting? Mine are bad.

Post by wesnewell » Oct 27 2012 12:32am

The controller has a 42V LVC. Even if you go all the way to that under load, it will still leave you above the empty level of the pack. 43V under load is conservative enough. That would leave cell voltage above 3.60V no load. Just make sure your volt meter is accurate, or take it's inaccuracies into account. Mine reads about 1.5 high at 100V
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
My videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0KW4U ... _G2wQhptMg

Post Reply