MAC vs Bafang

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
teddy_kgb   100 µW

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MAC vs Bafang

Post by teddy_kgb » Nov 07 2012 8:49pm

I've been researching this board trying to decide on the right geared hub motor and was set to get a Mac when I came across the Bafang from bmsbattery. The one I am referring to is the 500w 48v rear. The Bafang is much cheaper so I assume the Mac is better. Is the Mac that much better? What are the big differences?

Thanks.
Ted

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by neptronix » Nov 07 2012 9:55pm

The MAC/BMC motors can push a bit more power, and you can actually get parts for them if they break.
The bafangs could be better for smaller wheels ( 20" or smaller ) / high voltage due to their lower pole count. In my 2 years here though, i've never seen anyone selling parts for them.

And i would strongly recommend staying away from bmsbattery as a vendor. They don't have the best track record.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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TheBeastie   10 MW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by TheBeastie » Nov 08 2012 12:00am

I was trying to choose between a bafang from Bmsbattery and a MAC from emmissionsfree 3months ago.
In the end I went mad from trying to make up my mind and just ordered a whole kit plus battery that i knew would fit in my frame late at night from bmsbattery so I was all locked in.
I was also quite budget minded too as this was my first build and didn't want to spend a lot of money for something I didn't really know a lot about.

I have no doubt I would of got a higher quality kit if I went down the MAC route.
The kit from Bmsbattery was OK but still a bit ordinary as a few spokes were loose in the rim out of the box, the thing about BMSbattery is they make it simple to make up your mind all online and pay in one go. My biggest fear would be something would be wrong with the battery as I seen a fair few posts on es with people replacing cells in there battery etc (but not necessarily from bmsbattery) which I really didn't like the idea of having to deal with for my first build.
But all up my gut feel from my battery is that it's been the most solid part of my order.
People have been talking about greenbikekit.com as a very similar/better? service then Bmsbattery so you might want to consider them.
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Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by neptronix » Nov 08 2012 12:31am

That's interesting, i never heard of greenbikekit. And they actually sell bafang parts! that's good!
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

teddy_kgb   100 µW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by teddy_kgb » Nov 08 2012 12:42am

Thanks for the replies. Beastie, that is my situation exactly, this is my first build and I don't have a lot to spend on it, and not having even ridden an electric bike I don't want to invest a lot into it for my first setup. I don't mind if I get the cheaper kit and it is a little under powered or not as long lasting, because I can always upgrade down the road when I am more clear about what I want out of my bike. But what I'm afraid of is buying a cheaper kit that will cause me problems (or fail/break) requiring me to put more money into it than if I went with the more expensive kit in the first place. It sounds like what your saying is with the Bafang and the headway batteries that you do not regret the purchase?

How is the Bafang in terms of power, especially up hills? Does it feel like a solid product for the price?

Thanks.

sacko   10 kW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by sacko » Nov 08 2012 3:09am

You can now get parts for the Bafang motors. There was a thread on here about it :)

d8veh   100 GW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by d8veh » Nov 08 2012 4:37am

sacko wrote:You can now get parts for the Bafang motors. There was a thread on here about it :)
Not only can you get spares, but they're very cheap:
$4 for a gearwheel
$25 for a complete clutch with gears
$4 for a side-plate with free-wheel thread
http://www.greenbikekit.com/index.php/e ... otor.html/
You can also get the Bafang CST, which is the same as the BPM, but it accepts a cassette gear-set, so you can get some decent gearing.

miuan   10 kW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by miuan » Nov 08 2012 4:52am

I posted the Bafang spares thread. The stuff is really cheap and I've already ordered some. I suggest that everyone orders a spare clutch anssembly and a side cover, as the freewheel threads are prone to break off the covers on some Bafangs. But, the covers are hard to remove if you don't have the tool (which sadly cost me 50 eur).

ty cohen   100 W

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by ty cohen » Nov 08 2012 4:32pm

I too have been struggling with either BMS or Mac, as the price difference is nearly 2:1. I am currenty using a company ebike that uses a bafang motor (not from BMS), and it has had no problems thus far. I also went to a dealer who sells complete bikes that aslo used bafangs (stamped 8fun on the motor) and could mod the controller to do 42+kph on a 48v batt.

