Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4973
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by markz » Jan 04, 2018 8:52 pm

May be better to look into a small gas generator for long hauls where you dont know if there will be an outlet or not. I know in the city sometimes I get stranded with no plug ins. Something Justin mentioned in his cross country video is "pilon" signs, the rotating mall signs, usually have outlets, also in winter areas, parking lots have outlets. But for long haul country riding, I wouldnt dare go out without a 500W 120Vac 4A output generator. They are so small, and so cheap.

https://www.harborfreight.com/900-max-s ... 63025.html
Max Starting Watts 900
Product Height 16-1/4 in.
Product Length 19-2/4 in.
Product Weight 38.2 lb.
Product Width 15-1/4 in.
Shipping Weight 38.00 lb.
Where as this really compact gen is 1000W, saves 10lbs and saves a few inches is all. Prices seem to be around $800usd or $1000cdn, maybe used you can snag one for half the price, maybe. HF is only $110usd.
https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/gener ... r-ef1000is

The covated Honda silent series gen 1000W
EU1000i is 29lbs and Dimensions (L x W x H) 17.7" x 9.4" x 15.0"

User avatar
eCue
100 W
100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 04, 2018 10:38 pm

I did look into a mini generator its just not suitable for me it would be better for someone traveling by Donkey Kart or whatever as it weighs 30 - 38 lbs plus what ever fuel is
Solar panels weigh 3.5 lbs each

The Weather is predictable I bet old heartattack the pest did not think of that one ... his brain hurts
be careful what Kool-aid Jug you drink from. In all honesty I find the weather forecast to err on the side of caution other then that its accurate.
Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets :D

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13333
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LockH » Jan 04, 2018 10:58 pm

Hehe... Again... Maybe don't forget the paying passengers as "cargo":
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1342903

(It's the accountant in me speaking...) The "best" cargo spaces might serve "double-duty". :wink:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
eCue
100 W
100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 05, 2018 12:00 am

My big brother

This

Image

Pulling This

Image

Solar panels have been proven to be viable to tow behind a ebike. Its nothing new. Fear not readers instead enjoy life :D
Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets :D

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13333
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LockH » Jan 05, 2018 1:51 am

eCue wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 12:00 am
My big brother
This
Image
Hehe... (Being a "human"...) It's ALL about "profit". :mrgreen: (My Scandinavian ancestors termed it "viking"...) :mrgreen:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
eCue
100 W
100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 05, 2018 9:33 am

Its as easy to get sidetracked in the wrong direction
Image

as it is to be grounded and happy

Image


Image

Its easy just say no to fear

Image

its all in the head and not real

Image


My best advice to all is Enjoy life not imagined fear

Single wheel trailers take little material and tow swiftly

Built for ease of towing with a side effect of faster speed and easier storage.

Image

It appears the Future is single wheel trailer friendly , Burley's latest release

Image
Last edited by eCue on Jan 05, 2018 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets :D

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13333
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LockH » Jan 05, 2018 10:51 am

"Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets"... Image

Hehe... Can only suggest wrapping your shell/case/etc. with some "thin film" solar...

Image

:)
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
eCue
100 W
100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 05, 2018 10:59 am

Its a funny time for solar panels right now they are on the cusp of some great PV designs
The roll up panels are heavy and of low efficiency now , not for ever / long.
The thin films are too expensive for us non millionaires right now but prices will come down.

The semi flex ones like I bought are a compromise but the best one given my options.
Have a look at prices and weighs and see whats left. All the ebike trailers use semi flex for the same reason.

Low weight durability and price

The best option is a roll up thin film , if i had the money I would be enjoying it ..I dont look forward to these panels in the wind. Like others I will deal with it
Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets :D

User avatar
eCue
100 W
100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 05, 2018 12:15 pm

yikes

Good design or not the weight ratio is all out of whack.

Its Not safe but is fun to look at

Image
Image
Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets :D

User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6338
Joined: Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Chalo » Jan 05, 2018 1:44 pm

Do you mean the ratio of tow vehicle weight to trailer weight? Because the weight distribution among the trailer wheels is that of a normal trike.

That design has been promoted as "Carla Cargo" with an emphasis on electric propulsion. The fact that it's easy to install a single hub motor and brake it mechanically or electrically with a single brake makes it practical for much heavier loads than a conventional trailer. https://www.carlacargo.de/en/
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 24232
Joined: Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by amberwolf » Jan 05, 2018 1:52 pm

I'm obviously not seeing the same picture you must be, because what shows up here is a picture of a dump truck trailer, most definitely not a bicycle trailer. Perhaps someone else could also attach a screenshot of what they see for the same post. Mine is below:
dumptruck trailer50.jpg
dumptruck trailer50.jpg (51.82 KiB) Viewed 273 times
This is one of the problems that happens when people don't attach the images to their post, but instead link to one on a website. Some websites don't serve up the same image to everyone even if the link is the same. Why, I don't know--but it happens, as the screenshot above shows.

