Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
nukezero   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 556
Joined: Jul 02 2013 5:00pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by nukezero » Aug 31 2013 1:58pm

I actually love this bike. It looks clean and supposedly my local bike shop kept raving about it. I purchased a Motiv beach cruiser electric bike instead but I do want to pick up a full suspension ebike next time.

However, I am put off by a few things with these high-end bikes. And when I mean high end, I'm talking bikes that cost over $3 grand out the door.

The Neo Jumper for the price could use better components for my money. Here are my gripes:

1. The Neo Jumper is still only 36V. Why? I think 48V would be nice for even more torque. Probably due to the fact the limit on the battery cells in the frame design.

2. For example, it uses SR suntour rear suspension. I heard SR suntour brand is not very good?

3. The brakes are Tektro Auriga E-Comp which are fine and has integrated e-brake. But I would like maybe a e-version of the Shimano XTR / XT hydraulic brake. Also, 203mm rotors would be nice instead of the 160.

4. The Front shock Rock Shox XC32 is like low end Rock Shox suspension on their chart. Should give us the Rockshox SID or REBA line-up for that matter.

But some positives. It's got a nice set of gears in the rear, HG62 10SP 11-36T cassette, so no freewheel. Swchalbe tires and mostly shimano components all-around. It's also light-weight 48lbs.

All in all, I wished the stepped up the components a bit more for the $3999 USD MSRP. Plus, we all know Bafang BPM/BPM2 motors are inexpensive so these bikes have huge profit margins for BH motion.

I will wait for Interbike 2013 in Las Vegas and see what's in store for the next E-MTN bikes.

d8veh   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5520
Joined: Dec 10 2010 10:45am
Location: Telford

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by d8veh » Aug 31 2013 4:06pm

pjgold wrote:Unfortunately the controller does not seem to be easily fooled.

Today I removed the white white from the plug and wired in a magnet reed sensor from a cheap cycle computer. The signal worked fine with just 1 magnet it was reading up to about up to 10 km/h in the shed.
Bad news is when actually riding the controller did not supply the power it did supply some but nowhere near normal power. So it may well be that the controller is reading both speed and torque, who knows?

I might be worth trying a much closer to full speed signal however I think this is a dead end.

At least I was able to MacGyver it with a paper clip and some tape and wire so no cut wiring and bike is back to factory standard.
It's not a dead end yet. The controller might have a power profile programmed in to it so that it won't give high power at low speed. Can you try two magnets or even three? That will increase the pulse rate.

User avatar
Kepler   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3242
Joined: Nov 08 2009 9:22pm
Location: Eastern suburbs Melbourne Australia

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Kepler » Aug 31 2013 4:59pm

I like your lateral thinking on trying to solve this d8veh. Hopefully you will crack it :)
Current Rides

Lightest true ebike on the planet: ON ROAD viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74269
eBoost on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eboost/200306283342024/

d8veh   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5520
Joined: Dec 10 2010 10:45am
Location: Telford

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by d8veh » Sep 02 2013 2:14am

Where there's a will, there's a way. I think we're very close with this one.

Mazza   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 12
Joined: Mar 11 2013 10:40pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Mazza » Sep 02 2013 11:05pm

That'd be great if there's a reversible way to crack the limiter. I'm keeping tabs on this thread. :D

pjgold   100 W

100 W
Posts: 108
Joined: Mar 16 2013 8:54pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by pjgold » Sep 07 2013 2:18am

Well guys I finally have cracked it I have in my hands a working speed limit hack for my Neo Cross.
I have had a ride up and down the street with it temporarily connected and it appears to be working fine.

It is actually a very simple little circuit and I will be able to use it with no mods to the original bike.

Here it is Image

It is no more than a frequency divider and works much like the Bosch dongle it intercepts the signal coming from the hubs speed sensor and halves it, reducing it from 6 pulses per revolution to 3.
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/cou ... unt_1.html
The chip in use is a 4013 IC which cost me a exorbitant $0.95.
When finished I will make an adapter so you can simply unplug the original 6 pin plug and plug in the divider.

The circuit itself takes the input signal from the bikes white wire, power from the red and black. So when done the adapter will have black, blue, green, yellow and red as straight through circuits with just the white running through the chip and piggy backed power.

The down side is that your speedometer will read half you actual speed, shame the settings on the display unit don't go higher that 35" other wise you could compensate for it.

Now I just need to wait for the sockets and plugs to turn up !!
No news on actual speed difference I didn't want to ride it around with it held together with pins and tape.

d8veh   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5520
Joined: Dec 10 2010 10:45am
Location: Telford

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by d8veh » Sep 07 2013 4:59am

Excellent work. You'll make a lot of people happy. It's a shame you can't reduce the frequency by 5/8. Then you could use the KM/h as MPH.

