Establishing Legal Ebikes in Hawaii

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Establishing Legal Ebikes in Hawaii

Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 10 2007 9:31pm

This new ebike may be the one to show State Legislatures to include as a Legal Bicycle unsteas of just "Human powered Only" bicycles to be the only legal bicycles in Hawaii.
Once the laws are changed back to 1400 watts of power Max to the road This may be a great ebike platform to upgrade for steep hills and long run times at a decent speed without doing any pedaling if the rider wishes.
A lighter motor and battery system with possibably 10% better efficiency overall could be a viable product in Hawaii if ebikes become legal again.If they don't it's just a matter of time before a cop takes my ebike.


http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=ecyclemaui


http://motorino-btr-ebike.blogspot.com/ ... %20reviews
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TylerDurden   100 GW

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Post by TylerDurden » Mar 10 2007 10:50pm

Cool Vids Dude...

I was considering the viability of ebikes in Kauai, but I figured the hills might be a serious issue. I guess enough lipo makes many things possible.

Silly to have ebikes regulated like mopeds, hope that gets changed. (I'm not a HI resident, so my vote won't count.) Some flashy bikes might get the message across that the trend has prestige as well as value.

In the meantime, you might camouflage the high-tech elements of your bike. I'm partial to pokemon and hello kitty stickers... cops would be too embarrased to be seen pulling you over.


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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 11 2007 6:40pm

TylerDurden wrote:Cool Vids Dude...

I was considering the viability of ebikes in Kauai, but I figured the hills might be a serious issue. I guess enough lipo makes many things possible.

Silly to have ebikes regulated like mopeds, hope that gets changed. (I'm not a HI resident, so my vote won't count.) Some flashy bikes might get the message across that the trend has prestige as well as value.

In the meantime, you might camouflage the high-tech elements of your bike. I'm partial to pokemon and hello kitty stickers... cops would be too embarrased to be seen pulling you over.


8)
Its not JUST the batteries that make a difference. In all the videos I am using less than 6 amp hours on complete round trips with vary little pedaling.Except for the Volcano climb to 10,005 ft in elevation.I used four 20 lb Evercels on that trip, using 33 amp hours at 48 volts up and down Haleakala Volcano for a total of 72 miles.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=ecyclemaui
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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 11 2007 6:53pm

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Reid Welch   10 MW

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Post by Reid Welch » Mar 11 2007 9:47pm

Nice to see you aboard, Randy.

It's a new day.
Let it be sunny and warm,
but never flamin' hot

if you know what I mean, ha ha.

Glad you are here,

Reid



now where's that deaf guy who cannot read?
:wink:

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 12 2007 2:35pm

Hi Reid, thanks! "Flaming Hot" Is not a good design ! But a good design can be a "Flaming Hot Topic" Since there i s NOW a NEW complete ebike finally on the market with a style reaching into Moped territory , but is still considered a legal bicycle in most places.This ebike does have the saftey designs of a motorcycle and is styled like what I had invisioned to go with my chain drive motor system many years ago.It may be a reality YET to combine such a drive system instead of the hub motor for a lighter more efficient ebike= exlent styling, lighter, with even better all around performance in ALL conditions for a larger range of uses with a LRGER range of people being able to adjust speeds, torque and ratios vary easily combined with less costs of a complete product with many slectionn options in Voltage,Drive types,Power,performance , Costs and weight for each type of system and amount of batteries.Try to keep it down to a simmer and this topic can educate a few people here.. I'm filling in a few State Legislatures here since ebikes of ANY kind are ILEGAL in the State of Hawaii.
Aloha! Randy~
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fechter   100 GW

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Post by fechter » Mar 12 2007 3:04pm

which bike is that?

I thought ebikes were OK in HI as long as they have pedals and are under 750w.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 12 2007 8:21pm

fechter wrote:which bike is that?

I thought ebikes were OK in HI as long as they have pedals and are under 750w.
All bicycles in Hawaii need to be registered as Human power only.The Segway and Mopeds are motorized vehicles in which a motorized bicycle fails to meet the requirements of such.
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lemmiwinks   100 W

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Post by lemmiwinks » Mar 12 2007 10:13pm

EbikeMaui wrote:All bicycles in Hawaii need to be registered as Human power only.
You have a bicycle registration scheme in Hawaii?

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 13 2007 3:09am

lemmiwinks wrote:
EbikeMaui wrote:All bicycles in Hawaii need to be registered as Human power only.
You have a bicycle registration scheme in Hawaii?
http://tinyurl.com/2b87yr
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fechter   100 GW

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Post by fechter » Mar 13 2007 9:24am

That sucks.

