Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25106
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by amberwolf » Dec 28 2017 1:56am

markz wrote:
Dec 27 2017 11:14pm
Do you think I should go with flat metal, angle iron or boxed or tube?
I really need strength!!!!
How about this?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... .#p1247409
For it's weight it's very strong. Probably stronger than the frame of the bike it's attached to. ;)

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7146
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Chalo » Dec 28 2017 2:25am

All else equal, round tube is strongest. But square tube is almost as strong, and much easier for most of us to construct with.

I've noticed that most Dutch bikes have tubular steel racks (carrying adult passengers on the rack is a given in the Netherlands), and I also noticed when I was in Rio de Janeiro recently that almost all the bike racks were big beefy things made from steel tubing.
rps20171228_012303.jpg
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

LewTwo   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1056
Joined: Apr 08 2014 4:46pm
Location: Houston, Texas
Contact:

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LewTwo » Dec 28 2017 9:18am

Here you go. It is even tested for use in snow and ice :D
Image
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
Weight Wennie E-Bike https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1173723
Shaft Drive Grocery Getter https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=90718
...and thanks to Justin!

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6135
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by markz » Dec 28 2017 4:08pm

What is that 1/4" alum tubing? Must be very thick wall thickness.
I like it, I am going over kill on mine. 1" and 1.25" alum square telescopic for strength! The store didnt have anything smaller.

amberwolf wrote:
Dec 28 2017 1:56am
For it's weight it's very strong.
Here is what I got done so far. Today is just finishing it up. I said the top of the rack is going to be angle iron 1" angle 3/16" thick x 22" long. But I am debating whether to go steel legs, or telescopic alum. Going Alum for legs and top, steel is too heavy.
Plan for Rear Rack.jpg
Plan for Rear Rack.jpg (141.08 KiB) Viewed 521 times

User avatar
eCue   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 631
Joined: Nov 03 2017 5:14pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 29 2017 12:09am

Chalo wrote:
Dec 28 2017 1:48am
eCue wrote:
Dec 27 2017 2:44pm
A link to about 10 higher quality trailers and a few lower quality ..a few I have seen for the first time.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-bik ... e-touring/
The fact that only one of those trailers has a full diameter wheel, and only two of them can be loaded for correct tongue weight, makes me question the writer's criteria. Basically, anything you can do with most of the trailers in the article, you can also do without a trailer.

I can see the point of them if you want to tour with a sporting road bike or MTB. If you can't mount racks and panniers, you have to make another plan.

To me, adding, pulling, and locking up the trailer is enough of an inconvenience that I'll only find it worthwhile if I can carry more, bigger, or heavier things than I can carry on the bike.
Full diameter wheels ? know wonder you find a trailer inconvenient your wheels have been too large the whole time !

My trailer gets stuck in the hallway , trailers suck
or
I like bags not trailers so there

Try harder to be constructive not so destructive would you

Anyone can be a Douche its not hard try to be nice
Solar charge station on wheels join the Revolution

User avatar
eCue   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 631
Joined: Nov 03 2017 5:14pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 29 2017 1:05am

Despite what Naysayers ahhem might try and have you believe single wheel trailers have a good rep

[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND0SERkAAtw[/youtube]






This is one is a first

Solar charge station on wheels join the Revolution

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25106
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by amberwolf » Dec 29 2017 1:53am

markz wrote:
Dec 28 2017 4:08pm
What is that 1/4" alum tubing? Must be very thick wall thickness.
If you mean on mine, it's just 1/4" mild steel square tubing, not all that thickwall (1/16" at most, probably less). It's all scrapped retail signholders (they were the "T"s that stick out of the top of the aisles, that hold the signs over the aisles to tell you what's on each side):
Image


I like it, I am going over kill on mine. 1" and 1.25" alum square telescopic for strength!
Personally I don't like aluminum tube or rod for stuff like racks because it tends to crack at all the joints where it flexes or vibrates, and then breaks off when under load (usually at the worst moment). I did use aluminum on the DayGlo Avenger rack, but it was plate not tube, and more than 1/8" thick. I don't know which kind it was, but the top plate was made from a piece of test equipment fixture, and the two side plates were made from rack "ears" for rackmount computers/test equipment, so it had to be stiff enough to hold big heavy boxes up by just the narrow edges on the front (top, on the rack). Then it was bolted sides-to-top with 1/4"-20 steel hardware (nut/lockwasher/washer/washer/bolt), to make a fairly stiff upside-down box with open bottom, front and back, that was then hose clamped (thru slits) to the stays of the bike.