Buk___
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 383
Joined: Jul 28, 2017 5:59 pm

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Buk___ » Jan 05, 2018 2:15 pm

amberwolf wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 1:52 pm
I'm obviously not seeing the same picture you must be, because what shows up here is a picture of a dump truck trailer, most definitely not a bicycle trailer. Perhaps someone else could also attach a screenshot of what they see for the same post. Mine is below:

dumptruck trailer50.jpg

This is one of the problems that happens when people don't attach the images to their post, but instead link to one on a website. Some websites don't serve up the same image to everyone even if the link is the same. Why, I don't know--but it happens, as the screenshot above shows.
S'funny. I see both images one above the other.
sc.jpg
sc.jpg (24.86 KiB) Viewed 269 times

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13333
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LockH » Jan 05, 2018 2:29 pm

eCue wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 10:59 am
Its a funny time for solar panels right now they are on the cusp of some great PV designs
The roll up panels are heavy and of low efficiency now , not for ever / long.
The thin films are too expensive for us non millionaires right now but prices will come down.

The semi flex ones like I bought are a compromise but the best one given my options.
Have a look at prices and weighs and see whats left. All the ebike trailers use semi flex for the same reason.

Low weight durability and price

The best option is a roll up thin film , if i had the money I would be enjoying it ..I dont look forward to these panels in the wind. Like others I will deal with it.
Image

:wink: Plans include putting a cover on my recumbent trike a la velomobile... and paper the outside of the thing. :mrgreen:

Image
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

craneplaneguy
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 620
Joined: Nov 27, 2015 9:15 am
Location: S.E. Idaho USA

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by craneplaneguy » Jan 05, 2018 7:31 pm

markz wrote:
Jan 04, 2018 8:52 pm
May be better to look into a small gas generator for long hauls where you dont know if there will be an outlet or not. I know in the city sometimes I get stranded with no plug ins. Something Justin mentioned in his cross country video is "pilon" signs, the rotating mall signs, usually have outlets, also in winter areas, parking lots have outlets. But for long haul country riding, I wouldnt dare go out without a 500W 120Vac 4A output generator. They are so small, and so cheap.

https://www.harborfreight.com/900-max-s ... 63025.html
Max Starting Watts 900
Product Height 16-1/4 in.
Product Length 19-2/4 in.
Product Weight 38.2 lb.
Product Width 15-1/4 in.
Shipping Weight 38.00 lb.
Where as this really compact gen is 1000W, saves 10lbs and saves a few inches is all. Prices seem to be around $800usd or $1000cdn, maybe used you can snag one for half the price, maybe. HF is only $110usd.
https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/gener ... r-ef1000is

The covated Honda silent series gen 1000W
EU1000i is 29lbs and Dimensions (L x W x H) 17.7" x 9.4" x 15.0"
The Yamaha is more highly regarded then the little Honda by some. A lot of Alaska pilots carry them for pre heating their aircraft, at least as popular as the Honda, which has a issue with an oil vent frosting over in sub zero temps that the Yamaha doesn't. It's also a few decibels quieter, and a pound or so lighter, and as legendary in it's reliability. Still way to heavy to pack around with a bike though. As for the HF one: you get what you pay for.... now if it was 10 or 15 lbs., I'd be willing to take chance on one, but it's a boat anchor. But that HF price IS hard to beat!

I've posted about this before, but what we e bikers need is a purpose specific very small but high quality genset using the little Honda 4 stroke's, something that weighs 12 lbs, and puts out 400 watts, and there ain't no such animal, I guess have to design and manufacture one but I'd bet by the time you got done due to the low amount of buyers it'd have to priced too high to be viable. It wouldn't be no $110.00 that's for sure, more like $6 to 800, lightness costs, as we pilots say. "How light do you want it? How much money do you have?"

User avatar
eCue
100 W
100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 05, 2018 7:34 pm

If you need more flex then the semi flex panels then flexible is the solution. They are heavier due the flexible backing but fit locations the semi flex will not.

Image

Image

Today, solar energy is becoming as visible as the sun. Flexible, thin-film photovoltaic (PV) products are a vital component of this movement. They incorporate very thin layers of photovoltaic material placed on a glass superstrate or a metal substrate. Thin-film solar cells can consist of several technologies, including cadmium telluride, copper indium gallium selenide and amorphous thin-film silicon.

