NEWBIE IN NEED OF ADVICE FOR FIRST BUILD

Hi everyone, I am starting to attempt my first electric bike build and was hoping to get some advice on the best set up.

I have been doing some research and have found a lot of hub motor kits and a few mid drive kits.

I am on a fairly tight budget, being a student so price is a factor. That being said i have no problem paying more if the quality is that much better. I am replacing a gas scooter so i will be saving roughly $500 per year in insurance and gas. I have seen some very nice hub motor kits on aliexpress. They also have some nice 500w and 750w planetary drive motors with a 6:1 drive reduction.

I am very interested in the gngelectric 48v, 450w brushless mid drive kit. It looks like a good placement for the weight and seems to be decent quality.

Does anyone have any experience with the gngelectric system?

Is there any major advantage to the mid drive over hub drive or visa verse?

I am also very into RC and could probably buy a nice system but would need a way to attach it to the drive of the bike. Is there a kit on the market for this?

I really know nothing about this stuff and have no idea where a good place to buy this stuff is or if it even matters being as it is mostly made in China anyways.


KevinThanks very much for any advice.

Kevin

I should probably add that I plan to use the bike all year round in Toronto. Not sure if that matters but it should be able to handle cold and rain.

Thanks again.

Kev

Welcome to ES. I'm still relatively new here as well. I'd look at all the various builds here. There may be ideas you can steal. As they say, "The most sincerest form of flattery is imitation."

Dive down into the threads deep enough and I'm pretty certain there is a person just like you in the same predicament.

I'll start the idea flowing: How about a walmart beachcruiser style bike with balloon tires and steel frame? Pricepoint will be hard to beat. Comfort level is nice too as it's upright style. Then buy a 36V/48V 1000w direct drive rear hub kit from ebay (you may be able to find one locally too). All kinds to choose from. Here's one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Cycling-Hub-Conversion-/370646092582?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564c3a8b26 Since your already RC experienced, I'll let you figure out the battery stuff on your own (that's my way of saying, I"m not qualified to tell you what you need ). If it's a really cold climate you have, you may need to prioritize "capacity" so you don't experience voltage sag near the end of your ride. When the weather warms up, the performance should perk up for a nice bonus. :wink:

Not sure about the GNG kit. I'm sure you're reading through them from the sidelines (like many of us) in anticipation of what the final verdict is. Those guys are engineers and tinkerers with the tools to make it happen. Not sure if it's the direction for you, especially for a 1st build. Who knows, the kit may be very dependable when used at the recommended settings. Since it's a midmotor, you get many benefits that other motor positions can't give: efficiency, usable torque, versatility (you don't have to mess with your existing gear setup and you can ride the bike normally without noticeable drag). Personally, I'm not a big fan of the belt (especially when it gets wet). Speaking of wet, the middrive is numero uno target for your front tire spray.

reefsider said:

advice on the best set up.

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Entirely depends on what you want it to do, speed you want it to do it at, and terrain you want it to do it on, as well as for how long at a time.

Does anyone have any experience with the gngelectric system?

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You might want to poke around at the various threads about it here on ES. Quite a lot of info there.

Is there any major advantage to the mid drive over hub drive or visa verse?

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You can change gears for better efficiency on various terrain.

I am also very into RC and could probably buy a nice system but would need a way to attach it to the drive of the bike. Is there a kit on the market for this?

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There are at least two ways to do it as a friction drive; see the for sale section for Kepler's drive and Adrian's. Then there areRecumpence's various versions of drives to belt or chain drive to the wheel.

Lots of support here, take your time choosing with good advice and recommendations from the pros. You will do well.
Also, try and find a Local Bike Shop (LBS) that is electric friendly where you can get parts and advice face to face if possible. Maybe some members in your area can steer you towards one. Some bike shops don't have a clue or are afraid to help, others may be more open to the idea. :wink: I've been riding mine for close to a year and a half, it's GRRRREAT!

