Brushless Geared hubmotors: BIG list & details

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Miles   100 GW

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Brushless Geared hubmotors: BIG list & details

Post by Miles » Apr 21 2007 3:28pm

This first post is under construction as an index. Each motor will have a concise paragraph with common name, basic details, and links to threads with more detailed information for each. Discussion and suggestions may continue to be added to the end of the thread.

Unless otherwise stated, all listed geared hub motors below are brushless, have a disc brake flange on the left, they use an approximately 5:1 geared reduction, they have a threaded freewheel flange on the right, and the wires exit a hollow axle on the left.
_____________________

These top two have a 22mm wide stator (135mm diameter), and are widely regarded as the most powerful available.
MAC
BMC

The eZee and BPM have a 17mm wide stator (130mm diameter), and are popular as a mid-powered choice.
eZee
Bafang BPM2
Bafang BPM
Bafang CST

_____________________

I will try to organize the order of the motors below according to approximate size, the listed order may change over time as details are identified. The names below are generally from the smaller end of the physical size scale. Many parts of Europe and Asia have low power limits (250W is often cited) so, there is a lot of selection and innovation in this size class.


XOFO
Xiongda 2-speed
Q128H
ebikekit
Conhis
MXUS
Fusin
Bafang SWXH
Bafang SWXK
Cute Q100H
Outrider
Heinzmann
Tongxin
Ananda
MBG
Q85H
Bafang SWXU
Q75
Keyde
________________________________________________________
SpokeLacing2.png
The spoke Pitch Circle Diameter (PCD) is a rough indication of the hub outer diameter, but does not provide an accurate indication of the internal stator size or power potential.
SpokeLacing2.png (53.7 KiB) Viewed 15079 times
________________________________________________________
MAC
spoke pitch circle diameter is 172mm.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 16&t=51310
The most often cited vendor is Paul @ http://em3ev.com/store/
laminations are 0.35mm thick (As of summer of 2014)
stator is 22mm thick, 135mm diameter
Magnets: 32
Poles: 36
Kv is available as 6T, 7T, 8T, 10T, 12T

_____________________
BMC
spoke pitch circle diameter is 172mm.
The most often cited vendor is Ilia @ http://www.ebikessf.com
laminations are 0.35mm thick
stator is 22mm thick, 135mm diameter
Magnets: 32
Poles: 36
Kv is available as 8T, 10T (called speed and torque)
_____________________
eZee
spoke pitch circle diameter is 172mm
The most often cited vendor is Justin @ http://www.ebikes.ca/
laminations are 0.35mm thick
stator is 17mm thick, 130mm diameter
_____________________
BPM2
The disc-brake-side spokes have a PCD of 171mm, and the sprocket side are 168mm
This unit has a sideplate that must be unscrewed for access to the internals, which requires a special tool.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=62777
_____________________

Bafang BPM
spoke pitch circle diameter is 168mm
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 16&t=51237
laminations are 0.50mm thick
Stator is 17mm thick, 130mm diameter
magnets:16
poles: 18
Kv available in 9 versions, 8T to 16T
_____________________
Bafang CST
spoke pitch circle diameter 164mm
Reported to be identical to the BPM, but fitted with a cassette freehub
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 50#p810105
http://ecopedelec.com/pic/other/2012-07 ... 18-336.jpg
_____________________
XOFO (cassette freehub)
spoke pitch circle diameter:______
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 08#p705884
This motor has an integrated torque-sensor inside the motor-shell.
Laminations are 0.50mm thick.
Stator is 20mm wide, and 104mm in diameter
magnets: 20
poles: 18
_____________________
Xiongda 2-speed
spoke pitch circle diameter: 121mm
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=58490
This motor has two internal gear-sets, and by reversing the internal motor on the fly, the motor is provided with two gears that it uses to propel the wheel. Using 46V in a 26-inch tire provides 22-kph in low, and 36-kph in high gear (14-MPH and 22-MPH)
The stator width and diameter is 17mm X 96mm

_____________________
Q128H
spoke pitch circle diameter is 128mm
Available in two Kv's
No disc brake flange
http://www.bmsbattery.com/rear-driving/ ... e-kit.html

