Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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_Chris_   100 W

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Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by _Chris_ » Jan 13 2013 12:34am

Much to my surprise I discovered yesterday in my area the local boys in blue have been pulling over power assisted bicycles and checking them for compliance to new rules and since they are not entirely upon technical stuff themselves they send you to a local business that tests these motors andchecks the Kw output on a machine.
If it dont meet new rules your in trouble. Thats what a policeman from highway patrol told me anyway.

Has anyone else come across this? If you haven't I thought I better tell you because it might be coming to a town near you sponsored by state governments :(

In 20 years of riding them this is the first time we have had this. its not good it really takes the fun out of it.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the bogans (rednecks) on eBay 80 CC chinagirl 2 strokes going through residential streets at high speeds without helmets on?
Last edited by _Chris_ on Jan 13 2013 12:50am, edited 1 time in total.
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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by liveforphysics » Jan 13 2013 12:49am

Hence the "legal mode" hidden switch on proper ebikes.
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_Chris_   100 W

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by _Chris_ » Jan 13 2013 12:51am

liveforphysics wrote:Hence the "legal mode" hidden switch on proper ebikes.
I couldnt imagine any of us aussies who love our wonderfully generous ebike laws even consider a switch lol.


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John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by John in CR » Jan 13 2013 1:50am

What kind of vehicle accompanies these men in Blue? A bit of catch me if you can could be fun with a silent vehicle. :twisted:

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_Chris_   100 W

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by _Chris_ » Jan 13 2013 2:01am

John in CR wrote:What kind of vehicle accompanies these men in Blue? A bit of catch me if you can could be fun with a silent vehicle. :twisted:
V8 commodore highway patrol type thing or a guy on a dirt bike.
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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by Sunder » Jan 13 2013 2:05am

Which state and what area? I doubt police would even recognise my new bike as electric when it's done.
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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by outofsquare » Jan 13 2013 2:50am

Hi Guys,

NSW, QLD & VIC have the new laws in place (VIC only brought them into play last week), the remaining states should be on board shortly.

If you read through the new legislation its got a whole bunch of items we gonna need to comply with to be leagal, the 250 watt bit is only one item which makes up the new legislation, I can see lots of $$$ the government is going to make, aparently I have been told that the cops are all going to get training on the new legislation :oops: .

Cheers

Tom

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_Chris_   100 W

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by _Chris_ » Jan 13 2013 3:44am

outofsquare wrote:Hi Guys,

NSW, QLD & VIC have the new laws in place (VIC only brought them into play last week), the remaining states should be on board shortly.

If you read through the new legislation its got a whole bunch of items we gonna need to comply with to be leagal, the 250 watt bit is only one item which makes up the new legislation, I can see lots of $$$ the government is going to make, aparently I have been told that the cops are all going to get training on the new legislation :oops: .

Cheers

Tom
We are going to need to train too.. maybe in PM so it cant be read lol
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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by Sunder » Jan 13 2013 5:11am

Ah, okay. I presume NSW Newcastle area. No such crack down in Sydney yet, except for on 2 stroke motors.
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_Chris_   100 W

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by _Chris_ » Jan 13 2013 6:33am

Sunder wrote:Ah, okay. I presume NSW Newcastle area. No such crack down in Sydney yet, except for on 2 stroke motors.
Yer and can i say those guys are wankers on this forum? riding around the streets looking like bogans ( rednecks for the us guys) near here with no helmets s at high speed in residential areas.

its why I was telling you have your excuse or solution ready for it..
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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by Sunder » Jan 13 2013 7:08am

_Chris_ wrote:
Sunder wrote:Ah, okay. I presume NSW Newcastle area. No such crack down in Sydney yet, except for on 2 stroke motors.
Yer and can i say those guys are wankers on this forum? riding around the streets looking like bogans ( rednecks for the us guys) near here with no helmets s at high speed in residential areas.

its why I was telling you have your excuse or solution ready for it..
Yep and most of them have lost their license due to PCA. So they get done for unlicencsed, unregistered and uninsured.
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_Chris_   100 W

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by _Chris_ » Jan 13 2013 7:29am

Sunder wrote: Yep and most of them have lost their license due to PCA. So they get done for unlicencsed, unregistered and uninsured.
I guess thats what happens when you have to go round the neighbourhood delivering drugs wearing your flanno with your mullet blowing in the wind on converted Big W bike thats 10 years old.
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by dogman dan » Jan 13 2013 8:17am

How deperessing for you all. I can't beleive your cops have the time and budget for enforcing such pointless laws.

Here at least, you don't get noticed unless the cops already know and hate your ass. Or you are lying there bleeding out.

Too bad your legislators never saw the wizard, and got a brain. They should at least give you 800w, so you have a chance of climbing a hill or riding into a 50kph headwind. What good is assist if it can't assist when it's hardest. Speed limits makes some sense for multi use paths, but power limits less than a few HP don't.

