Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video added!

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
patrickza   1 kW

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Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video added!

Post by patrickza » Nov 14 2012 7:57am

I've had my borg frame for over a year now, so there's no excuse as to why it took me so long to get started. Anyway here was the shopping list:
-The borg frame
-Cromotor in a 24 inch wheel
-Rockshox boxer race. Wanted white but only had black available
-Shlumpf high speed drive
-Lyen 18 fet 4110 controller
-Headways
-Szsmartec BMS. Wanted a headway one but they no longer make one.
-BB7 brakes. I prefer them to hydros

Ok then onto the planning stage. I wanted at least the range and power of the lifepo4 powered stealth, so I had planned on a 48 cell headway pack with 24 going into front area, 24 in lower area and the rest of the electronics in the rear compartment, but alas the borg case wasn't 12.5cm wide as I needed, so I had to use the staggered 3 cell connector blocks instead of the inline 2 cells. This means 48 wouldn't fit as I'd planned. Clearly some cells would have to go in the rear compartment.

According to HAL I should manage 23 + 23 + 2 in the compartments, but that meant splitting a parallel pair, and to be honest I couldn't see how you'd get 23 in the lower section. So 22 + 22 it was going to be, then 4 in the rear. Now putting 4 cells in the rear means that either the BMS or the controller won't fit. I thought it a better idea to keep the controller outside so it would be cooler. I may bump it up from 60A to 100A at some stage, so all the cooling I can get may be helpful.

Making this call freed up some additional space in the the trunk, and I always feel that spaced should be used, so after finding out that the BMS I'd ordered went up to 26s, and that I could easily put another four cells in the back I quickly changed my order.

So, so far I've built all the battery packs and have them on the frame. Now to do all the connections and install the other electronics. I'm probably about half way. Hopefully I get the BMS connections soldered nicely, then build a precharge circiut, figure out the controller and motor combinations (should be colour for colour according to what I've read) and figure out which red wire turns the controller on (http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =2&t=45456).

Here's what it looks like now, please ignore the untidyness and duct tape, I'll work on looks later:
Image

That's a lot of blue, the front cover on the left may be a tight squeeze, but I'll hopefully make it work. Can't wait to feel the power of the cro and enjoy the range offered by the borg. 52 headways is 1664 wh of power. I'm hoping to do the 40km to my moms place in under an hour, and using less than 80% of my pack. In a crazy moment I thought of going 3p and building a box in front of the lower battery tray for another 24 cells, but sanity prevailed. For now :)

So far I think this is an awesome frame. I like range and this one really lets you pack in the cells. I actually think there's room for more. There's miles of space between the front wheel and the frame, and I'd like to see it filled one day. For no particular reason, just because it can. Also without too many changes this frame would be able to handle 32 of the 20AH A123 pouches. Now that would be an amazing bike. Anyway, love to hear some comments, and advice for the rest of the build would be highly appreciated too.
Last edited by patrickza on Dec 26 2012 4:36pm, edited 2 times in total.
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold...

Post by NeilP » Nov 14 2012 3:27pm

Umm I am glad i went LiPo :P
:) Only Irish coffee provides in a glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and fat :)

patrickza   1 kW

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold...

Post by patrickza » Nov 22 2012 2:48am

I'd consider lipo in future, but for now I wanted the simple plug and playness of the lifepo. Bike is running, doesn't look too good, I need to make some covers to hide piles of plugs and untidy wiring, but it's goes like a demon!

Image
Image
Image
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold...

Post by patrickza » Nov 22 2012 2:51am

Oh, and the new headways seem far better than my original batch. At 80A (4C) I only dropped to about 3.1v per cell. On the older cells I'd drop to under 3v at 4c, not sure exactly how low I'll have to test to compare.
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold...

Post by ohzee » Nov 22 2012 3:15am

Looking good I like the bike. Love to see some video.

How far are you able to go on that setup ? looks like quite some capacity.

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold...

Post by patrickza » Nov 22 2012 4:31am

ohzee wrote:Looking good I like the bike. Love to see some video.

