Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Melbourne   100 W

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Melbourne » Oct 28 2013 7:31pm

d8veh wrote:
Rim21 wrote:Hi All - new to this forum but am hoping that the technical minds of the many can help me solve the BH Emotion controller question - can a 250w controller be manipulated into giving a 350w output. Note also that I am self-teaching myself micro-controller programming which basically means that I am willing to give things a go but am no expert.
Your controller's power rating is pretty meaningless. My guess is that it's set to about 20amps, which is 800w through it. For other controllers, you can increase the current by up to 50%, and or feed it a higher voltage, both of which will make it pass more current. Most controllers' watt rating is related to its heat making and shedding ability, but yours is probably under-rated for legal reasons. That's if it has a rating written on it.
One solution is to installed Bafang Crank-drives 350w36v.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... &start=400

One guy in the France forum installed one on this jumper... and its working for him.
1. BH Neo Xtrem
2. Cellbike Bafang Crank bbs01 36V350W
3. Cannondale Bad Boy bbs02 750W 48v15Ah
Melb,Aust

Rim21   1 mW

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Rim21 » Oct 29 2013 1:52am

d8veh wrote:
Rim21 wrote:Hi All - new to this forum but am hoping that the technical minds of the many can help me solve the BH Emotion controller question - can a 250w controller be manipulated into giving a 350w output. Note also that I am self-teaching myself micro-controller programming which basically means that I am willing to give things a go but am no expert.
Your controller's power rating is pretty meaningless. My guess is that it's set to about 20amps, which is 800w through it. For other controllers, you can increase the current by up to 50%, and or feed it a higher voltage, both of which will make it pass more current. Most controllers' watt rating is related to its heat making and shedding ability, but yours is probably under-rated for legal reasons. That's if it has a rating written on it.
Oh I agree with your statements - I was making a poor attempt at saying I was on the hunt for a conversion of a EURO specced BH NEO to a US specced.

So today I went riding with my mod-circuit interfaced to the BH Neo's speed signal and with this signal calibrated at 80%. Everything started off OK with the BH Neo's LCd showing a couple of kmh less than what it should be. But as soon as I applied pedal power and the motor really took hold the LCD speed readings went haywire (full scale to 60kmh). The motor strangely seemed to perform as though this wasn't a problem but alas I didn't have my phone circuit hooked up so I couldn't get an actual reading of when the motor cuts out.

On a traditional eBike controller what type of circuit does a speed signal enter? Any type of smoothing RC circuit?

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by d8veh » Oct 29 2013 4:11am

Have you got a pull-up resistor on the hall signal?

Rim21   1 mW

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Rim21 » Oct 29 2013 1:53pm

d8veh wrote:Have you got a pull-up resistor on the hall signal?
Yep I have a 10k with a 104 cap going to a schmitt trigger - from a quick calculation this should give me a time constant of 1 millisec.

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Rim21 » Nov 03 2013 9:37pm

So this will be an incremental update to the BHNeo (Cross 2012 EU model in my case) with respect to what I am finding out about the speed signal coming off the motor (white wire). I am using a Gabotronics xproto portable scope (nice features, cheap and I can ride with it) and until I broke my OTG cable to my phone I was using a Scope App for a larger screen (really missed this feature on my final 3 tests - reading off a 1.3cm screen is tough).

Anyway my prelim results are: at the walk throttle speed of 8-9kmh I am measuring 6.1mS to 6.4mS and a nicely shaped squarish wave at about 6vdc (I am skeptical of the amplitude but am reporting for completness).

In motion and at 27.2kmh I got an ugly waveform with triggers going from 0.6 through to 2.8mS and the highest amplitude of 10vdc. I did a retest at 28kmh and got a more consistent read of 1.1 to 1.7mS but still an ugly waveform. What was of interest to me with this waveform was that there were high peakes (the 10vdc) and low peaks (around 3.4vdc) and between the two highs were another two low peaks which equated to around 1.8mS per pulse.

In motion until motor cut out (audible reference) which was 30.7kmh I got a nice clean waveform again with a consistent read of 1.6 to 1.7mS and 5.4vdc. I could also see a nice transition from ugly to clean waveform at this speed.

So this suggests to me that efforts to date in altering the frequency of the wave is not being successful because the devices used are measuring all the transient spikes on the waveforms. So the trick is to now figure out a way to get a consistent read under load, in motion with the motor on.

I'll take any suggestions from the members - note I plan to use an Arduino to manipulate the speed signal.

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Rim21 » Nov 16 2013 7:29pm

OK finally got some time to test with an Arduino and the BH Neo speed signal. So far I have calibrated the speed signal from 90%, 80% and 50% with no performance increase - so it looks like I am confirming PJs original attempts that adjusting the speed signal doesn't affect the Euro speced versions. Mind you it was only today that I managed to get a stable circuit - added a 5.1vdc zener diode and a 22ohm series resistor to the input signal and now I don't get those bouncy readings. I will now look at the other parameters that I could adjust but this is going to take me longer to figure out.