You should try to get them to adopt the Calif. laws, or even a higher power limit.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 13 2007 5:32pm

fechter wrote:That sucks.

You should try to get them to adopt the Calif. laws, or even a higher power limit.
The ebike law for ebikes in Hawaii before 2003 was 1499 watts of brake horsepower to the road.The speed limit was the posted speed of the roadway.Since I registerd my ebike in 2002 as a bicycle it may still legal ?
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Reid Welch   10 MW

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Post by Reid Welch » Mar 13 2007 5:43pm

Florida is surprisingly lenient with these things.
Fl. law decoded by a pro-bono lawyer

All I need to operate my bike at over the national 20mph ebike speed limit, is my driver license.

Likewise, mopeds only require a driver license.

Neither bike nor moped nor scooter require signals nor mirrors nor insurance, etc,
so long as not operated over 30mph, or exceed the hp. limit for scooters.

in which case they are considered motorcycles, which require a driver license and mirrors, lights, and eye protection.

Our state repealed helmet laws a few years ago.

Even motorcycles need no insurance; however, the law reminds that motorcyclists are liable for damages they cause.

))of course, if the helmetless cyclist gets brainbonked and can't pay for the dent his head made in a Hummer,
well, the State is required to pay for forty years of full time vegetable farming((

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lemmiwinks   100 W

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Post by lemmiwinks » Mar 13 2007 6:33pm

Didn't see anything in there about a bicycle registration scheme. You said
EbikeMaui wrote:All bicycles in Hawaii need to be registered as Human power only.
Requiring a bicycle which by law is considered to be a moped to be registered is nothing unusual. Requiring a bicycle to be registered as "human power only" would be though.

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fechter   100 GW

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Post by fechter » Mar 13 2007 6:42pm

EbikeMaui wrote: The ebike law for ebikes in Hawaii before 2003 was 1499 watts of brake horsepower to the road.The speed limit was the posted speed of the roadway.Since I registerd my ebike in 2002 as a bicycle it may still legal ?
I didn't realize they changed the law. Keep after them to change it.

In CA, if I really wanted to be legal, I'd need a moped plate. It's a one time fee of something like $5 and no insurance is required. I didn't bother, since the stock version of my scooter is considered an e-bike. So far, I've never been pulled over by the cops. I think they have more important things to worry about.

You should post some pictures of your bike here.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 14 2007 3:14pm

Attachments
Electric Bike.jpg
Electric Bike.jpg (76.68 KiB) Viewed 3224 times
Ebike1.jpg
Ebike1.jpg (25.26 KiB) Viewed 3221 times
LithiumBike.jpg
LithiumBike.jpg (26.58 KiB) Viewed 3222 times
LongRangEbikes.jpg
LongRangEbikes.jpg (317.5 KiB) Viewed 1404 times
Last edited by EbikeMaui on Apr 03 2007 1:55am, edited 1 time in total.
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Reid Welch   10 MW

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Post by Reid Welch » Mar 14 2007 5:06pm

I like your plans, Randy. You've thought this out for years.

In particular:
Image

That's your concept frame, yes? I think so.

It looks ideal. Lipoly for the brave would offer a tremendous range and power, eh? Easy to fit packs there instead of SLA, as you know.

Most interesting to me (it's all intersting), is your adaptation of an extra freewheel to the hub transmission.
That single stage reduction via oversize wheelring makes it quiet and more efficient than any planetary or spur gear reduction
(my cheapie Unite MY 1018 is a spur gear reduction)

How can I make or get a hub modified like your design?

My want: to keep my present Currie cruiser, to have changable gearing,
to have the e-drive through the changable gearing. To have ability to climb steep grades without lugging. To go on the level at 25+ (can do this already with 36V), to increase overall electrical efficiency (would need a BL motor, but a small one for Currie-position mounting on the right side.


Suggestions here or by PM?

Thanks for your sharing. The spaceframe bike is good looking.
That's important to many people. Bikes all decked out with boxes and cables and crapola we presently need, are not easy on most people's eyes.

I would like to keep my bike "nice" looking.
Your system would not spoil the looks of my bike.


Thanks,
r.