I still believe that the cycle computer method will work with three magnets, which will also halve the pulse speed.

2moto   100 W

100 W
Posts: 170
Joined: Jan 30 2012 5:48pm
Location: North Yorkshire, UK

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by 2moto » Sep 07 2013 7:30am

d8veh wrote:It's a shame you can't reduce the frequency by 5/8. Then you could use the KM/h as MPH.
Just use PIC micro instead (with a bit of software).

Mazza   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 12
Joined: Mar 11 2013 10:40pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Mazza » Sep 08 2013 9:21pm

Nice work PJGold. Looks like we're getting somewhere!!! :)

rogerc   1 W

1 W
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 03 2013 8:49pm
Location: Gilroy, California

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by rogerc » Sep 09 2013 7:33pm

Let us know when you get it worked out, I am always looking for more POWER.
RC

User avatar
Supertux1   100 W

100 W
Posts: 183
Joined: Mar 18 2012 11:24am
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Supertux1 » Sep 10 2013 10:29am

I test rode one of these a few weeks ago and enjoyed it, also the Neo City. One of the better full suspension designs that doesn't look like crap.

The thing I don't like about the e-motion line is that the bike is either in an assist ('eco') mode or a throttle mode, but not both at the same time.
(In case you just wanted some regular assist and the option to power up a hill or go a little faster to pass someone.)
I think it's like this because of the laws in their primary markets. (Europe.) Also the battery is a little small for a $3k+ bike.

If I didn't already have a faster, longer range home-made bike I would probably buy it.
My Commuter/Cargo eBike (MAC 10T): http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=51147
My Off-Road eBike (Bafang BBS02 '750W'): http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=61721

FRM70   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 4
Joined: Dec 29 2011 5:11pm

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by FRM70 » Sep 10 2013 4:22pm

Hi all,

I have just ordered a 2014 Neo Jumper bike and I'm told it will hopefully be delivered to the UK in late Nov, it has a bigger battery 12ah and a new smaller
diameter motor and also has the 27.5" wheel size. :D I can't wait.

As I'm new to all this I have a question for anyone who would like to offer advice , if money was no object and I wanted to upgrade this bike to the highest spec possible what would be your recommendations ( excluding battery & motor ) , I'm thinking forks ( the XC32 don't seem to be rated very highly ) can rear suspension by easily upgraded ? I'm thinking how light could I possibly make this electric bike ? , carbon parts , wheels , bars , pedals , seat, stem etc

I know this question is open to many options but I am interested to know what people think would work well on this bike , if I could knock some weight off I think it would be an even better ride.

Thanks

FRM70

User avatar
Supertux1   100 W

100 W
Posts: 183
Joined: Mar 18 2012 11:24am
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Supertux1 » Sep 18 2013 3:40pm

FRM70 wrote:Hi all,

I have just ordered a 2014 Neo Jumper bike and I'm told it will hopefully be delivered to the UK in late Nov, it has a bigger battery 12ah and a new smaller
diameter motor and also has the 27.5" wheel size. :D I can't wait.

As I'm new to all this I have a question for anyone who would like to offer advice , if money was no object and I wanted to upgrade this bike to the highest spec possible what would be your recommendations ( excluding battery & motor ) , I'm thinking forks ( the XC32 don't seem to be rated very highly ) can rear suspension by easily upgraded ? I'm thinking how light could I possibly make this electric bike ? , carbon parts , wheels , bars , pedals , seat, stem etc

I know this question is open to many options but I am interested to know what people think would work well on this bike , if I could knock some weight off I think it would be an even better ride.

Thanks

FRM70
I don't think there's much you'd really want to upgrade on it. Rear suspension is fairly easy, just swap out the shock etc... I say ride it for awhile before you decide you want something replaced. Maybe start with the seat, or perhaps a rack/bag of some sort to store your stuff. How about a nice Kryptonite U-Lock?
My Commuter/Cargo eBike (MAC 10T): http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=51147
My Off-Road eBike (Bafang BBS02 '750W'): http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=61721

Chalega   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Jul 06 2013 6:27pm

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Chalega » Sep 22 2013 10:58pm

Hi guys, I bought the Easy Motion Neo Race..! On the speed bit - the guy who I bought it from said he'd show me a 'trick' and then changed the speed limit to like 35 miles or something right in front of me! He pressed the up and down arrow at the same time I think. I'm quite surprised this has not been discussed here, and also a bit confused. Can someone try this out? Mine's only coming in next week.