It also had a thickwall aluminum box (from yet more rackmount test equipment) bolted (1/4"-20 hardware again) to the left side of the rack's side panel.

The main problem I had with it was that it was very difficult to get to the brake arms/pads to align or install them on the rear wheel or to loosen the cable to take the wheel off to fix flats/etc.



It was very stiff, and carried a lot of weight many times, as well as supporting the trailer hitch--eventually the bike frame itself cracked (aluminum) at the seatstay on the right side past the rack toward the seatpost. :/
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Here is what I got done so far. Today is just finishing it up. I said the top of the rack is going to be angle iron 1" angle 3/16" thick x 22" long. But I am debating whether to go steel legs, or telescopic alum. Going Alum for legs and top, steel is too heavy.

Steel might seem heavy, but think about how heavy what you'll carry is, and how heavy the motor is, the battery, the bike itself, and the rider, and the small difference in weight between steel and aluminum for a bolt-together DIY rack really wouldn't matter. I'd just go all steel. (plus you can weld it together later, once you get into welding).

Angle iron, if it's stuff like bedframe material, is really thick and heavy, and hard (difficult to drill thru). I've used it for stationary things, but generally don't like using it on bikes/trailers/etc.


BTW, on the front purple dot in teh pic, where the rack connects to the seatpost--I hope you don't intend to drill thru the post to bolt it there. You could clamp to the seatpost, or seattube (stronger).

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25106
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by amberwolf » Dec 29 2017 2:11am

eCue wrote:
Dec 29 2017 12:09am
Full diameter wheels ? know wonder you find a trailer inconvenient your wheels have been too large the whole time !
Larger wheels roll easier over curbs, bumps, potholes, especially with a load on them. They also have longer spokes which give better suspension to the load, and beat the crap out of the wheel less on bad roads with heavy loads. ;)

That's why I built the Mk IV trailer like this:
Image

vs the Mk III like this:
Image

and the Mk IV has hauled quite a lot more load than the previous versions while handling better with better ride quality.
Image
Image

Its' also why I'm using 26" rear wheels on my brother's trike rather than the 20" on mine. (If I ever rebuild mine to middrive vs hubmotor, I'll probably change it to 26" too, for the better ride quality on bad roads).

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6135
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by markz » Dec 29 2017 3:47am

amberwolf wrote:
Dec 29 2017 1:53am
BTW, on the front purple dot in teh pic, where the rack connects to the seatpost--I hope you don't intend to drill thru the post to bolt it there. You could clamp to the seatpost, or seattube (stronger).
You were reading my mind, yes I intended to drill a 1/4" hole in the seat post and continue using 1/4 threaded rod. Whats in behind the 1" alum square at the post is 3/4" alum square friction fitted tightly at the moment, only 1-2" to long to fill the gap. Looking at my receipt Alum was $70cdn for two 8' pieces, but one was on sale, they owe me $18!!! I shoulda roamed behind stores for some of that shelving!
rear rack 1inch alum.jpg
rear rack 1inch alum.jpg (170.93 KiB) Viewed 521 times
I wonder what I can do now to reduce potential cracking as you mentioned.

User avatar
eCue   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 631
Joined: Nov 03 2017 5:14pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 29 2017 10:41am

Chalo thinks big wheeled trailers are best and racks are much more covenant to use then trailers , I wonder about him he promotes the biggest most inconvenient trailers and them complains about them.