On a small positive I guess at least I have created a small BH Neo LCD speed calibration circuit :|

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Mazza » Nov 20 2013 12:10am

Thanks to all of those researching how to get a higher top assisted speed out of these bikes. I just don't know why they (BH & the lawmakers) have to make it so hard for us! Why can we not have an 'off road only' option which unlocks a higher top speed? IIRC the US has a 25mph top assisted speed (around 40km/h). That would be perfect. I wouldn't mind losing battery quicker as I still have 2 - 3 bars left when I arrive home. Having 1 - 2 bars left wouldn't be an issue if I could cruise at 40!

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Rim21 » Nov 23 2013 11:15pm

Here is a logic analyser screenshot of my BH Neo Cross whilst using the 'throttle' and the LCD reading 9.0kmh unloaded. The 1st trace is the speed signal (wht wire). The 2nd, 3rd and 4th trace are the hall sensor signals. All signals are taken from the 6 pin connector. To date I have manipulated the speed signal which doesn't appear to influence the performance - unless you get the signal so out of whack then the motor struggles.

Image

From the information supplied I am thinking of now manipulating the 3 hall signals but I wouldn't mind understanding a bit more about what the controller does with these signals. Can anyone refer me to some good references?

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Hillhater » Nov 24 2013 9:56pm

Are you are wasting your time and the motor is maxed out anyway ?
I think it would be wise for someone to try a simple bypass using cheap chinese motor controller to override all these fancy controls, and just see exactly how fast this motor/36v battery combo would go when someone actually manages to mod the OEM controller.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Rim21 » Nov 25 2013 12:14am

Hillhater wrote:Are you are wasting your time and the motor is maxed out anyway ?
I think it would be wise for someone to try a simple bypass using cheap chinese motor controller to override all these fancy controls, and just see exactly how fast this motor/36v battery combo would go when someone actually manages to mod the OEM controller.
Good question. The only guiding principle I am working to is the fact that the motor appears to be the same variant to the US version and the US version is set to higher parameters. May be barking up the wrong tree but wont know until I discount the path to madness I am on :cool:

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Hillhater » Nov 25 2013 12:52am

Rim21 wrote: I am working to is the fact that the motor appears to be the same variant to the US version and the US version is set to higher parameters.
Is it. ?
.from this USA review ...http://www.electricbike.com/easy-motion-jumper
..In throttle-only mode I was able to get 17-MPH top speed without pedaling on level ground, and I am a 190 pound rider. So to get over 20-MPH you will have to pedal hard. I noticed when climbing any type of hill, the bike really bogs down.
What other info do we have re the performance of the USA version. ?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Rim21 » Nov 25 2013 1:03pm

Hillhater wrote:
What other info do we have re the performance of the USA version. ?
There is an AUS forum on whirlpool and a couple of the US members have provided some of there riding measurements which indicate that the US version can achieve 35km+. That's the reference that I am using.

For me I am still a couple of weekends away from completing the coding and circuit and am interested in understanding a little fuller the effect the hall and speed sensor signals have on a controller, hence the question of a good reference for controller workings :)

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Hillhater » Nov 25 2013 6:37pm

There is also an Aussie guy on another forum stating he can reach 48km/hr with the motor still assisting ?
So it difficult to get any real solid info !
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electri ... post159804
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Rim21 » Nov 25 2013 7:41pm

Hillhater wrote:There is also an Aussie guy on another forum stating he can reach 48km/hr with the motor still assisting ?
So it difficult to get any real solid info !
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electri ... post159804
Yep agreed - so I have only my time to lose I guess. Seems like you are well versed in eBikes, got any tips?:)

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Hillhater » Nov 25 2013 10:34pm

I am from the "K.I.S.S." camp.
so if it were me, i would first do that simple test with a known unrestricted controller to see how much extra speed there is available... before i spent time finding possible mods for the "Sealed" controller.
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by d8veh » Nov 26 2013 4:44am

I think someone needs to try one with a different controller to establish what the motor's capable of. It's complicated by the fact that there's different versions of the motor, which might look the same from the outide, but can have different windins. Also, there's two different motors. They started with the Bafang BPM, but now seem to be using Dapus.

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by pjgold » Nov 29 2013 7:20am

d8veh wrote:I think someone needs to try one with a different controller to establish what the motor's capable of. It's complicated by the fact that there's different versions of the motor, which might look the same from the outide, but can have different windins. Also, there's two different motors. They started with the Bafang BPM, but now seem to be using Dapus
I think getting more speed out the e-motion is a bust, tonight I plugged in a BMS S06S controller with a S-LCD1 display and a throttle.
All the wiring is a match for colour coding though I did have change the plugs on the controller to match the bike. I was even able to use the internal speed sensor feed from the hub the white wire.

My bike is one of the early ones and has a Bafang CST motor on it.

The free wheel speed at full throttle with the new controller is 35 kph.
I will take it for a ride in the morning but I'm pretty sure under load its going to max out at surprise surprise about 32ish

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by pjgold » Nov 30 2013 3:41am

No surprises today with an on road test top speed came in at 33 kph, peak amps were 16A which is a little lower but maximum for the S06S controller.

This is the same speed I get with a fully charged battery and a stock bike.

I did learn however that I don't like using a throttle and I can report the the sine wave controller does make the bike fair amount quieter.

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