User avatar
veloman   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3045
Joined: Sep 14 2009 1:06am
Location: Austin TX

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by veloman » Sep 23 2013 12:08am

Most of the neo line ebikes top out at 25-29mph no load. They aren't limited to 20mph from the manufacturer.
Mush! Mush you electrons! Push harder!

Melbourne   100 W

100 W
Posts: 123
Joined: Jan 19 2013 2:44am
Location: Melb,Aust

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Melbourne » Sep 23 2013 12:48am

Chalega wrote:Hi guys, I bought the Easy Motion Neo Race..! On the speed bit - the guy who I bought it from said he'd show me a 'trick' and then changed the speed limit to like 35 miles or something right in front of me! He pressed the up and down arrow at the same time I think. I'm quite surprised this has not been discussed here, and also a bit confused. Can someone try this out? Mine's only coming in next week.
Tried already on Xtrem/jumper/cross with no luck.
1. BH Neo Xtrem
2. Cellbike Bafang Crank bbs01 36V350W
3. Cannondale Bad Boy bbs02 750W 48v15Ah
Melb,Aust

User avatar
newschoolnerd   1 W

1 W
Posts: 58
Joined: Dec 20 2012 4:51pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by newschoolnerd » Sep 28 2013 8:54am

@Chalega that change does not impact the actual speed. It is intended to calibrate the display to the wheel size. If you try to test it alongside a external speed sensor you will see nothing has changed except for the display. Sorry to say you've been duped.
Owner/Operator of Propel: We work with many brands including Felt, Specialized, Easy Motion, Stromer, Pedego, Currie, eFlow, Haibike, Focus, Kalkoff, Bionx, Bafang and more. Check out our site to learn more Propel

d8veh   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5520
Joined: Dec 10 2010 10:45am
Location: Telford

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by d8veh » Sep 28 2013 5:09pm

I've been talking to a lot of people at the UK Cycle show about the Neos. I'm hearing a lot of reports about minor problems like spokes breaking and motor washers wrongly installed., with very poor customer support. People are being left with their bikes off the road for a long time for these easy to fix problems. Also, the motor washer problem , which has been reported as known fault, is being treated like a surprise each time someone rings them up about it. It seems that the main problem though is with their support system for spare parts.

I don't suppose they read this forum, but if they do: You need to get your act together, BH Emotion. You can do better than that.

Mazza   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 12
Joined: Mar 11 2013 10:40pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Mazza » Sep 29 2013 7:39pm

I can concur there d8veh. One of the rear suspension arm bolts on mine rounded off as I torqued it to specification with the correctly-sized allen socket. It looks like a specially-sized one so I called the dealer where I purchased mine only to be told it has been too hard to source the part (after a few weeks of the dealer looking for one). Sent a strongly-worded email back to the dealer which was forwarded to BH. Finally they came to the party. This sort of stuff (basic fasteners and spare parts) should be available on-hand, at least with the distributor!

EddieJ   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 31
Joined: Jan 26 2013 10:56am

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by EddieJ » Oct 03 2013 1:34pm

d8veh wrote:I've been talking to a lot of people at the UK Cycle show about the Neos. I'm hearing a lot of reports about minor problems like spokes breaking and motor washers wrongly installed., with very poor customer support. People are being left with their bikes off the road for a long time for these easy to fix problems. Also, the motor washer problem , which has been reported as known fault, is being treated like a surprise each time someone rings them up about it. It seems that the main problem though is with their support system for spare parts.

Sadly that could be about to get a lot worse.

Key points when buying a new one. Get the dealer to undo the allen bolts in front of you that would be normally be used to mount a rack etc. Both of my captive nuts spin in the frame. The paint is also not keyed to properly to the frame, so peels off, which is something that becomes plainly obvious if the captive nuts spin, or when the inevitable stone chips happen.

After the length of time that it took to sort my rear wheel bearing out, I can't be arsed to mention either of the above issues. I still love bike enough to be able to forgive these issues and love every second of riding it, so wouldn't hesitate in recommending one.

madz   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Oct 14 2013 12:32am
Location: Kuopio, Finland

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by madz » Oct 14 2013 1:25pm

pjgold wrote:Well guys I finally have cracked it I have in my hands a working speed limit hack for my Neo Cross.
I have had a ride up and down the street with it temporarily connected and it appears to be working fine.

Now I just need to wait for the sockets and plugs to turn up !!
No news on actual speed difference I didn't want to ride it around with it held together with pins and tape.
Have you ordered the same connectors? Where? :) Or are you replacing the connectors with something available.