I can only use the company bike so much and it's about time I get my own bike, but trying to decide Mac vs BMS is one of the most frustrating things, as the price difference is so much, something's gotta be lacking with BMSbattery.

alfantastic   10 kW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by alfantastic » Nov 08 2012 5:27pm

ty cohen wrote:
I can only use the company bike so much and it's about time I get my own bike, but trying to decide Mac vs BMS is one of the most frustrating things, as the price difference is so much, something's gotta be lacking with BMSbattery.
Yeah... customer service :wink:

teddy_kgb   100 µW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by teddy_kgb » Nov 08 2012 5:51pm

Does the Bafang 48v500W offer regen? I was reading a post by Dogman reviewing the Fusion motor (which looks and sounds just like the Bafang) and he said the Fusion was non-free spinning and therefore offered regen. And if so does the regen kick in when you go past the no load speed?

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by neptronix » Nov 08 2012 5:52pm

alfantastic wrote:
ty cohen wrote:
I can only use the company bike so much and it's about time I get my own bike, but trying to decide Mac vs BMS is one of the most frustrating things, as the price difference is so much, something's gotta be lacking with BMSbattery.
Yeah... customer service :wink:
yyyuuuupppp. BMSBattery has always had a really bad reputation for service.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

d8veh   100 GW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by d8veh » Nov 08 2012 7:57pm

teddy_kgb wrote:Does the Bafang 48v500W offer regen? I was reading a post by Dogman reviewing the Fusion motor (which looks and sounds just like the Bafang) and he said the Fusion was non-free spinning and therefore offered regen. And if so does the regen kick in when you go past the no load speed?
Neither the MACs or Bafangs can do regen because they have a one--way clutch in them.

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veloman   1 GW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by veloman » Nov 08 2012 11:27pm

Mac is a good choice. I don't much about Bafang other than it's a huge pain in the ass to get the side cover off without buying the special tool. BMC seems too expensive when the Mac is essentially the same thing for half the money. I have thousands of miles on my Macs without problems.

I got a q100 geared motor from bmsbattery and didn't have any problems and it didn't take too long.
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TheBeastie   10 MW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by TheBeastie » Nov 08 2012 11:47pm

teddy_kgb wrote:
How is the Bafang in terms of power, especially up hills? Does it feel like a solid product for the price?

Thanks.
I have never ridden a DD ebike up a decent hill but from what I have seen/heard is that they do struggle with it unless you give them serious power.

My Bafang 500w (GD) eats hills, I think it's fair to say you won't find a hill on any standard road it wont go up, and barely even slow down for.
I don't regret the purchase (as far as this type of ebike technology is concerned) I did make a deliberate decision not to be able to buy a motor that goes too fast which is what you get when you get a geared drive motor.
The other part is I never owned anything else. I am building a second ebike now out of my other existing bike and I have been finding my self trying to weigh up getting a different motor just to see what it's like.

When you first get into ebiking and ride on the road you will find a demon inside you that you have to fight :twisted: .

Ebikes gain that extra weight that turns into a lot of rolling momentum that you dont like to waste.
It's one that makes you want to run through recently turned red lights and do slightly dangerous things to save battery power, it's important to fight those demons. Well at least for the first 5 battery charges, so you can stop at that red light and see that speeding vehicle you didn't see that would of been a close call had you run through.

I seen its a problem with people in Hybrids/Ecars as well they do silly things to save on battery.
Last edited by TheBeastie on Nov 10 2012 1:24am, edited 1 time in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

alfantastic   10 kW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by alfantastic » Nov 09 2012 8:42am

My build:
MAC 10T @ 48v, 9 fet 30A controller, CA-DP.
27mph top speed, pulls like a train up most hills.