Ykick has one at 16S voltage http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 50#p891603
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=74945&p=1131640#p1131567
_____________________
ebikekit
ES senior member dogman is a customer service rep for http://www.ebikekit.com/
_____________________
Conhis
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=439
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 50#p939995
cassette freehub
Stator diameter: 114mm
Stator width: 21mm
Lamination thickness: 0.50mm
magnets: 20
poles: 18
_____________________
MXUS
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
As of 2014, the new small MXUS geared hub has a cassette freehub, and the geared reduction uses helical gears (which should run very quietly)
_____________________
Fusin
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
_____________________
Bafang SWXH
spoke pitch circle diameter: 120mm
http://www.greenbikekit.com/catalog/pro ... image/256/
This unit has a sideplate that must be unscrewed to access the internals, which is difficult and requires a special tool.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 17#p732717
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 25#p154389
The small hub from Ampedbikes appears to be identical to the SWXH
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 39#p926939
_____________________
Bafang SWXK (SWXK5 is better for a disc brake)
spoke pitch circle diameter is 121mm
4.7-Kv (170-RPM @ 36V)
http://daniel.weck.free.fr/BromptonBafa ... G_3818.jpg
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/downlo ... p?id=55353
This 350W front-only hub locates its wire exit in the side plate on the right, as opposed to the common route through a hollow axle.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads ... otos.4682/
poles: 18

diassembly video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpBXKPd ... g&index=32
_____________________
Cute Q100H
spoke pitch circle diameter: 108mm
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=55477
sideplate unscrews
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =2&t=50840
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=13998
Pics comparing freewheel version with new 2015 cassette
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=70369
Good pictures and information on the internals:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86991&p=1271611#p1271611
_____________________
Outrider
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
http://www.ebikes.ca/moutrider-fst.html
_____________________
Heinzmann
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... f=2&t=4190
http://www.ebike.heinzmann.com/en/
brushed, no disc brake flange, two stages of geared reduction with the high-RPM half using helical gears. The two tiny wires exiting the motor are a temp sensor that trips at 145F / 63C, rare axial flux configuration.
_____________________
Tongxin
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
The Tongxin uses smooth rollers for the reduction instead of gears, which provides an unusually high amount of reduction. This means it runs very quietly, but it also means it cannot take many amps or it will start slipping.
http://static.electricbike.com/wp-conte ... nKits4.png
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25188
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymQyvh0L6iE
_____________________
Ananda
Identical to the Keyde/Tongxin
_____________________
MBG
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 25#p652141
_____________________
Cute Q85H
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 75#p361123
_____________________
Bafang SWXU
spoke pitch circle diameter: 108mm
The wires exit the sideplate instead of the axle.
_____________________
Q75
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
Stator width and diameter:_______
_____________________
Keyde
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xelWE1FWa54
_____________________
Please PM corrections and additional details to spinningmagnets @ http://endless-sphere.com/forums/member ... ile&u=5883

Here is a pic of a DIY tool for removing certain common types of sideplates, which screw onto the center section:

Image

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Brushless Geared hubmotors: BIG list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 19 2008 7:07am

I'm hoping what's in the title is what we can create here. I'll get the ball rolling and hopefully member input can create good concise information. I plan to keep these top posts updated as info from member posts below comes in

Brushless Geared Hub Motors

As the name implies, brushless geared hubmotors utilise a brushless motor connected to a set of planetary gears which then drive the wheel.

These hubmotors have several advantages and disadvantages:

+ ~50% weight reduction compared with direct drive hubmotors
+ greater torque compared to direct drive hubmotors (translates into great hill climbing abilities)
+ freewheel for reduced rolling resistance (some may not have a freewheel, making regen possible, see the P2b below)
- cost/complexity
- moving/wearing parts (the gears, especially nylon ones)
- noise
- no regen possible on models with freewheel
credit:http://ebike.ca/hubmotors.shtml An excellent intro the these motors (under the geared hub motor heading).

