Dual rear wheel fabrication

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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koonaone   1 mW

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Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by koonaone » Jan 30 2013 3:41pm

Hi Folks

I have a heavy framed bike (out in the snow) that I wish to power with a Non-hub Motor, mid Drive. It would be entirely possible for me to stretch the rear "forks" wide enough to take 2 wheels instead of one. A dually. to take more weight.

I have never seen such a thing, but why not? Have any of you, clearly more experienced folks, fabricated or bought, or even heard of a dually for a bicycle?

Driving dual wheeled trucks on back roads will ocassionaly pick up a boulder back there, a chain tied to a tree pulls them out but it's something to think about.
I look forward to replies.
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MattyCiii   100 kW

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by MattyCiii » Jan 30 2013 4:01pm

Given that trucks don't lean into corners like bikes do, the increase in capacity from two rear wheels won't likely be a good trade off to the strange handling.

People - myself included - have made super tough wheels by using motorcycle tires and rims on bike hubs. Makes for a bike that rides like a motorcycle - in both the worst and best ways you can interpret that.

I think the real bicycle gurus will chime in here but - even moto rims/tires are overkill. High quality bike parts - a nice strong and rigid rim, quality hub and spokes can carry very heavy loads. For those times you carry a boulder, ride slower and avoid bumps :D
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2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by wesnewell » Jan 30 2013 4:10pm

Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
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koonaone   1 mW

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by koonaone » Jan 30 2013 9:35pm

Thanks for the replies

@MattyCiii,
[[ > Given that trucks don't lean into corners like bikes do, the increase in capacity from two rear wheels won't likely be a good trade off to the strange handling.]]
I can't drive my civic anymore because of my eyes. I can however still handle a couple hours biking it at 5 to 15 mph on a nicely paved highway with a 7 foot wide pullover lane to go get my supplies. And, nobody will be bugging me for my license, or eye exams and such. I don't really have any square corners in life that I have to take at speed. But you are right, one beefed up tire would be better.

@wesnewell , wow, I see what you're getting at. Pricey aren't they but not that bad. That's all it took to get me motivated, the bikes on the porch thawing out and by tomorrow chicken feeding time I'll know rim size and what tire size is on there (slashed). It is a Norco built sturdier than you commonly see around anymore, 22.5 " rims, about 1.75" wide and the rear wheel hub is 16 inches behind the saddle post.

I know about, and lust after, modern $$ batteries, but 12VDC deep cycle rv batteries are part of my scene here for lights, music, computers, fans, alternators, boat motors, you name it, all mostly free, I would buy 2 new ones for this though. ($160) They weigh in at about 60 - 70 pounds each though and I either need a bike that will pack them and me (200lb), or build a trailer. I will eventually build one, when my pension allows, to pack my 5hp brigs and straton 16V alternator setup that I use on the canoe on longer trips. for now though I'd like to be able to make it about 6 flat highway miles to town, and back too, 1 moderate, short hill. So i figure 2 batteries to keep from running them down too much without the charger on board.

This is just what I need, I've had it with living alone in winter already this year and I can do the bike in the living room. Or the unused bedroom, while I watch my baby tomatoes grow. It will get me off the net for a change.

Thanks very much for the replies. I'm motivated.

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. . >Oo> - - - douglas
........./

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by MattyCiii » Jan 30 2013 10:10pm

No shame in using lead. Electrons are electrons, they'll get you where you're going. :D
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.

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chisixer6   1 kW

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by chisixer6 » Jan 30 2013 11:35pm

Years ago, I read of the Iditrod race in Alaska, some of bikes had dual rims laced together to use one wide tire, to travel on deep snow. I don't know how they laced it, of course that before they had the wide rims.
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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by amberwolf » Jan 31 2013 5:57am

I pondered doing this for CrazyBIke2 (should be a blog post about it on http://electricle.blogspot.com ), and discussed it over on Freakbikenation forums (cant' find the thread now though), probably also here on ES in my Crazybike2 thread.
(edit: found the blog posts:
http://electricle.blogspot.com/2009/09/ ... heels.html
http://electricle.blogspot.com/2009/12/ ... mk-ii.html

Never got around to it, but I was going to do it by spot-welding two steel rims side-by-side, cutting a hub in half and extending it with tubing, and doing the same with the axle.

Then lace the left flange to the left rim and right flange to right rim.

Was planning on using two tubes and two tires at first, then thought about using a single extra-wide tire (3-4") with two tubes in there, and an old tube glued over the welded-together rim edges, possibly even grinding down those to just a nub ridge just for weld strength. The single tire would give a much less funky turning performance.

