Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
billvon   1 MW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by billvon » Jan 06 2018 4:45pm

Papa wrote:
Jan 06 2018 1:46am
eCue wrote:
Jan 06 2018 1:37am
.... , instead will carry 7 lbs in pv panels
How about a helpful link to those 100w, 3.5 lb. PVs?
https://www.amazon.com/HQST-Monocrystal ... B017OMTAV6
--bill von

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eCue   10 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 06 2018 6:12pm

For people in Canada you can find the 22% efficient Sunpower cell 100w semi flexible panels for $165 ca, or best offer on eBay with free ship from a Canadian warehouse. Its a straight up Asian panel that was shipped here in bulk and uses the higher quality backing
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craneplaneguy   10 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by craneplaneguy » Jan 06 2018 9:30pm

To put that in perspective, the stack of 290 watt REC panels in my shop I have left over from a big project last summer, weigh about 40 lbs each. So yeah, those panels are pretty damn light! I have to wonder about their longevity though, but at that weight (and decent price) a shorter life span would still be OK, a good trade off.

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eCue   10 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 07 2018 12:07am

You should be able find the same panels for around $120 u.s I imagine. This tech has been out for years.
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eCue   10 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 07 2018 12:40am

A full flexible PV vid from 2010

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craneplaneguy   10 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by craneplaneguy » Jan 07 2018 12:21pm

At $1.20 per watt (if bought for $120.00, and free shipping) that's expensive solar these days. I paid less then .50 cents a watt, for the REC's big boys, and they will last for decades, warrantied no less. Lightness costs for sure.

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wturber   100 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by wturber » Jan 07 2018 1:54pm

eCue wrote:
Jan 06 2018 3:22pm

With that said it would take a 1/2 gallon of gas to charge 1 battery !!! At that point might as well buy a moped and skip the charging losses.
Really? So that got me thinkin ...

There are about 32 KWh of power in a gallon of gasoline. So 16 KWh for a half gallon. Typical internal combustion energy efficiency is about 20% (a small engine is probably average or less), so that leaves only about 3.2KwH produced at the motor hub. Since electric motors can be over 80% efficient, I'm going to assume a similar efficiency for an electric generator. At 80%, that leaves around 2.5KWh of energy for charging a battery. That's still a pretty big battery (30 + pounds?) - one that should give you a range of about 100 miles on a typical ebike at around 20+ mph. Less with a trailer or lots of cargo of course. Is your battery actually that large?

Grid power is typically about twice as efficient as a portable generator. I'd assume that portable generators have lousy emission characteristics as well. I can see how hauling a small generator could have practical value in some situations, but it does seem to work against the "small footprint" notion that many ebikers tend to embrace. But then I haven't tried to quantify the impacts of the manufacturing of any of these things either. Though all of these things are surely substantially less impactful per WH than human based power sources. :^)

(Side note - I wonder about the viability of direct mounting a small gas engine that would drive the direct hub equipped wheel on an ebike and use that direct drive motor as a generator. That would seem to be one of the lightest approaches ... and also puts us closer to being a moped.)
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Papa   1 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Papa » Jan 07 2018 3:31pm

Just out of curiosity... I dug-out my 35cc Robin/Subaru 4 stroke engine (w/intrigal gearbox, and it weighed just under 10 pounds (complete w/fuel tank). Easily 100+ mpg - rain or shine.. day or night. And no trailer required. When the destination exceeds much over 50 miles, I'm not convinced that dragging 150w of PVs in a 15 lb tràiler (20+ loaded), over extended distances is even remotely prudent. But hey... Whatever blows your hair back...
~ Recycle... Ride your bike again ~

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eCue   10 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 07 2018 7:10pm

craneplaneguy wrote:
Jan 07 2018 12:21pm
At $1.20 per watt (if bought for $120.00, and free shipping) that's expensive solar these days. I paid less then .50 cents a watt, for the REC's big boys, and they will last for decades, warrantied no less. Lightness costs for sure.
I have been seeing semi flex panels with a 20 year manufacturers guarantee not bad for what they are. I cant see myself every wearing them out but could see myself damaging them in a roadside wipeout ..

with luck the full flex panels will be affordable at the time if I do have a pile up hit a bridge or something not looking. Knock on wood Im not to prone to accidents so I feel *fairly* confident I will be fine :?