(further write-up coming)
Last edited by voicecoils on Mar 30 2011 7:21pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 19 2008 7:08am

eZee
Image

Weight: 3.8 kg
Gear Reduction: 5:1
Gears: Sun and ring gears are steel. The planets gears are Nylon and replaceable.
Freewheel: Yes
Position Front hub only
Disc Brake Yes, 6" included
Controller Compatibility eZee 20A, Crystalyte (w/ rewiring), (unknown: ecrazyman, Kelly BLDC?)
Rated Power At least 740W (standard kit comes with 37v battery, 20a controller).
User Power What's your experience guys? 1kW capable, 1MW? :wink:

Available: http://ebikes.ca/store/
Cost: Bare unlaced hubmotor cost unknown. Full Kit (w/out battery or charger) CDN$750

(more to come...)
Last edited by voicecoils on Jun 19 2008 7:34pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 19 2008 7:08am

BMC
Image

Weight: 5.44 kg
Gear Reduction: ?
Gears: ?
Freewheel: Yes
Position: rear, 135mm, w/ 7 speed freewheel
Disc Brake: Compatible, no rotor included
Controller Compatibility: ?
Rated Power: At least 900W (standard kit comes with 25a controller).
User Power: What's your experience guys? 1kW capable, 1MW? :wink:

Available: http://www.texaselectricbikes.com/catal ... p-163.html
Cost: Bare unlaced hubmotor cost unknown. Full Kit (w/out battery or charger) USD$699

(more to come...)
Last edited by voicecoils on Jun 19 2008 7:34pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 19 2008 7:08am

Puma

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 19 2008 7:09am

P2b from SolarBBQ, Australia

ImageImage
Weight: 4.4 kg
Gear Reduction: ~4:1
Gears: Sun and ring gears are steel. The planets gears are Nylon and replaceable.
Freewheel: No
Position: Front hub or rear with modification (see website)
Disc Brake: Unknown
Controller Compatibility: kit comes with 18A controller (others unknown)
Rated Input Power: At least 864W (at 48v, 18a).
User Power: What's your experience guys? 1kW capable, 1MW? :wink:
Peak Efficiency: 82% at ~540W input power

(more to come...)
Last edited by voicecoils on Feb 16 2011 5:00pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by Miles » Jun 19 2008 7:15am

Link removed due to potential trojan risk.. - Ypedal
Last edited by Miles on Jun 19 2008 8:53am, edited 1 time in total.

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by Miles » Jun 19 2008 7:18am

Tongxin

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 19 2008 8:01am

Miles wrote:Aren't Heinzman still using brushed motors?
Fixed, Cheers. If you have info/personal experiences to add, bring 'em on! :D

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by Miles » Jun 19 2008 8:54am

I've edited mine, too :wink:

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by Jay64 » Jun 19 2008 10:24am

Good timing of this post. I'm actually just starting to do some research on building an ebike and thinking of using a hub motor on it. Really looking for some input on the different types. Having it all in one thread would be helpful too, since we have so many different threads on this forum.
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EV Bikes:
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'87 Hurricane 600, ME0709, 48v/50a SLA, Kelly KD72400, Magura Throttle, High Current Cycle Analyst.
http://www.evalbum.com/2275
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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by docnjoj » Jun 19 2008 3:37pm

Solarbbq2003 has P2b which is brushless! The P2a is a great geared motor but has brushes. About 400 Aus $ delivered! Check the website for updates! Bretts a prince to deal with!
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 19 2008 7:28pm

docnjoj wrote:Solarbbq2003 has P2b which is brushless! The P2a is a great geared motor but has brushes. About 400 Aus $ delivered! Check the website for updates! Bretts a prince to deal with!
otherDoc
Thanks Docnjoj, I've added details of his motor above. Do you have one?

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 19 2008 7:31pm

Jay64 wrote:Really looking for some input on the different types. Having it all in one thread would be helpful too, since we have so many different threads on this forum.
No worries, hopefully this will allow people to differentiate the different geared brushless motors out there. They do have some additional mechanical complexity compared with straight brushless but increased torque and less weight as a benefit.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by Knuckles » Jun 19 2008 7:55pm

Yes. I like these motors. I ran the Bafang PMGR thru sand today.
Superior to a DD motor at low wheel rpm. Unstoppable torque at 72V and 20 amps.
The little PMGR motor does get warm (and I swear it sounds like a quite Dewalt power tool).
But the Grubee Direct Drive is faster max speed and accelerates much quicker than the Bafang PMGR.

Hey ... maybe use one of each!