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The fingers   100 GW

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by The fingers » Jan 13 2013 11:50am

I am keeping mine legal to avoid getting hassled by the police, and so hopefully I don't get sued if an accident occurs; a genuine risk here in the ambulance-chasing lawyer/liar capital of the world. If I lived somewhere else it might be considered illegal though It really is just good clean fun. My bike is pretty tame by E-S standards though, I am happy just to get to work and back in one piece.

Many local governments here have cracked down on skateboarding, beaches put up yellow black ball flags to stop the surfers, I have been stopped from playing frizbee and surf fishing by punky transplanted kiddy pool lifeguards; been accused of drinking booze on the beach from a soda can by a HBPD yahoo on an ATC (I don't drink booze or even beer or wine by the way); and a recreation worker confronted me once and told me that I couldn't fly a kite at the park with my daughter even though we were the only ones there on a windy day!

You might get a petition going to boost the power for bikes if your form of government allows that, it is how many propositions get put on the ballot here. Some charities find ways for it to be done online while soliciting donations for the cause. Five hundred thousand registered voters signing on could not be ignored by the media and the politicians for very long.

In a vast and beautiful country like yours, it would be nice to be legally allowed to go faster/farther in less lime.
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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by neptronix » Jan 13 2013 12:03pm

Very sad to hear, guys.
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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by MikeFairbanks » Jan 13 2013 1:59pm

But motorcycles are okay?

Laws worldwide sure are strange. Can I grow a tomato plant? Sure. How about ferns? Roses? All are okay, but some plants (yes, simply plants) will get you jailed.

So you can buy a motorcycle capable of 150kph or more, but bring an electric bike up to more than pedaling speed and people have issues with it.


I was listening to NPR the other day, and they said that some cities want to make laws that require MORE noise from electric vehicles because of people who are blind trying to cross the street.


Weird laws. Weird thinking. Humans are strange animals. Wars around the world and we all yawn, but if a kitten falls in a well? That's news.
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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by Sunder » Jan 13 2013 3:21pm

MikeFairbanks wrote:But motorcycles are okay?

Laws worldwide sure are strange. Can I grow a tomato plant? Sure. How about ferns? Roses? All are okay, but some plants (yes, simply plants) will get you jailed.

So you can buy a motorcycle capable of 150kph or more, but bring an electric bike up to more than pedaling speed and people have issues with it.
You can legally ride a 150kph eBike here as well, but you just have to follow the same laws as a 150kph motorcycle. Not strange or inconsistent at all?
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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by _Chris_ » Jan 13 2013 3:56pm

Sunder wrote:
MikeFairbanks wrote:But motorcycles are okay?

Laws worldwide sure are strange. Can I grow a tomato plant? Sure. How about ferns? Roses? All are okay, but some plants (yes, simply plants) will get you jailed.

So you can buy a motorcycle capable of 150kph or more, but bring an electric bike up to more than pedaling speed and people have issues with it.
You can legally ride a 150kph eBike here as well, but you just have to follow the same laws as a 150kph motorcycle. Not strange or inconsistent at all?
dont do that you might give the guy on the motorbike ego issues by overtaking him with the ebike lol.
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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by dogman dan » Jan 13 2013 4:22pm

Motorcycles are legal, after you get your licence, register it and insure it. But really, 250w is too low for hubmotors.

If I was stuck with only 250w of assist, I'd for sure want it going through the gears so I could still climb a hill easy, however slow. Hubmotors don't shine till over 1000w.

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by heathyoung » Jan 13 2013 6:33pm

Interesting someone mentioned Newcastle NSW ~ hmmmm...

The accuracy of those dynos is probably questionable at such low power - the motorcycle place I asked to get the Vectrix dyno'ed at said they couldn't measure under 1KW, the inertia of the rollers throws out the measurements.
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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by Sunder » Jan 13 2013 7:10pm

heathyoung wrote:Interesting someone mentioned Newcastle NSW ~ hmmmm...

The accuracy of those dynos is probably questionable at such low power - the motorcycle place I asked to get the Vectrix dyno'ed at said they couldn't measure under 1KW, the inertia of the rollers throws out the measurements.
I suspect they would use something like this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2013-Jet-Bla ... 3cca202657

Image

It measures accurately between 5w and 900w. Even if you assume a generous 20% margin of error, anything over 300W is still illegal.
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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by liveforphysics » Jan 13 2013 8:02pm

No amount of licence plates adorned with stickers makes a vehicle any more or less safe. Arguably less safe, as licence plates have sharp-ish sheet metal edges, add a little weight, make aero drag worse, and add no value to the performance/safety of the vehicle.

The 4,000lbs 250hp cop car capable of >120mph that is driving to pull you over is more dangerous to the public in every manner and way than your bicycle.


Choose to do the right thing. The laws will catch up later, sometimes its much later...
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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by outofsquare » Jan 13 2013 8:26pm

Thought I would copy and paste the info I found on the new laws for Australia, cuts me up with the saying "Paved the Way" & "Greater Choice" 'Gives cyclists a boost" people in government dont live on the same planet I do Lol.