Then promotes a rack as being much better lmao



Truth is he just wants to be a negative person


Image



Image
Solar charge station on wheels join the Revolution

craneplaneguy   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 758
Joined: Nov 27 2015 9:15am
Location: S.E. Idaho USA

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by craneplaneguy » Dec 29 2017 11:57am

Anybody ever seen any kind of conveyance a dog HAS NOT wanted to ride in or on? I haven't. I bet the first chariot or wheeled vehicle of any kind, about 10 minutes after it's designer first rode it, had their dog jump on. Dogs frigging rule.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6135
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by markz » Dec 29 2017 2:32pm

rear rack progress.jpg
rear rack progress.jpg (125.25 KiB) Viewed 521 times
Green is doable, Pink is added beefiness, maybe instead of two pieces make it all one piece.

Then adding some more legs.

One mistake is the axle mounting, should have done a longer metric bolt to use two of the walls of alum square tubing, instead of countersink and 1 wall.

Anyone got anything helpful to add to make this rack unbreakable!!!?


Added a "stiffener"
rear racking.jpg
rear racking.jpg (182.97 KiB) Viewed 521 times
Probably should have done one piece from seat rail bolt to the seat stay tube
Last edited by markz on Dec 29 2017 6:54pm, edited 2 times in total.

LewTwo   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1056
Joined: Apr 08 2014 4:46pm
Location: Houston, Texas
Contact:

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LewTwo » Dec 29 2017 2:34pm

I would question the logic of building rack that is significantly stronger than the bicycle frame to which it is mounted.
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
Weight Wennie E-Bike https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1173723
Shaft Drive Grocery Getter https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=90718
...and thanks to Justin!

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25106
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by amberwolf » Dec 29 2017 2:35pm

eCue wrote:
Dec 29 2017 10:41am
Chalo thinks big wheeled trailers are best
What size wheel is best depends on what you want out of it, and I posted some reasons big wheels are better than small ones in those situations. Some other people also use big-wheeled trailers, for specific reasons.

One reason people use smaller wheels (especially on two-wheel trailers with the deck between them) is so the deck is lower, for a lower COG. That's the main reason my SB Cruiser trike is built with smaller rear wheels.

But if the deck is slung down between the wheels, there's no need to do that (hence my Mk IV trailer design to test the theory).

If you have smooth roads, no bumps or potholes or curbs, small wheels work fine. If you have to have the wheels under the deck, or under a rack on a one-wheel trailer/etc, small wheels are necessary to keep the deck or rack lower to the ground for lower COG.

There's other situational reasons, but those are some of the main ones.

and racks are much more covenant to use then trailers
Again, it depends on the situation. If you have a situation in which a trailer is impossible or inconvenient to use, like having to lug the bike up winding stairs or in a small elevator at any point in the trip, a rack or panniers could be a lot easier to deal with.

I've always used bikes as my primary transportation, including cargo/groceries/etc. Sometimes it's better to carry the cargo on the bike, and sometimes it's better on a trailer. Depends on various factors each of which is different in importance to different people in different situations.

Rather than argue who posts what, why not just post your own experiences about it, with the details of the situations and why you chose one over the other?


Truth is he just wants to be a negative person
Chalo, like the rest of us, is posting his experiences and knowledge based on those.

Each of the people, items, and articles you link to are also doing that--posting their experiences, or else they are just giving marketing (which doesnt' necessarily have anything to do with reality).

At this point, you yourself are being negative about him, when you advised him to be positive.

I think you'd be better off just focusing on the topic, and if you have contrary advice to his, post that and your specific reasons and experience that you are using those items. If you don't have any personal experience with something, you could point to someone else's post or page or article about that experience (but posting stuff from companies that sell them or ads for them doesn't help, because that's all marketing).