Bafang PMGR: http://www.szbaf.com/en/product_detail. ... ductID=506
Weight: 3 kg
Gear Reduction: 4.3:1
Gears: Planetary
Freewheel: YES
Position: Front
Disc Brake: NO
Controller Compatibility: Old x-lyte analogue, crazyman 72V 30Amp with 20-mhz resonator mod
See ... http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... &start=105
Rated Input Power: 250W @ 36V
User Power: 72V 30amps
Peak Efficiency: WTFK

Available: YES
Forum Contact: Knuckles
Additional Info: PMGR and DD are different motors than can do different things

Cost: I offer special deal ... $199 front Bafang PMGR laced into 26" wheel + $39 shipping

Wheel shown here ... http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 150#p72362
bafang.jpg
Last edited by Knuckles on Jun 20 2008 12:32am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 19 2008 8:04pm

Knuckles wrote:Yes. I like these motors.
Awsome thanks for editing in the details!
Bafang PMGR (QSWXB)
Here's a picture for those interested: Image
(edit, will talk to Keywin, for China --> Oz direct, thanks for all your legwork knuckles!)
Last edited by voicecoils on Jun 20 2008 6:40am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by Knuckles » Jun 19 2008 11:25pm

voicecoils wrote:Don't suppose that $39 shipping is to Sydney? 8)
ha ha. Shipping from China to AU is actually the cheapest!
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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 19 2008 11:35pm

(more to come...)
Last edited by voicecoils on Jun 20 2008 6:36am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by andys » Jun 20 2008 12:49am

Doug at EV tech engineered and designed the geared hub motor over a period of many years. Too bad he didn't patent it, as now the manufacturers have sold his design to others who put their names on them. I have his hub on the rear of a bike and it is an 8 pound torque monster. One thing not mentioned much about these motors, is that they are very efficient. Quite a bit more so the the Crystalite ones. I can go 35 miles on a 48 volt 15AH Lifepo4 at an average speed of 20 MPH on a 20 inch bike.

http://www.texaselectricbikes.com/catal ... p-163.html
Attachments
AND_4715re.jpg
Ev Tech geared BMC hub on a 20 inch folder.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 20 2008 1:24am

andys wrote:Doug at EV tech engineered and designed the geared hub motor over a period of many years.
Thanks for the history, AndyS. Was Doug actually the first to make them happen? I don't know how much good a patent would do in China. I've listed his motor towards the top of the thread.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by docnjoj » Jun 20 2008 5:54pm

voicecoils wrote:
docnjoj wrote:Solarbbq2003 has P2b which is brushless! The P2a is a great geared motor but has brushes. About 400 Aus $ delivered! Check the website for updates! Bretts a prince to deal with!
otherDoc
Thanks Docnjoj, I've added details of his motor above. Do you have one?
Yeah! I ran it into the ground over about 1800 miles on my big trike! Great little motor, but brushed! I only do old tech!
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by The7 » Jun 20 2008 8:14pm

docnjoj wrote: Yeah! I ran it into the ground over about 1800 miles on my big trike! Great little motor, but brushed! I only do old tech!
otherDoc
How often do you need to renew the brushes?

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by voicecoils » Jun 20 2008 8:16pm

docnjoj wrote:
voicecoils wrote:
docnjoj wrote:Solarbbq2003 has P2b which is brushless! The P2a is a great geared motor but has brushes. About 400 Aus $ delivered! Check the website for updates! Bretts a prince to deal with!
otherDoc
Thanks Docnjoj, I've added details of his motor above. Do you have one?
Yeah! I ran it into the ground over about 1800 miles on my big trike! Great little motor, but brushed! I only do old tech!
otherDoc
Just to clarify, you "ran it into the ground", so you've killed it? This is the P2a (brushed and geared) your talking about, yeah?

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by andys » Jun 20 2008 9:24pm

Doug told me not only did he come up with the geared hub design, but he has upgraded it several times. the last changes he made was to have them built to take a standard mountain bike disc rotor as direct bolt on, and a larger diameter axle for more strength and to allow for bigger gauge wires. The ones he is selling are also built with US made bearings, and not the Chinese ones. He is supplying a CNC machined torque arm with each motor now as well.

I just ordered another one.

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Re: Brushless Geared hubmotors: definitive list & details

Post by shinyballs » Jun 20 2008 11:46pm

Is the axle of the Bafang motor hollow? What's the weight limit for the rear can it carry?
Sale section etiquette, pls be courteous to other members, if you know of a better deal or do not agree with the sale price, do not shove links to similar products being sold by someone else in another member's post.. it's just not nice. If you suspect a scam pls FLAG the thread for moderation and it will be checked out... i know this is a tough one to call but put yourself in the seller's shoes and imagine how you would like it.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=25446

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