The Parliamentary Secretary of Infrastructure and Transport, The Hon Catherine King MP, announced that the federal government will be adopting an addition to the electric bicycle design rules (please find announcement below).

The definition of a power-assisted pedal cycle was “a pedal cycle to which is attached one or more auxiliary propulsion motors having a combined maximum power output not exceeding 200 watts.”

The current ADR definition of AB category has now been expanded to allow compliance with the full EN 15194 standard as an option.

The wording in the ADR definition has been changed to “a pedal cycle to which is attached one or more auxiliary propulsion motors having a combined maximum power not exceeding 200 watts or a Pedalec”. Pedalec has been separately defined as “a vehicle meeting European Committee for Standardization EN 15194:2009 Cycles - Electrically power assisted cycles - EPAC Bicycles”.

Main changes of the PEDALEC to the current definition are;
Max 250watt
Pedal assist – must be pedalling to gain power assistance
Top speed 25kmh (assisted)
6kmh twist and go (to assist in getting off the line)

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

• Electric bicycles which meet the former design rules can still be imported, sold and used on Australian roads without requiring the bike to be registered.
• Electric bicycles which meet the European standard (EN 15194) can now be imported into Australia (and will be able to be used without requiring registration).

USE OF THESE BIKES ON AUSTRALIAN ROADS.

• Each Australian state or territory must now pass changes to their road laws to allow PEDALEC’s to be legally used on public roads as a bicycle.
• Feedback gained from states is that this process is expected to take between 6 and 12 months (some may be quicker but were unwilling to confirm that).

The BIA is currently formally contacting all states and territories to try to gain more definitive timetables.

If we can provide any further information, please do not hesitate to contact the BIA office.


Bicycle Industries Australia Ltd

W. http://www.bikeoz.com.au


THE HON CATHERINE KING MP
PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY FOR INFRASTRUCTURE AND TRANSPORT

MEDIA RELEASE
30 MAY 2012
NEW RULES GIVE CYCLISTS A BOOST
The Gillard Government today paved the way for a new range of electric bicycles into Australia.
Parliamentary Secretary for Infrastructure and Transport, Catherine King, announced changes to the national vehicle safety standards that allow for greater consumer choice – while at the same time maintaining safety.
“There is an increasing desire within the community for modern designs of power-assisted pedal cycles. This change in the Australian Design Rules will encourage modern electric bicycles as a healthy alternative to other means of transport,” Ms King said.
“With the National Cycling Strategy 2011-16 aiming to double the number of people riding by 2016, the Government is keen to work with the cycling community to implement reforms that promote healthy lifestyles.
Ms King said that changes to the standard mean the allowable power output has now increased from 200 to 250 watts giving a higher level or performance, while maintaining safety by restricting powered speed to 25 km/h. Riders are required to pedal to access the power or to reach greater speeds than 25 km/h.
The change also means new construction standards for batteries, cables and connections as well as other requirements such as braking performance and the strength of frames.
“In addition, existing designs of machines will continue to be allowed.”
The changes are an important first step towards an overall review by Austroads of alternative vehicles, which would also include mobility scooters, and a key action identified in Australia’s National Road Safety Strategy 2011-20.
“It’s important that this continues to be a national process that is supported by all governments,” Ms King said. Ms King praised state and territory authorities for working constructively with the Commonwealth on this change.
However, she said that changes to state and territory road rules may be necessary to allow use of the new electric bicycles and advised people to contact their state road authorities to confirm local provisions. The standard that has now been adopted is EN 15194.

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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by dingoEsride » Jan 13 2013 8:35pm

liveforphysics wrote:No amount of licence plates adorned with stickers makes a vehicle any more or less safe. Arguably less safe, as licence plates have sharp-ish sheet metal edges, add a little weight, make aero drag worse, and add no value to the performance/safety of the vehicle.
Not to mention indicators and all the rest of the garb to register it and then won't be legal on bike paths, Aus even has laws that make you register an off road bike or machine on designated land, not private, but it's often not about safety for the most, its more about control and revenue, but maybe the area being targeted is a known bad zone as somebody pointed out
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Re: Aussie powered bike laws warning guys!

Post by Sunder » Jan 13 2013 9:01pm

outofsquare wrote:Thought I would copy and paste the info I found on the new laws for Australia, cuts me up with the saying "Paved the Way" & "Greater Choice" 'Gives cyclists a boost" people in government dont live on the same planet I do Lol.
I agree, it's way over sold. It's like taking the Model T ford, and saying you can now have it in Black or Charcoal, and saying that this is a huge win for consumer choice.

I'm not for having 80km/h capable electric bicycles sharing the same bike paths as me and my 3 month old son, but I'm also not for limiting electric assisted bikes to 25km/h and 250W. At some point, an electric bicycle becomes a motorcycle, and should have lights, blinkers, meet ADRs, and be registered, but it's not at 25km/h.
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After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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