How far are you able to go on that setup ? looks like quite some capacity.
I'll be fitting a keychain cam to my helmet this weekend. So far the furthest I've gone is 32km. I used just over 6AH there using the shunt value lyen gave me, so it looks like the magic ton (100km or 60mi) is possible. That would run it down to 90% discharge so I wouldn't do that too often. Testing will tell I guess. Fortunately my longest normal trip is 40km each way, and I'd likely take the charger along for the return trip so I can use more speed.

1664 wh is a lot of lifepo4 to be carrying. It also means running 1.5kw of power is under 1C!
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by patrickza » Nov 24 2012 5:10am

Did a video with my helmet cam:


Speeds are accurate, I was tracking every 15 seconds with my blackberry and you can see the route here. Holding the mouse over the green trackpoints will give you instantaneous speed, altitude etc: http://www.berrylocate.com/trip.php?tripid=43

Stats for the trip:
Max speed 87.1km/h Hello 50mph club :)
av 55.8km/h even though I was using cruise control for some time (when showing you my right hand.
14.22 km
564wh
39.7wh/km
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Cicada   10 W

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by Cicada » Nov 25 2012 4:41pm

Nice video, almost 90 kph, you should be proud, mine is not going that fast.
"Try again. Fail again. Fail better"
Greyborg Warp 80v A123, 18fet controller, Greyborg Hubzilla
http://evlab.co.nz/2012/greyborg-build-awesome/
http://vimeo.com/51900545

patrickza   1 kW

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by patrickza » Nov 25 2012 8:32pm

Cicada wrote:Nice video, almost 90 kph, you should be proud, mine is not going that fast.
Thanks! What motor are you running?

Here's another video with a little more traffic interaction:
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by ohzee » Nov 25 2012 9:14pm

awesome video , but that wind noise is brutal.

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Cicada   10 W

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by Cicada » Nov 25 2012 10:47pm

I run a cromotor powered 80 volts, 26' wheels, can barely hit 70 kmh, but maybe my CA needs a better calib as well.
70kph is not too far from ebike.ca simulator data though...
"Try again. Fail again. Fail better"
Greyborg Warp 80v A123, 18fet controller, Greyborg Hubzilla
http://evlab.co.nz/2012/greyborg-build-awesome/
http://vimeo.com/51900545

patrickza   1 kW

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by patrickza » Nov 26 2012 6:00am

Cicada wrote:I run a cromotor powered 80 volts, 26' wheels, can barely hit 70 kmh, but maybe my CA needs a better calib as well.
70kph is not too far from ebike.ca simulator data though...
That is weird, I'm running 24" with 2.5 hookworms on it. I wasn't expecting so much speed, but the GPS confirmed it. I wonder if there could be two version of this motor? Are you running out of power to get faster, or is the motor near it's peak rpm?
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

patrickza   1 kW

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by patrickza » Nov 26 2012 7:16am

Other change I made was to beef up the dropouts a tad after hearing of one twist. had a friend double up the width and put a clamp on the end. No space left for nuts anymore, but I don't think that'll be a problem!

Image

Image
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by Cicada » Nov 26 2012 7:05pm

Wow that's beefy!
Yeah it looks like my juice is over around 70kmh but again I have a lot of battery sag and the speed on the CA could be wrong,
do not trust my data for now, I will let you know when it's all double checked.
"Try again. Fail again. Fail better"
Greyborg Warp 80v A123, 18fet controller, Greyborg Hubzilla
http://evlab.co.nz/2012/greyborg-build-awesome/
http://vimeo.com/51900545

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by Haste » Nov 28 2012 11:03pm

how many volts?
1997 Marin Hill Hawk. Bafang BPM 2 10T. KU123 30 amp controller. 12s LiPo.=32mph

patrickza   1 kW

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by patrickza » Nov 29 2012 1:46am

Haste wrote:how many volts?
83.2v
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by Camel » Dec 26 2012 1:58pm

Hi Patrick

Congrats on the BORG! - Yeah that certainly qualifies you for the FASTEST E-BIKE in Africa.

