New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

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New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by chas58 » Apr 29 2013 9:26am

Now that I have purchased my kit, I found that Cute now has a CST motor designed to be used with regular shimano cassettes. Oops, too late now for me. Now there is an option to the Bafang CST. Wonder if it is the same motor as in the Q100? Kinda looks like it. Is this a new motor, or am I just now finding it.

Who is going to buy one and try it out? Hurry up, there is one in stock:

http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp ... K3QJ.1WASD
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by d8veh » Apr 30 2013 3:43am

It's a shame they don't do a 250rpm version. 328rpm is really only suitable for small wheels. Looks nice though.

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by chas58 » Apr 30 2013 8:11am

Does anyone do a 250-270 rpm small geared hub motor (~250W)?
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by animal » May 12 2013 12:30pm

I just bought one. 201 rpm version.

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by Ypedal » May 12 2013 12:36pm

I should have 235's in a few months. :P
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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by Drunkskunk » May 12 2013 12:51pm

Ouch. $167 for a Cute. That price isn't very cute.
Still, CST is nice. I wonder what the width is?
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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by friendly1uk » May 12 2013 5:43pm

chas58 wrote:Does anyone do a 250-270 rpm small geared hub motor (~250W)?
You have one apparently. The 328 is 270rpm. The 201 is 230rpm. The q100 numbers are just to compair to other makes, it is not there actual spec, it's just branding.

Why not a Q100 cst, It don't really need to be a 140 unless it is actually different. Explaining why there is not both a 201 and 328

Edit: Sorry.. Misguided post there. Both 201 and 328 exist, although they are just selling the 201. I guess it is a Q100
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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by animal » May 25 2013 11:29pm

q100-1.jpg
Kg
q100-1.jpg (118.21 KiB) Viewed 4816 times
My motor arrived.

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by neptronix » May 26 2013 1:43pm

Super stealthy looking motor... i like it
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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by chas58 » Jun 06 2013 5:35pm

Friendly1,

We should stop quoting those numbers (230/270), they are wrong. I put my hopes in them, but in fact rpm specified by the vendor is in fact accurate. I bought them and measured them myself. :-) because the 230/270 numbers are wrong, I went out and bought a 3rd motor.

The following were run at 36v on 26"/700c wheels
201rpm - good for 18mph unloaded, 15 loaded (happy at 16-17)
328rpm - good for ~30mph unloaded 20 loaded (happy at 25 mph)
201rpm 24v (giving 300rpm) good for ~23 (estimate) unloaded, 20 loaded. (happy at 22mph)

Those numbers are off the top of my head

I haven't measured the 201/24v unloaded, I should do that. But the three Q100 I have are indeed running at 200, 300, and 328rpm as they should.

If the 328 motor in fact did 270rpm, I wouln't have had to go out and buy a 3rd motor. Now I have a spare. :-O
friendly1uk wrote:
chas58 wrote:Does anyone do a 250-270 rpm small geared hub motor (~250W)?
You have one apparently. The 328 is 270rpm. The 201 is 230rpm. The q100 numbers are just to compair to other makes, it is not there actual spec, it's just branding.

Why not a Q100 cst, It don't really need to be a 140 unless it is actually different. Explaining why there is not both a 201 and 328

Edit: Sorry.. Misguided post there. Both 201 and 328 exist, although they are just selling the 201. I guess it is a Q100
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by friendly1uk » Jun 06 2013 6:53pm

chas58 wrote:Friendly1,

We should stop quoting those numbers (230/270), they are wrong. I put my hopes in them, but in fact rpm specified by the vendor is in fact accurate. I bought them and measured them myself. :-) because the 230/270 numbers are wrong, I went out and bought a 3rd motor.

The following were run at 36v on 26"/700c wheels
201rpm - good for 18mph unloaded, 15 loaded (happy at 16-17)
328rpm - good for ~30mph unloaded 20 loaded (happy at 25 mph)
201rpm 24v (giving 300rpm) good for ~23 (estimate) unloaded, 20 loaded. (happy at 22mph)

Those numbers are off the top of my head

I haven't measured the 201/24v unloaded, I should do that. But the three Q100 I have are indeed running at 200, 300, and 328rpm as they should.