Here's a very long thread on the GNG: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

There are a couple more in the ebike non-hub section with that one.

Gary

He'll be riding in wet conditions. Not sure friction drive is his answer. It would start slipping.

Here's more to think about: your batteries. You need to think of a way of protecting them from the wet. There are various threads with hard cases (search "pelican case", "ammo case", even "tool box") that should give ideas. I just saw a thread where the person uses a nicely designed panier for the battery. I even think he used a smaller waterproof "Ortlieb" under the seat tool bag for his controller. Here the thread link. The picture should be on page 1.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32160

Ok, so after reading about the Gng mid drive a but, I think I have ruled it out for my first build. It seems like a superior idea with inferior components lol. I think I would be better off to buy a standard kit that is a little cheaper so I can buy a better battery.

I have been looking on Ebay some and there seems to be a few kits in the $300 range that look good.

As for my riding; I will be using the bike mostly during the school year to get to school and back. I don't need to go really fast but 35-50 km/h would be nice. School is less than 5 km from my house so range isn't a big concern but it would be nice to go 20 - 30 km on a charge minimum. There are a few hills but nothing crazy. I would also like to be able to have some fun on the trails and dirt riding. So I guess I would like more power than top speed.

I hope to rig up a battery from Rc packs hooked up in series and parallel.

Hope that will help to figure out motor size and set up.

Hmm. I'm not really sure what your budget really is. Battery is where we really spend the money. Trail bikes go two ways, high power high cost, or lower power but lower top speed. If you build for 30 mph street, it won't ride nice on difficult trails unless you spend for the power. But a "regular" hubmotor kit can ride ok on easy trails with only moderate hills. So planning on a top speed less than 30 mph/ 50kph on the street will help when you want to trail ride.

One guy in china that we trust, and has a good deal on hubmotor kits is Cellman, his site is called Emissions Free.

The best hubmotor kit dealer in the world is in Canada, Grin cyclery. The owner of Grin is a real innovator who pushed the quality of motor kits up, invented stuff, and btw pays for this website you are reading, without posting a single ad.

Back to the battery, 12s RC lipo from Hobby king is a good basic battery. Four 6s 5000 mha lipo bricks is a very common setup and will get you a decent range to start with. Or 6 4s bricks. 50v fully charged, Most 36v controllers in kits can take the 50v no problem. You'll want a faster charger than a 50w, but avoid the cheap ones that are four 50w chargers in one box. Just get one charger of at least 150w.

Thanks for the help so far guys.

As for budget, I was hoping to stay under $750 with the battery but could probably go up to $1000 if it would make a big difference in quality (longevity) or capabilities.

I might be better off building my first bike as just a commuter and a different bikebike later for the trails. I really just need something to ride all year round in Toronto, go to school/work, get groceries etc.

I am a lot more used to riding a motorcycle than a bicycle, so maybe something that acts more like a motorcycle would be better. That being said I'm a fairly fit person and not lazy, I have no problem peddling I'm thinking I would pretty much always peddle to get going just to save batteries.

Any more help narrowing my choices would be great, thanks again

Kev

reefsider said:

Thanks for the help so far guys.

As for budget, I was hoping to stay under $750 with the battery but could probably go up to $1000 if it would make a big difference in quality (longevity) or capabilities.

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If you can afford $1000 and going to ride in the winter, consider Grin at ebike.ca
I don't use them because I find them expensive and we only get about 12 inches of rain on average around here, but they are the experts at riding in the wet and snow, and they know a lot about it. They also have a great costumer service reputation.

Also, spend the 90 minutes and watch this.

VEVA Presentation about Ebike Hub Motors, Justin Lemire-Elmore, Dec 21st 2011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gwlbAJLzI_w

The camera work is abisamil, so it is hard to get through, but the information is good for you to know. Talks a lot about riding in the wet.