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 14 2007 7:34pm

To get a protected mortor with torque a slim / wide od pancake workes better to mount than long cans.BLDC disk motors are nice! For about $200. you could get a nice one from John ( the designer of Etek and B&S motors) who Now makes his own in China. The extra power to 5 KW is programable with regen breaking on this Sevcon controller.You cant beat the Price for the power and quality.John also has many smaller motors.
The My brushed motors had a nice slection as well for getting lots of troque in a single recuction for a good price as well.
When you pay just a bit more for a bit more efficiient motor your battery cost per mile will save up you up to 20% less with brushless motors of good quality and efficiency..
http://www.marselectricllc.com/assets/M ... ited_3.gif
http://www.electricross.com/
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fechter   100 GW

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Post by fechter » Mar 14 2007 10:06pm

Hmmm...
Randy's design looks very similar to the Voloci, only with pedals.
Pedals makes it legal almost everywhere. The Voloci was a very good design and worth duplicating.
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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 14 2007 11:40pm

Using the swingarm for the motor mount a tenisoner is not required.Instead the slower moving pedal chain has one.This is a great frame design to use skins to mold it into many styles of a bike(like the Yahama moped) or to make storage space.
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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 15 2007 7:19pm

EbikeMaui wrote:Using the swingarm for the motor mount a tenisoner is not required.Instead the slower moving pedal chain has one.This is a great frame design to use skins to mold it into many styles of a bike(like the Yahama moped) or to make storage space.
Add a chainless pedal drive and paint a sprocket on my motor... It would apear to be a regular bike if you can hide a small Kokam Ebike/Wheelchair pack. This whole system would be the most usefull to most people but right now the cost would be high.= $2000. for a complete a long range( 40 to 60 lb ebikes) = 50 to 100 mile ranges with no pedaling or with pedaling as much as you like to..A swingarm pivot would need to be mounted on the OD of the Crank Shaft housing ,(A large bearing on each side of the bottom bracket) Spicer Gears also makes a cable/Beval gear pedal system for two or 1 wheel drive mountain bikes that can be used inplace of a drive shaft and the pivot point being exact with the bottom bracket centerline..
http://www.kokamamerica.com/kokam_catalog.pdf http://www.dynamicbicycles.com/Animatio ... popup.html
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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 18 2007 9:49am

A more efficient Drive with 3 speeds.25 mph in 5 seconds in 2nd gear.
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Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh   10 MW

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Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Mar 19 2007 12:17pm

fechter wrote:Hmmm...
Randy's design looks very similar to the Voloci, only with pedals.
Pedals makes it legal almost everywhere. The Voloci was a very good design and worth duplicating.
Same thing occurred to me, in particular the arrangement of the seat tubes.
However the battery tub(ular frame) arrangement reminded me a little like the Powabyke or the Global Strong that CTC sells by the seashore.

<A HREF="http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/produ ... 5020"><IMG SRC="http://endless-sphere.com/forums/files/gseb_010_147.jpg" ALT="Global Strong GTS-210"></A>
Kick down the barricades Listen what the kids say.
From time to time people change their minds But the Frock is here to stay.
I've seen it all from the bottom to the top Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.
Around the world or around the block Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Mar 19 2007 1:25pm

Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh wrote:
fechter wrote:Hmmm...
Randy's design looks very similar to the Voloci, only with pedals.
Pedals makes it legal almost everywhere. The Voloci was a very good design and worth duplicating.
Same thing occurred to me, in particular the arrangement of the seat tubes.
However the battery tub(ular frame) arrangement reminded me a little like the Powabyke or the Global Strong that CTC sells by the seashore.

<A HREF="http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/produ ... 5020"><IMG SRC="http://endless-sphere.com/forums/files/gseb_010_147.jpg" ALT="Global Strong GTS-210"></A>
There are many bicycle frames that will support a 5 lb motor with a 7 lb lithium pack for 30 mile ranges.A bicycle with a frame that supports four 7 lb packs will get you up to a 100 mile range per charge without pedaling, but not with a hub motor unless you pedal hard.I'm still waiting to see a hub motor ebike video with 20 mph average speed for 1 hour on a round trip with no pedaling using less tha 6 amp hours of battery power from 36 to 72 volts..
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=ecyclemaui
Attachments
LithiumBike.jpg
Efficient 1 HP motors with chain drives ARE worth duplicating.Hub motors are just convient to slap on.
LithiumBike.jpg (26.58 KiB) Viewed 3048 times
Last edited by EbikeMaui on Mar 19 2007 1:52pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ypedal » Mar 19 2007 1:28pm

you want that video with 6 ah at what voltage ?

And define " Round trip "..

30 minutes one way.. and 30 minutes back home for total of 1 hr ?
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