Ten reasons why you should buy a MAC 500w kit from Cellman.
Not in any particular order:

1. Excellent customer service.
2. Solid wheel build with true rim (really helps if using on rim brake bike)
3. Infineon controller direct CA compatible (you can learn so much about your bike set-up using a CA)
4. Paul (Cellman) is a genuinly nice guy and will do his utmost to advise and help.
5. Kit fits a standard bike with no problems and has been obviously very well designed.
6. 3-speed switch is very useful (nice, progressive throttle control at lower speeds)
7. Easily replaceable parts.
8. Programmable controller.
9. Option of upgraded phase wires and temp sensor if required.
10. Excellent customer service :D

bustedknuckles   10 mW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by bustedknuckles » Nov 09 2012 10:32am

I just bought one of Paul's Mac kits and I can second allfantastic's list. For a first build, you can't beat a cellman kit. Great support and you can tell he checks everything he sends out.
That being said, if you're in the states, I imagine you can find the same quality service with cheaper shipping. I paid the shipping from china because I wanted the a123 battery that paul builds.

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TheBeastie   10 MW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by TheBeastie » Nov 09 2012 11:18am

I just went for a mapmyride ride with my new lipo battery.
It's a 12s 1p build, in case I didn't get that right it's 4x 6s 5Ah turnigy battery build to be a 48v equivalent battery to run on my 36v controller on my Bafang 500w motor build.

I guess it's fair to say what you see as peak speed on the chart is as fast as it will go on standard voltage. With 26" wheels on a 95kilo person. Don't take average speed as I had to stop at street lights etc.
http://www.mapmyride.com/workout/202262825
Another one.. http://www.mapmyride.com/view_workout?w=202576215

Yeah the biggest complaint I can have from my BMSbattery build is the wheel was quite untrue from the unboxing with a few loose spokes etc seems like it was chucked together.
Also when I changed my order from Bmsbattery from Li-MgNiCo cells to Life cells because they were out of stock which ended up making the battery $50 cheaper, they said they would refund the difference but when it came to shipping time they sent a surprise emailing saying shipping was going to be $50 more expensive so they will just take that remaining money.
So yeah BMSbattery aren't angles.
Last edited by TheBeastie on Nov 10 2012 11:42am, edited 5 times in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

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CogHog   100 W

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by CogHog » Nov 09 2012 11:19am

May I ask what the shipping from China was for your kit? I see ebikessf.com has the 9T MAC and it would be less on shipping and just buy the controller from cellman. I think the only difference between the MAC and BMC is;

The V4 clutch, noiseless, You can only hear the freewheel clicking as the bike is moving, blue composite gears. not as hard as the newer green ones in the latest MAC version.

Better laminations. No complaints of the heating problems in the past. Ask Ilia Brook at ebikessf.

Made in India at the factory owend by BMC. MAC of course is the Chinese copy from 10 years past.

I believe I can get some of these sets of Blue gear clutches from BMC. Someone should try one of these to see if you can put it in your MAC. I have one new one just sitting here. If anyone is interested I can list it on ebay for $50 (auction) and you can return it if it does not fit.

I promise, you will be impressed with the sound. I ran a green gear BMC hub and felt embarrased going down the street because of the noise.
Tomac Freeride 2001, BMC V2T front, 50a controller, 51v Turnigy 20c 14s2p. Hookworms 2.5x26.
90's Specialized, BMC V2T rear, 50a controller, 14s2p Turnigy 20c (58v top), Kenda 1.95x26, Indian Board Track style.

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by neptronix » Nov 09 2012 11:37am

Are you sure that the V4 is noiseless? the majority of the motor noise comes from the stator, and all electric motors make noise, no matter how many times a vendor claims that they're whisper quiet. I've had people notice my DDs and my geared motors.

No overheating problems? at what power level? any motor can overheat. ilia himself said that the V4 wasn't more efficient:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=33787

So where's this claim come from?

MAC is a 10 year old copy? you know that these hub motors haven't been around for that long right? did you know that MAC and BMC were the same company for a very long time? And that the MAC motor has had continual improvements over the years? the only difference between the two motors is the gears now.