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25106
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by amberwolf » Dec 29 2017 2:36pm

LewTwo wrote:
Dec 29 2017 2:34pm
I would question the logic of building rack that is significantly stronger than the bicycle frame to which it is mounted.
At least you know the rack won't break from the load. ;)

If the bike breaks then you know you need a better bike to carry that load. :P

User avatar
eCue   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 631
Joined: Nov 03 2017 5:14pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 29 2017 3:57pm

amberwolf wrote:
Dec 29 2017 2:35pm
eCue wrote:
Dec 29 2017 10:41am
Chalo thinks big wheeled trailers are best
What size wheel is best depends on what you want out of it, and I posted some reasons big wheels are better than small ones in those situations. Some other people also use big-wheeled trailers, for specific reasons.

One reason people use smaller wheels (especially on two-wheel trailers with the deck between them) is so the deck is lower, for a lower COG. That's the main reason my SB Cruiser trike is built with smaller rear wheels.

But if the deck is slung down between the wheels, there's no need to do that (hence my Mk IV trailer design to test the theory).

If you have smooth roads, no bumps or potholes or curbs, small wheels work fine. If you have to have the wheels under the deck, or under a rack on a one-wheel trailer/etc, small wheels are necessary to keep the deck or rack lower to the ground for lower COG.

There's other situational reasons, but those are some of the main ones.

and racks are much more covenant to use then trailers
Again, it depends on the situation. If you have a situation in which a trailer is impossible or inconvenient to use, like having to lug the bike up winding stairs or in a small elevator at any point in the trip, a rack or panniers could be a lot easier to deal with.

I've always used bikes as my primary transportation, including cargo/groceries/etc. Sometimes it's better to carry the cargo on the bike, and sometimes it's better on a trailer. Depends on various factors each of which is different in importance to different people in different situations.

Rather than argue who posts what, why not just post your own experiences about it, with the details of the situations and why you chose one over the other?


Truth is he just wants to be a negative person
Chalo, like the rest of us, is posting his experiences and knowledge based on those.

Each of the people, items, and articles you link to are also doing that--posting their experiences, or else they are just giving marketing (which doesnt' necessarily have anything to do with reality).

At this point, you yourself are being negative about him, when you advised him to be positive.

I think you'd be better off just focusing on the topic, and if you have contrary advice to his, post that and your specific reasons and experience that you are using those items. If you don't have any personal experience with something, you could point to someone else's post or page or article about that experience (but posting stuff from companies that sell them or ads for them doesn't help, because that's all marketing).

I think your totally mistaken about Chalo I find him argumentative but I like your version better !

From Now on I will deal with his attitude with direct Knowledge
Solar charge station on wheels join the Revolution

User avatar
eCue   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 631
Joined: Nov 03 2017 5:14pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 29 2017 6:48pm

I am also hoping the problem improves and moves forward in a positive way

Two single wheels in tandem , not suggesting this is a good idea ! its entertaining

Solar charge station on wheels join the Revolution

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7146
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Chalo » Dec 29 2017 10:48pm

amberwolf wrote:
Dec 29 2017 2:11am
eCue wrote:
Dec 29 2017 12:09am
Full diameter wheels ? know wonder you find a trailer inconvenient your wheels have been too large the whole time !
Larger wheels roll easier over curbs, bumps, potholes, especially with a load on them. They also have longer spokes which give better suspension to the load, and beat the crap out of the wheel less on bad roads with heavy loads. ;)
These things, plus a couple more:

- Full sized wheels have lower rolling resistance than smaller wheels, like for like. This is a welcome difference when you've already accepted a weight and aerodynamic penalty.

- There's a much better selection of quality tires and rims for 26" and 700c wheels than other sizes.

- When your bike and trailer use the same size wheel, you only need one size of tube and tire. Not a big deal when at home, but a benefit when touring.

These other benefits besides ride quality are not that important when you're only carrying light loads, like what a single wheeled, rear pivoted trailer will tolerate. But they become more important as loads increase.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

User avatar
eCue   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 631
Joined: Nov 03 2017 5:14pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 29 2017 11:17pm

Thanks for sharing your feelings / opinion even though its not relevant to me or my uses or likes. You ,must be a city boy

Im a county boy with big distances and no heavy loads
Last edited by eCue on Dec 29 2017 11:47pm, edited 1 time in total.
Solar charge station on wheels join the Revolution

LewTwo   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1056
Joined: Apr 08 2014 4:46pm
Location: Houston, Texas
Contact:

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LewTwo » Dec 29 2017 11:47pm

Full sized wheel ???
Image
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
Weight Wennie E-Bike https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1173723
Shaft Drive Grocery Getter https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=90718
...and thanks to Justin!