Any update on your speed limit hack is highly appreciated.
eBike: Factory BH E-Motion Neo Cross, EU 2011
Looking for mods: LCD Operated light, speed unlock

pjgold   100 W

100 W
Posts: 108
Joined: Mar 16 2013 8:54pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by pjgold » Oct 14 2013 5:10pm

No joy on this speed hack unfortunately.
The circuit does half the signal speed which does have an effect on the controller, however not as expected so it does not remove the limit.
I believe that there are multiple speed signal sources at play in the controller.
I am going down the path of just replacing the controller and display, the torque sensors output appears to be the same a a standard throttle signal voltage so I'll see what happen when parts turn up.

madz   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Oct 14 2013 12:32am
Location: Kuopio, Finland

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by madz » Oct 15 2013 12:43am

pjgold wrote:No joy on this speed hack unfortunately.
...
I believe that there are multiple speed signal sources at play in the controller.
I am going down the path of just replacing the controller and display...
Oh too bad, it was to good to be true. Not sure if there is any other speed sensor, wouldn't it just be that the controller limits the max amps to the engine, resulting in less rpm?
Did you get to order a US style controller then? I guess that might be the only thing needed, or are you planning to rip one open?
I noticed only one french website where to order my controller BH-NEO-W3620A type online. Any idea of the difference, do you have the same controller type?

How about the two wire connection that is not-used at the controller? Its feeding 4.6V when I measured with multimeter. Could it be a communication channel, I read somewhere they hooked up a service device, but it would make more sense to me if that would be via the LCD connector.
It would also be nice to figure out how the LCD communicates with the controller, as there is a Bluetooth dongle available to replace the LCD, it would be nice to develop something that intercepts the communication...
eBike: Factory BH E-Motion Neo Cross, EU 2011
Looking for mods: LCD Operated light, speed unlock

Rim21   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 15
Joined: Aug 24 2013 10:01pm

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Rim21 » Oct 28 2013 4:15am

Hi All - new to this forum but am hoping that the technical minds of the many can help me solve the BH Emotion controller question - can a 250w controller be manipulated into giving a 350w output. Note also that I am self-teaching myself micro-controller programming which basically means that I am willing to give things a go but am no expert.

OK with that out of the way I have been looking into making some headway on seeing if I can't manipulate my BH Emotion Cross (2012 version) to think it is a US version through altering the speed signal. I have undertaken pjgolds circuit and alas had the same result - which was a bust. I then switched to using a micro-controller (Arduino) and have managed to capture the signal and and then calibrate it accordingly but............... it becomes unstable as the speed approaches anything above 16kmh :x . The main cause of the instability IMO is the noisy signal - which I haven't measured as I don't have a scope. In order to find a way around this problem I am looking at the solution from 2 angles - hardware and software. From the software perspective I am using a debouncing technique which effects a delay and will only process something if it is greater than this value. So I can get a reliable read at low speeds and only if the debounce is greater than 8 millisecs. Anything lower than this and the Arduino will process the signal but it will also process all the noise spikes leading to speed readings of 40+kmh when it should be a 10th or more of this. From a hardware perspective I am looking at using a comparator (schmitt trigger) with a RC circuit and therefore I need to figure out the time constant.

So my question is really to do with maths - the speed signal is based on 6 pulse reads per revolution so what would the time constants for the range of speeds from say 5kmh through to 38kmh actually be? I have tried working these out but I am coming up with different answers all the time so need some help. What will I do with this maths? I am thinking of changing my code to dynamically change the debounce variable based on a speed profile. It will also help me in selecting the right RC values on the hardware side. Any help with the maths and any other ideas will be appreciated.

To date and as mentioned I can read and manipulate the speed signal using an Arduino. I have the Arduino talking to my phone with the results. I am confident that the calibration of the speed signal works as I am using the 6kmh throttle as a guide (unloaded the BH LCD will read 9kmh and with calibration I have it reading 7kmh - one data point only at this time though). I have also captured the motor hall sensor outputs and have these displaying to my phone.....but I am not sure what manipulation if any I should do to these signals.

d8veh   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5520
Joined: Dec 10 2010 10:45am
Location: Telford

Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by d8veh » Oct 28 2013 6:28pm

Rim21 wrote:Hi All - new to this forum but am hoping that the technical minds of the many can help me solve the BH Emotion controller question - can a 250w controller be manipulated into giving a 350w output. Note also that I am self-teaching myself micro-controller programming which basically means that I am willing to give things a go but am no expert.
Your controller's power rating is pretty meaningless. My guess is that it's set to about 20amps, which is 800w through it. For other controllers, you can increase the current by up to 50%, and or feed it a higher voltage, both of which will make it pass more current. Most controllers' watt rating is related to its heat making and shedding ability, but yours is probably under-rated for legal reasons. That's if it has a rating written on it.

Post Reply