A while back I got some wide motorcycle tires and have been considering finding a pair of steel rims the right diameter to do this with for them. They're so thick and stiff-walled that they'd hold the bike up rideably even without air or tubes in them. :lol: Wouldn't perform very well, but it'd get me home!


So far just haven't had the parts, time, and energy and capability to do it all at the same time (like most of my ideas).
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boostjuice   10 kW

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by boostjuice » Jan 31 2013 6:40am

If you can afford to drop the coin on it you could be the first person to electrify one of these.

Image
Image

http://knstrct.com/2011/01/10/ktrak-the ... new-sport/

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boostjuice   10 kW

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by boostjuice » Jan 31 2013 6:41am

It seems someone has already done it with a petrol kit.

Image

Actually, electric has been done already too.

Image

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by koonaone » Jan 31 2013 2:07pm

@boostjuice
- Wow, then I could ski down the lake to the pub. Check my setlines on the way, put em in a smoker, eatem on the way back. Mmmm, Hot rums and fresh smoked Kokanee and whitefish. Those are some machines, I want one. That's a case where wider is gooder.

Hmm, now i'm hypotensisizing a paddlewheel for summer. Shoot, why not a hovercraft for bad ice.
Hm Hm Hm. Made my day.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by Chalo » Jan 31 2013 2:46pm

Dual rims and tires are established practice for snowbikes (to provide flotation and traction on soft, loose surfaces), but are much less relevant now that there are very wide rims and tires available.

Here's a twenty-year-old example:
Image

Here's a triple rear wheel:
Image

Weinmann now makes affordable double-walled rims in 65mm, 80mm, and 100mm widths. There are several 26 x 3.7" to 4.0" tires available, and even one 26 x 4.7" tire from Surly. If you can't do a task with a bicycle that has those on it, you probably can't do it with dual wheels either.

Image

When you lean a dual wheeled bike, the weight is applied to just one side, so each wheel must be capable of supporting the load by itself. That makes an extra-big single rim better for heavy loads.

Trikes are a somewhat different matter, because they don't lean. So you can use wide dual wheels if it helps. I used dual wheelbarrow wheels on a trike and trailer rig I built (four on the trike rear axle and four on the trailer axle), with which I have hauled 3200 pound gross weight loads.

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by full-throttle » Jan 31 2013 7:24pm

boostjuice wrote:If you can afford to drop the coin on it you could be the first person to electrify one of these.
iperov wrote:I trashed ktrak bcuz it suxx in all parameters

/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45740&start=105#p690599

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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by AussieJester » Jan 31 2013 7:29pm

Check ratrodbikes forums youll find examples of how to lace two rims to one hub but
as Chalo has said, no need with the extra wide rims now avaialble. Choppersus sell
upto 4in wide rims now, i actually have run them on the rear of trikes and two of my two wheel cruisers.

KiM

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Re: Dual rear wheel fabrication

Post by rocwandrer » Feb 08 2013 6:08pm

I have some experience with almost everything posted to this thread thus far (except the tracked/ski bike, which by most accounts is poorly thought out garbage).

Is the goal just more load capacity? What is the failure you are trying to avoid? What is the application you want to build?

There are now a good dozen 559 standard (26")tires bigger than 3.7" wide. These are all some combination of way too expensive for their quality level, because of high demand and small volume production. I own 10 such tires (5 different casings/treads), and lust after the new studded ones (dillinger), and the front rear pair of 4.8" wide, 7mm lug ones (Bud and Lou). These are great things for a lot of reasons, but I'm not sure load capacity to failure is one of them.

I've done the dual rim single tire thing a long time ago when 29mm was the widest bike rim you could get. You basically have to cut the middle two rim walls out. Mounting the tire and getting tubes in without pinching them is near impossible, iirc. I've also done dual tires. The result works much better than a single tire on semi packed snow, provided that you lean your body and not the bike in corners, and are willing to live with handling that typically makes most people inclined to get off and figure out what has gone wrong or walk rather than keep riding.

Some of the better quality free ride rims and tires offer as a side effect of their intended use parts that will work under very high loads at higher speeds and/or at lower pressures without issue compared to standard issue high quality mtb stuff. Unless you need a DOT stamp, I have a hard time seeing needing moped/motorcycle parts on anything short of a full blown electric motorcycle, though it may well be the easy button for some people.
First ebike project - Juggernaut: 30x4.5-ish tires, Q100 rear hub in the front fork, KU63 shaved to ~8 amps, 4.4 Ah 12s LiFePo4

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