Cadmium telluride is the predominant thin-film technology. With about 5 percent of worldwide PV production, it accounts for more than half of the thin-film market. Thin-film PV thickness varies from a few nanometers to tens of micrometers. This is much thinner than flexible films' rival technology, the conventional, first-generation crystalline silicone solar cell, which uses wafers of to 200 micrometers. One of the main advantages to flexible thin-film

PV products is that they can manufactured in long, continuous rolls, or incorporated onto a flexible substrate, such as laminates, shingles and roofing tile.
Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets :D

User avatar
eCue
100 W
100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 05, 2018 8:04 pm

amberwolf wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 1:52 pm
I'm obviously not seeing the same picture you must be, because what shows up here is a picture of a dump truck trailer, most definitely not a bicycle trailer. Perhaps someone else could also attach a screenshot of what they see for the same post. Mine is below:

dumptruck trailer50.jpg

This is one of the problems that happens when people don't attach the images to their post, but instead link to one on a website. Some websites don't serve up the same image to everyone even if the link is the same. Why, I don't know--but it happens, as the screenshot above shows.
Good catch on the glitch , When posting that time I did not separate the photo links instead left them following each other.

Normally I leave a gap between them and it may of confused the server etc.
Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets :D

User avatar
eCue
100 W
100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 05, 2018 10:30 pm

this next option is for you guys as I already own and am committed to the panels



Free energy

Whats got my attention is a Pelton wheel generator as all my routes have rivers & streams making for a steady supply of energy.

Image

Using a lightweight roll or fold up type hose would be paramount for a portable generator
As its on my mind I may well end up buying parts to make a 250w pelton generator


Can't be that hard to rig up the wheels come in plastic Aluminum or stainless and priced accordingly.

*Bonus* with one is it would work at anytime of the day / night.
Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets :D

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13333
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LockH » Jan 05, 2018 10:34 pm

I lust after "cheapest" (/mile)... :mrgreen:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
eCue
100 W
100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 05, 2018 11:39 pm

I have to check into the actual output of pelton wheel sizes vs motor size yet but right now it looks to be a affordable construct

350w sealed case for moisture rejection for $70 with shipping on eBay.

Weighs 4.25 lbs

Image

To keep it simple could order a matched model straight from China

Image

I won't be attempting this project for at least a year ...
Last edited by eCue on Jan 06, 2018 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets :D

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4973
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by markz » Jan 05, 2018 11:58 pm

This one looks pretty small, maybe you could shed a couple pounds off it. Stash it in your trailer if your going on long distance cross country ebiking, so you are not stranded with no outlet between towns, thats what I am thinking anyways.

http://www.getearthquake.com/inverter-g ... r-800-watt
40cc 21lbs 15x8x14 6.5A 120V out, 12VDC3A out.

A little smaller size wise, same weight, less output.
http://www.powerhouse-products.com/powe ... duct/500wi
31cc 21lbs 12.6"H x 8.2"W x 14.1"D 12VDC2.5A 120VAC 4.1A

This one is 19lbs
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dirty-Hand- ... /206958269

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/450-wa ... rator.html

1L of gas is 1.7lbs.



DIY Custom generator, cant be that hard to do can it?
Can we get the weight even less then 20lbs, I doubt it.
Something like the Power Sonic battery, say 12V 10Ah weighs in at 7 or 8 lbs. Alternator would weigh in at say 10 lbs. Already pretty close to 21lbs of an inverter gas gen. The size of those gas inverters on a trailer, well 15x8x14" aint bad at all.

I'd look into a small 30cc weed wacker motors, then the generator part needs figuring out. Perhaps a 30-70A car or 1/2 truck alternator, running a 12V inverter 120VAC 6A output, more then enough for MW 4A requirement.
https://www.harborfreight.com/750-watt- ... 69660.html

Could you run inverter right off alternator or would it fry it with too much amps. Or could you throttle the gas motor for just the right amount of amps. Who knows.
If battery is required then gotta figure out what deep cycle battery the alternator will charge.

I am sold on a little 500W generator that can handle 4.5A at 120VAC and placed inside a trailer to charge up a battery pack while going multi-day long trips.

I spent the last hour or so trying to find a lighter genset, and I found nothing below 21 or 20lbs. I can't tolerate sitting around doing nothing waiting for solar to charge. I know Mcentyre with his yescomusa ebike does solar charging at his school he works at, but there are plugins there, its a teaching aid or some idealism which I commend him for doing it. I cant imagine being on the side of the TransCanada highway, with 5 to 9 square meters of solar panels, waiting for juice.