If the 328 motor in fact did 270rpm, I wouln't have had to go out and buy a 3rd motor. Now I have a spare. :-O
friendly1uk wrote:
chas58 wrote:Does anyone do a 250-270 rpm small geared hub motor (~250W)?
You have one apparently. The 328 is 270rpm. The 201 is 230rpm. The q100 numbers are just to compair to other makes, it is not there actual spec, it's just branding.

Why not a Q100 cst, It don't really need to be a 140 unless it is actually different. Explaining why there is not both a 201 and 328

Edit: Sorry.. Misguided post there. Both 201 and 328 exist, although they are just selling the 201. I guess it is a Q100
Hello Chas. I didn't know you had been through all that. That's proper crap. I had hoped the 328 on your road bike was going to hit the mark. Have you found the 201 24v unit the better compromise between speed and power then, Or do you need more power? The controller mod is worth a calculated 10-15% more power, or some more batteries could speed things up.

I think this is the first time I have used those numbers outside of the original threads. Hopefully anyway. Although the numbers you are giving suggest the original 201 motor was doing 195rpm loaded,
234 unloaded.
bmsbattery sent me broken and incorrect stuff, and won't even talk to me about it.

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by Hillhater » Jun 06 2013 7:13pm

chas58 wrote:
The following were run at 36v on 26"/700c wheels
201rpm - good for 18mph unloaded, 15 loaded (happy at 16-17)

201rpm 24v (giving 300rpm) good for ~23 (estimate) unloaded, 20 loaded. (happy at 22mph)

Those numbers are off the top of my head
Is that last motor the same unit but running on 24 volts instead of 36v?
I am trying to understand how that motor can be giving more rpm and speed on a lower (24v) voltage ??
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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by d8veh » Jun 07 2013 3:14am

Hillhater wrote:
chas58 wrote:
The following were run at 36v on 26"/700c wheels
201rpm - good for 18mph unloaded, 15 loaded (happy at 16-17)

201rpm 24v (giving 300rpm) good for ~23 (estimate) unloaded, 20 loaded. (happy at 22mph)

Those numbers are off the top of my head
Is that last motor the same unit but running on 24 volts instead of 36v?
I am trying to understand how that motor can be giving more rpm and speed on a lower (24v) voltage ??
Other way round. It's the 24v motor running on 36v to increase the no-load speed by 50%.

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by -dg » Jun 07 2013 6:20pm

Interesting. A few questions:

What is the spoke hole diameter and the flange spacing and offset if any? That is, the numbers one needs to build a wheel. Usually there is a pdf drawing, but I did not find it.

Is there a bearing at the end of the casette splines?

What is the width, I saw 140 on one of the Chinese vendor sites, but most bikes are 135 these days.

Finally, is this the same internal construction as the Q100, ie an inrunner with the axle split into two half shafts as opposed to Bafang style outrunner with a through axle?

Thanks.
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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by chas58 » Jun 10 2013 11:52am

Ok, I did some testing to get real numbers for the Q100:

Tested motor speeds at no load and at load with 36v battery
210rpm = 18mph no load; Load speed: 15mph
201rpm 24v = 28.3 mph (@36v) no load: Loaded speed 20mph (this is the 24v motor running on a 36v battery)
328rpm = 29.0 mph no load. Loaded speed: 20mph.

I’m enjoying the last two motors as a true pedal assist; the motors provide good assist (<75% power) up to 26mph. The first motor’s power peaks at 14mph, and it isn’t aiding much beyond 15mph.


As for actual motor speed vs rated motor speed?
210rpm gave actual noload RPM on fresh 36v battery (probably doing 40v) at 226rpm (for an estimated 201rpm at 36v)
328rpm gave noload RPM on fresh 36v battery (probably doing 40v) at 351rpm (or estimated 314 at 36v)

I would say the rated RPM is pretty close to what my actual motors are doing at 36v.
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by d8veh » Jun 11 2013 4:06am

You make a good point there, Chas.

The speed ratings are:
201 rpm at 36v
328 rpm at 36v.

A 36v battery can be as high as 42v, although probably spends most time in the range 38v to 40v, so actual speeds will be about 10% higher than the rated speeds.

Hot off the charger no-load speeds would be 234 rpm and 382 rpm, or 17.5mph and 28.5mph.