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25106
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by amberwolf » Dec 30 2017 12:22am

eCue wrote:
Dec 29 2017 11:17pm
Thanks for sharing your feelings / opinion even though its not relevant to me or my uses or likes.
Remember this thread is not specifically about you or your uses or likes, it is a general thread about Panniers, Trailers, and Other Cargo Solutions, for anyone that will ever visit ES or search via google.

So all information about them is welcome, not just that which agrees with you, regardless of who it is from.

I suggest that if you have a beef with any particular person, for any reason, you use the report button on the post to notify moderators of your problem with the post / person, and let them deal with it, rather than continuing this behavior that is derailing the thread from it's topic.

User avatar
eCue   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 631
Joined: Nov 03 2017 5:14pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 30 2017 12:26am

If you need metal for a trailer or rack often the scrap metal recyclers will sell scrap metal back to the public at a increased rate. The variety can be huge


If you dont weld you could make a bending jig and bend up a aluminum trailer

Solar charge station on wheels join the Revolution

User avatar
eCue   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 631
Joined: Nov 03 2017 5:14pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 30 2017 12:29am

amberwolf wrote:
Dec 30 2017 12:22am
eCue wrote:
Dec 29 2017 11:17pm
Thanks for sharing your feelings / opinion even though its not relevant to me or my uses or likes.
Remember this thread is not specifically about you or your uses or likes, it is a general thread about Panniers, Trailers, and Other Cargo Solutions, for anyone that will ever visit ES or search via google.

So all information about them is welcome, not just that which agrees with you, regardless of who it is from.

I suggest that if you have a beef with any particular person, for any reason, you use the report button on the post to notify moderators of your problem with the post / person, and let them deal with it, rather than continuing this behavior that is derailing the thread from it's topic.
Back on topic now. , I will not be conveying with it any longer.,
Solar charge station on wheels join the Revolution

craneplaneguy   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 758
Joined: Nov 27 2015 9:15am
Location: S.E. Idaho USA

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by craneplaneguy » Dec 30 2017 1:01pm

Some nice trailers here with larger wheels, and a good dog riding in trailer video also, but hard to watch without laughing. https://cycletote.com/trailers/dog-trailers/

craneplaneguy   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 758
Joined: Nov 27 2015 9:15am
Location: S.E. Idaho USA

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by craneplaneguy » Dec 30 2017 1:19pm

My Travoy behind the BBSHD/Rohloff/Montague combo, with 8 gallons of regular mogas in the fuel bladder being carried. The quick foldability of both the Travoy and the eMontague amuses the hell out of any one watching when I land somewhere. I often get "we sell fuel here", yeah but it's leaded AV gas, a higher octane then I need, and it costs 2 or 3 dollars more a gallon! This trip alone (about 3 miles to the station from the airstrip) I saved over $20.00. Plus, after I ate lunch I left the trailer (the instant hitch is great, takes a second maybe) in a secure location and rode all over and around the canyons near town. The handling is great as the CG is low, braking is something to keep in mind, as is jumping curbs. A lesson learned long ago is not to romp on the throttle too much from a standstill, as that hitch location, the lowest gear in the Rohloff, and the trailer weight combine to make huge wheelies inadvertently possible. Just the thing to really get the attention of an approaching Winnebago and let you slip across the road before they get there. The driver would have really been impressed if he knew my payload. As small as my plane is, it's frigging amazing I can fit this combo of bike/plane inside, along with all my camping gear no less. I am so tickled with it I don't mind the small tires on the trailer, their "push a button and they pop off" feature sounds scary, but works perfect. If I could get 16'' tires with that feature I would, anyone know if that's possible?

IMG_20170826_132843728_HDR~2.jpg

Post Reply