Also with 10Ah city commuter pack, I try to get everything done, but I sometimes run out of juice say on the last mile or so, and walk home. So I just need a little 2 to 3Ah pack with them 25A 18650 next to my charger in my backpack to get me home. There has been a half dozen times now, walk home with ebike.

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 24232
Joined: Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by amberwolf » Jan 06, 2018 12:46 am

Sorry for the OT:
Buk___ wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 2:15 pm
S'funny. I see both images one above the other.
eCue wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 8:04 pm
Good catch on the glitch , When posting that time I did not separate the photo links instead left them following each other.

Normally I leave a gap between them and it may of confused the server etc.
For me, it looks the same now as it did before. Same in a version of Opera as Firefox and IE (I only have adblock/noscript stuff on FF, the others are "virgin").

I don't even see the first image at all (not even a placeholder), so I thought it was the site replacing the image.

Instead, it looks like the first image (the one that doesn't show up for me) linked is from photobucket, which is a site that has deliberately screwed up linked images for most of their users.

Even before they did that, their scripting doesn't always allow the image to show on a page anyway, unless you go to the original image directly on their site; not necessarily browser dependent, either. I think it might have to do with the IP range that's viewing the image, because sometimes when I'm at a different wifi than this one, I can see PB images fine (or rather, I could before their business model suicide attempt).

Anyway, back to the topic....

User avatar
eCue
100 W
100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 06, 2018 1:37 am

Every option has its pros and cons , find whats best for your scenarios , all have drawbacks weigh those and your best option will appear

If someone prefers rain or shine charging a gas charger could be stashed in a tote along the way

Problem is only one route has a generator on it and you still have to wait for 3 or 4 hours to charge...possibly in Sunny weather.
Or conversely may find as I did that Solar is a *pretty good* option but not without compromise same for the other options. Nothing is ideal everything has its drawbacks such is life.

Weigh them out readers then make a decision , I did Its been made = solar panels

So with that said I will pass on even stashing a generator along the way , instead will carry 7 lbs in pv panels to charge at mid day breaks on sunny road trips. Good enough ( for me)
Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets :D

User avatar
Papa
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 355
Joined: May 13, 2008 1:06 am
Location: NW

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Papa » Jan 06, 2018 1:46 am

eCue wrote:
Jan 06, 2018 1:37 am
.... , instead will carry 7 lbs in pv panels
How about a helpful link to those 100w, 3.5 lb. PVs?
~ Recycle... Ride your bike again ~

craneplaneguy
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 620
Joined: Nov 27, 2015 9:15 am
Location: S.E. Idaho USA

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by craneplaneguy » Jan 06, 2018 12:35 pm

Good find on the "Power Pony" generator, but it's not in production or for sale. There are some other very small gensets out there I see in old videos, but they are also not in production and/or use a 2 stroke screamer of an engine. Nothing current with a quality name brand 4 stroker. The lightest setup would be an alternator specifically designed for charging at (in my case) 58 volts, not in making 12 volts and then converting it etc. It's technically feasible, just going to be expensive as everything will have to be custom built.

Don't even waste your time on a hydro setup, unless you have a lot of head pressure AND flow, you won't make much power. Let's put it this way, what's next, carrying a small wind turbine?! I make 800 watts with my hydro mill, but it's fed by 1200' lineal feet of 3" pipe, with a fall of over 120' vertical feet.

User avatar
eCue
100 W
100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Nov 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Location: Vancouver Island , Canada

Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 06, 2018 3:22 pm

To be honest I like the mini pelton generator so will crunch numbers and see what weight s and output i come up with. Its not much work to look into


Did you know charging a ebike with a gas generator while traveling is illegal in Canada ? It is.

So any gas charging must take place on the sly hours and hours sitting waiting for batteries to charge with noise blarring away.

Weigh the pros and cons
for YOUR life dont listen to peoples opinions about your best interests for they dont know your circumstances or what they are really even talking about. Dont rely on guesses that discount your ideas do your own work.

You are in control

With that said it would take a 1/2 gallon of gas tom charge 1 battery !!! At that point might as well buy a moped and skip the charging losses.




Gas must be good for you guys hey , as you can see its not for me ,instead I want to travel in the Sun under the Sun power :idea: on well planned trips :D

I could also travel by hydro power I will crunch number myself , its not hard.
Solar charge station on wheels = distance not limited by the wall sockets :D

Post Reply