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by akhc1 » Jul 19 2013 10:04pm

Nice looking motor and would perfectly suit my application - cassette, lightweight - but 140 OLD (Over Locknut Distance) is too large for my bike. Standard OLD for MTB bikes is 135. Too bad.
Also like the keyde motor but these all appear to have built in pedelec controller.
Anyone know of any 135 alternatives, otherwise I'll have to go front hub?

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by d8veh » Jul 20 2013 3:17am

akhc1 wrote:Nice looking motor and would perfectly suit my application - cassette, lightweight - but 140 OLD (Over Locknut Distance) is too large for my bike. Standard OLD for MTB bikes is 135. Too bad.
Also like the keyde motor but these all appear to have built in pedelec controller.
Anyone know of any 135 alternatives, otherwise I'll have to go front hub?
Most frames will easily spring to 140mm, so it shouldn't be a problem. The only ones I've had difficulty with are frames for 20" wheels, which are relatively stiffer, but , even for them, to spring them 5mm is not difficult.

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by lollandster » Jul 25 2013 9:11am

d8veh wrote:Most frames will easily spring to 140mm, so it shouldn't be a problem. The only ones I've had difficulty with are frames for 20" wheels, which are relatively stiffer, but , even for them, to spring them 5mm is not difficult.
I hope this applies to alu frames too? Mine is 29er so I guess it's safe. I will order the motor tomorrow as I'm looking for a light weight stealth solution for my bike.
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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by chas58 » Jul 25 2013 11:56am

I don't think it will be a problem (especially with large wheels). Its only 2.5mm each side and you would have to have an unusually stiff frame not to accommodate that.
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by lollandster » Jul 25 2013 1:44pm

chas58 wrote:I don't think it will be a problem (especially with large wheels). Its only 2.5mm each side and you would have to have an unusually stiff frame not to accommodate that.
Thanks. I just tested the "springiness" of my frame and it looks promising. So I ordered a QQ-M140-R one plus a 350w miniature controller. I'm guessing that 350w isn't going to be a problem.

My bike has a 10 speed cassette so that is going to be interesting to see if works.
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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by d8veh » Jul 25 2013 1:53pm

lollandster wrote:
chas58 wrote:I don't think it will be a problem (especially with large wheels). Its only 2.5mm each side and you would have to have an unusually stiff frame not to accommodate that.
Thanks. I just tested the "springiness" of my frame and it looks promising. So I ordered a QQ-M140-R one plus a 350w miniature controller. I'm guessing that 350w isn't going to be a problem.

My bike has a 10 speed cassette so that is going to be interesting to see if works.
I'm not sure where they get 350w from, but it says 12 amps max, which is quite low. The 250w ones are normally 15 amps. When you get it, if it doesn't give enough power, it might be an idea to solder about 30% of the shunt, which should increase the current to about 17 or 18 amps.

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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by lollandster » Jul 25 2013 2:01pm

d8veh wrote:
lollandster wrote:
chas58 wrote:I don't think it will be a problem (especially with large wheels). Its only 2.5mm each side and you would have to have an unusually stiff frame not to accommodate that.
Thanks. I just tested the "springiness" of my frame and it looks promising. So I ordered a QQ-M140-R one plus a 350w miniature controller. I'm guessing that 350w isn't going to be a problem.

My bike has a 10 speed cassette so that is going to be interesting to see if works.
I'm not sure where they get 350w from, but it says 12 amps max, which is quite low. The 250w ones are normally 15 amps. When you get it, if it doesn't give enough power, it might be an idea to solder about 30% of the shunt, which should increase the current to about 17 or 18 amps.
Ok, good to know. I have a 9fet lyen controller I can program and compare when I get the motor. I also have a CON62 36V250W controller from GreenBikeKit for a GBK100.
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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by majornelson » Aug 04 2013 8:35pm

Lollandster,

How is the torque and speed of the new motor?
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Re: New Cute Q100 replacement? The Q140 CST

Post by lollandster » Aug 05 2013 1:03am

majornelson wrote:Lollandster,

How is the torque and speed of the new motor?
You have to give me a few more days. The motor hasn't arrived yet. According to FedEx it wont arrive until Friday, but it arrived in Oslo yesterday so I expect it here sooner. I'm guessing the torque and speed will be the same as the Q100.
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