Your offer for the blue gears is generous, but i find my modern gray gears to be OK sound wise. I have the older stator and have heard from one person that the newer stator in the MAC is louder. Maybe someone else can give it a shot.
CogHog wrote:May I ask what the shipping from China was for your kit? I see ebikessf.com has the 9T MAC and it would be less on shipping and just buy the controller from cellman. I think the only difference between the MAC and BMC is;

The V4 clutch, noiseless, You can only hear the freewheel clicking as the bike is moving, blue composite gears. not as hard as the newer green ones in the latest MAC version.

Better laminations. No complaints of the heating problems in the past. Ask Ilia Brook at ebikessf.

Made in India at the factory owend by BMC. MAC of course is the Chinese copy from 10 years past.

I believe I can get some of these sets of Blue gear clutches from BMC. Someone should try one of these to see if you can put it in your MAC. I have one new one just sitting here. If anyone is interested I can list it on ebay for $50 (auction) and you can return it if it does not fit.

I promise, you will be impressed with the sound. I ran a green gear BMC hub and felt embarrased going down the street because of the noise.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

tilopa   1 mW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by tilopa » Nov 09 2012 1:01pm

CogHog wrote:I see ebikessf.com has the 9T MAC and it would be less on shipping and just buy the controller from cellman.
ebikessf.com is out of all their MAC motors and he said it would be like 2 months before he got another shipment of them. On the other hand he does have the new V4 BMC motors in stock and his price is about the same as cellman's price on a MAC because of the shipping cost from China. So, I'm considering getting one of his BMC's, yet it is hard to pass up the price (which is less than half) of the Bafang.

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CogHog   100 W

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by CogHog » Nov 09 2012 2:16pm

Wow, you have got to be kidding on the shipping price from China. I see cellman has a new website http://em3ev.com/store/ but tried to check out a motor just to see the shipping price but they want you to sign up. I have two V4-3T's and two V4-3C's rear motors and some 50 amp controllers for promo sales. I hope to start up my own web site for this area half way between LA and San Diego. PM me if you are interested. The controllers need the CA mod because these are part of the remaining stock at BMC. I send them to Ilia and he charges $50 to do the mod. DIY is when I get a chance to order connectors and diodes. I have 100% feedback at ebay if you want me to list them there. These motors are made in India at the BMC factory. They come with a twist throttle.
Attachments
hub motors.jpg
hub motors.jpg (90.03 KiB) Viewed 4962 times
50 amp.jpg
50 amp.jpg (103.22 KiB) Viewed 4962 times
controller-mod.png
controller-mod.png (80.45 KiB) Viewed 4962 times
Tomac Freeride 2001, BMC V2T front, 50a controller, 51v Turnigy 20c 14s2p. Hookworms 2.5x26.
90's Specialized, BMC V2T rear, 50a controller, 14s2p Turnigy 20c (58v top), Kenda 1.95x26, Indian Board Track style.

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by neptronix » Nov 09 2012 2:40pm

you should be able to checkout as a guest. Looks like shipping a MAC 500w kit is about $89 to ship via SAL ( takes a week or two ), or $42 via surface mail ( takes months )
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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brumbrum   100 kW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by brumbrum » Nov 09 2012 4:08pm

Just to refresh, i ordered my bpm 500 from greenbikekit for delivery to the UK. All good with communication from the seller during the process. Arrived in around 5 days once posted. The Fedex shipping was very reasonable, though i suggest that you just pay the economy price i paid for an express service but it was still sent economy shipping. Customs value on the package was also low. Good service that i would use again.

I have the 216rpm rear motor. It is slow! 15mph with a 48v pack. The amps from the controller adds torque which is what i wanted for off roading, commuting is a little frustrating. I dont really feel any more strength going up a steep hill than other faster rpm motors i have used.

tilopa   1 mW

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Re: MAC vs Bafang

Post by tilopa » Nov 09 2012 9:14pm

tilopa wrote: ebikessf.com is out of all their MAC motors and he said it would be like 2 months before he got another shipment of them.
My mistake, he does have the 6T MAC Rear in stock.

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