A nice feature with Sunpower back contact cells is if you damage any cells the panel stays working minus any damaged cells.

Full flex thin panels

If you dont mind paying near twice as much as the semi you can get full flex that are as light as the semi but roll-able for storage.

Semi flex

The semi flex panels feel flimsy wobbly so will be carried leaning on a pup tent shaped coroplast rack and attached via their eyelets with nylon nuts & bolts.
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eCue   10 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 07 2018 7:27pm

wturber wrote:
Jan 07 2018 1:54pm
eCue wrote:
Jan 06 2018 3:22pm

With that said it would take a 1/2 gallon of gas to charge 1 battery !!! At that point might as well buy a moped and skip the charging losses.
Really? So that got me thinkin ...

There are about 32 KWh of power in a gallon of gasoline. So 16 KWh for a half gallon. Typical internal combustion energy efficiency is about 20% (a small engine is probably average or less), so that leaves only about 3.2KwH produced at the motor hub. Since electric motors can be over 80% efficient, I'm going to assume a similar efficiency for an electric generator. At 80%, that leaves around 2.5KWh of energy for charging a battery. That's still a pretty big battery (30 + pounds?) - one that should give you a range of about 100 miles on a typical ebike at around 20+ mph. Less with a trailer or lots of cargo of course. Is your battery actually that large?

Grid power is typically about twice as efficient as a portable generator. I'd assume that portable generators have lousy emission characteristics as well. I can see how hauling a small generator could have practical value in some situations, but it does seem to work against the "small footprint" notion that many ebikers tend to embrace. But then I haven't tried to quantify the impacts of the manufacturing of any of these things either. Though all of these things are surely substantially less impactful per WH than human based power sources. :^)

(Side note - I wonder about the viability of direct mounting a small gas engine that would drive the direct hub equipped wheel on an ebike and use that direct drive motor as a generator. That would seem to be one of the lightest approaches ... and also puts us closer to being a moped.)



And a terrible idea ...I will suggest to anyone thinking of doing this to buy a motorcycle or moped instead.
Its illegal in Canada to use generator in this fashion because you would be effectively riding a fueled vehicle.

And would look foolish and I expect would also gather insults and heckles.

Think about it its a horrible plan and should not be promoted on a ebike form IMO
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wturber   100 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by wturber » Jan 07 2018 8:06pm

eCue wrote:
Jan 07 2018 7:27pm


And a terrible idea ...I will suggest to anyone thinking of doing this to buy a motorcycle or moped instead.
Its illegal in Canada to use generator in this fashion because you would be effectively riding a fueled vehicle.

And would look foolish and I expect would also gather insults and heckles.

Think about it its a horrible plan and should not be promoted on a ebike form IMO

Terrible? Horrible? Seems like a better idea to me than hauling around a portable generator. It's basically a hybrid bike. Are gas motor propelled bicycles really illegal in Canada? That seems odd.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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eCue   10 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 07 2018 8:09pm

In our a free World people do stuff not everyone would all the time.

So do it and enjoy all that goes with it like noise and stink or are you just a blow hard ? wasting my time an have no intentions of using a generator ?



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eCue   10 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 07 2018 9:23pm

Here is a Amazon link to the same generator as in the Video in case anyone is actually willing this gen set is on Amazon for $250 pre owned or $399 new but you should be able to find it else where for cheaper

21 lbs it may make others happy , its not for me

Image


Earthquake 11613, 700 Running Watts/800 Starting Watts, Gas Powered Portable Inverter

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FL ... en-5564-20

The new Earthquake IG800W model 11613 800 watt inverter generator provides fuel efficient and quiet power for recreational and household needs. The IG800W packs many features into a strong but lightweight design. The quality of the electrical output produced by this unit ensures that you can safely power sensitive electronics.
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eCue   10 kW

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Jan 07 2018 10:04pm

I want to put in a retraction as its not my place to tell others what good for them or not . So do whats best from your perspective / s :idea: not mine / others you have the details no one else does...
I was in error.
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