I talked to ebikes.CA today and I think that the price is prohibitive for me. Been looking at this kit from AtypicalEV and it seems to be very powerful at 4200w and good price point. Also he is local to me and the price includes installation and a 1 year warranty on everything including wiring job. Claims full weather resistance as well.


He also has a 6000w oil cooled set up he has a test bike you can try apparently.


http://atypicalev.blogspot.ca/?m=1

Anyone know anything about these or tried one?

Probably overkill for what you asked for, but if this guy is close to you, I'd certainly check it out. Price seems very reasonable for a turnkey system. But $500 will would be enough to give you your minimum requirements if you diy.

wesnewell said:

Probably overkill for what you asked for, but if this guy is close to you, I'd certainly check it out. Price seems very reasonable for a turnkey system. But $500 will would be enough to give you your minimum requirements if you diy.

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Do you mean $500 would get me everything including a battery?

Yes. 48V 1000W motor kit and 10ah 12s2p rc lipo battery can be had for under $500. I assume you already a lipo battery charger setup. Now it's not going over 50kph, but close to it. Should get about 30km on a charge.

reefsider said:

wesnewell said:

Probably overkill for what you asked for, but if this guy is close to you, I'd certainly check it out. Price seems very reasonable for a turnkey system. But $500 will would be enough to give you your minimum requirements if you diy.

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Do you mean $500 would get me everything including a battery?

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NO!

You need to read it all. Batteries not included! Not sure if it comes with a wheel at that price as he says pick your wheel as the Chinise wheels suck. still a good price on batteries. Then you need the chargers.

Has a great build up on his products. Hard to believe you can get a 4200watt motor setup for $500, installed with a promise not to burn up.

If this is as good as listed he will be moobed with orders soon.

Dan

Just to clear up a bit of confusion about the GNG drive system. It''s very easy to fit. I would say a bit easier than a hub-motor as long as you have a crank puller and bottom bracket tool. It doesn't need any modifications. It works straight out of the box. No tinkering is necessary other than routine lubrication and simple adjustments to the primary chain. Most of those modifications in the other threads are to allow the system to run at higher power than it's designed for.

IMHO the GNG drive doesn't have any significant advantage over a hub motor other than its ability to provide its power at whatever speed your going, which makes it faster down-hill and up very steep hills. It has about the same power as a medium sized geared hub motor like a MAC or Bafang BPM, except that the latter can be run at higher power than their rated powers without modification more reliably. The GNG is more fun than a hub-motor. There's something exciting about changing up through the gears like a GP racer, and you can do wheelies in the lower gears. I don't think it would make such a good commuter as a hub drive because you have to do more work changing gears and the belt is exposed, so might eventually succumbe to grit etc thrown up by the front wheel, especially in the wet. I've had no problems with mine yet, bu not enough miles on it to judge its life expectancy. I think the GNG is a good solution for a recumbent trike or off-road bike, or a normal bike for very hilly rides. In theory the GNG should be more efficient than a hub-motor, but in practice you tend to use more power and go faster, so you don't go any further.

Well, that does look like a good quality package at atypical. But it's just a tad light on the motor specifications. Let's just say there is a big difference between a 4000w motor and a motor being fed 4000w.

Since your budget is so short, I'd say go with a very affordable standard 36-48v hubmotor kit such as the Yes .com or emissions free direct drive, in rear motor. Choose based on which one has the cheapest price including shipping to your location. 12s lipo battery as suggested as well for now. Later on with more funds, a more powerfull controller and upping the battery to 18s voltage won't cost too much. Even the cheap motors if they are direct drive type, can tolerate 3000w controllers for a ride under 10 miles.

You oughta be able to get the motor kit well under the $500 mark, leaving about $300 to spend on batterys from Hobby King and some wiring and voltage monitoring stuff. I assume you have some kind of charger, but to fast charge you will want to spend another $150 or so most likely.

Oh, and read up on torque arms and torque plates. Without em you'll twist up your motor wires and blow controllers.