I'm still puttering around on my dismal 250w (36v 10Ah 2c) - :oops:

How's the Kona doing? Drop us a line if you have a mo - Would love to see the BORG Beast with my own eyes.

Safe riding - Cheers Mark
Trying to to get a E-Bike on the road.

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by patrickza » Dec 26 2012 3:34pm

Camel wrote:Hi Patrick

Congrats on the BORG! - Yeah that certainly qualifies you for the FASTEST E-BIKE in Africa.

I'm still puttering around on my dismal 250w (36v 10Ah 2c) - :oops:

How's the Kona doing? Drop us a line if you have a mo - Would love to see the BORG Beast with my own eyes.

Safe riding - Cheers Mark
Just sent you my number in a PM. Give me a shout, I'm in Joburg for the holidays.
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by patrickza » May 27 2013 2:40am

1000 miles up. They add up quickly when I do 50 miles days quite often.

Grin factor is still huge! :D
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

patrickza   1 kW

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by patrickza » Aug 12 2013 8:40am

So that's 2000km on the clock
Image

I love this thing, it's been absolutely perfect for the last 2000km. The only thing to have broken is my right trouser leg which got torn by the chain. Now I use the sexy tucked into sock style :)

In rush hour I'm the fastest thing across town. Bar nothing. Far lighter and more agile than a motorbike, also narrower and shorter so I can zip into gaps between the cars faster than most big bikes.

Apart from the joy rides, I use the bike twice a week to go see my boy, a 34km round trip. That uses about 40% of my pack. Once a month I go to the folks in the next town +- 45km away. It takes me less than an hour and uses about 65% of the pack, so I charge while I'm there, thanks for the electricity mom.

The one issue is when I'm in a hurry I kind of have to ignore people who have a million questions to ask. Can't tell you how often I've had a guy at the lights asking 20 questions while the people behind him get all frustrated. It's better if I'm on the go as I just get thumbs up, wide eyes and disbelief from the other road users. I even had a harley give me a thumb up once he caught up to me ;) never got that on my yamaha.
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by low_energy » May 29 2014 6:15am

what is the mile/km range on one charge travel.how far can it go?
Your bike rocks! cheers :)

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by patrickza » May 29 2014 7:29am

low_energy wrote:what is the mile/km range on one charge travel.how far can it go?
Your bike rocks! cheers :)
Thanks :)

As always it depends. My usual commute is 46km, and after that I've used up about 12AH out of my 20AH as it's quite hilly. I imagine going those speeds I'd have a range of about 75km, but I don't like running the bike past 16AH, which means I use 60km as a usable range. If I'm going slower 100km should be possible, and if I totally nail it I'd only do 30-40km before needing a charge.
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by striker54 » Oct 31 2014 2:19am

Hi Patrick

I'm planning buying the greyborg frame but, as you i want to use a lot of headways. Could you please answer some questions?

The canopies of your bike are the normal ones or the wide ones?

With your battery configuration what is the maximum width that you have?

Thanks.
Best Regards.

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by patrickza » Oct 31 2014 3:27am

Hey Striker. I don't know the exact width, all I know is that I couldn't use the normal closing mechanism of the canopy, it would have torn loose. Instead I have three very sturdy velcro straps holding it together. My cells are staggered, so you could work out the width. There's no way I'd have three cells alongside each other under that canopy. Not even close.

Great frame though, feels very stable, even at 85km/h.
Greyb.org, Cromotor, Headway 83.2v 20AH, Lyen 18 fet: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45514
Kona Kahuna, x5305, Headway 76.8v 10AH, Crystalyte 72v48A: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=10256
Bladez Scoot, 450W motor putting out 3kW, Headway 38.4v 10AH, Lyen special controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=25872

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Re: Bike #2: How many Headways can a Greyborg hold. Video ad

Post by MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER » Nov 02 2014 8:19am

Looking well man!

What type of cells are those?

Thank you 8)
Nothing is perfect until I touch it...

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