Falco e-Motors

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Mark H   10 mW

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Falco e-Motors

Post by Mark H » May 04 2013 10:00am

Due to a life threatening illness Team Hybrid have new management who have taken the decision to cease all electric bicycle related business.

All our efforts are focused on our core business of hand cycle manufacture.

Team Hybrid.
Last edited by Mark H on Apr 29 2015 5:33pm, edited 2 times in total.

miro13car   1 MW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by miro13car » May 04 2013 10:27am

Mark,
first of all welcome here.
FALCO IS an ebike system which stand out for many reasons, level of engineering , quality.
But the main reason it stand out - it was designed by USA company STGroup.
I checked Falco kits prices and was surprised it is in general cheaper than EPLUS kit /designed by the same STG/
I payed CAN$2600 for my 1000W EPLUS kit /one of the best spend money in my life/.
I have a question ,
Mark, about battery, does it have communication cable ?
By other words, does battery contain electronics which communicate with motor controller and display like on EPLUS?

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ambroseliao   100 kW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by ambroseliao » May 04 2013 12:44pm

Looking at this amazing system, and at the Falcoemotors.com website, the battery has a slide-in and locking mount that looks very elegant. The connector on the battery looks like a Delphi type similar to the Tidalforce and E+ systems.

I can't wait to try one of these state-of-the-art systems out. If it's anything like the Tidalforce and E+ systems it will be wonderful. Congrats on getting this amazing system to market!

http://www.falcoemotors.com/?page_id=338
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

miro13car   1 MW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by miro13car » May 04 2013 1:38pm

Mark is going to confirm if FALCO can accept third-party battery,
but from email exchange with Rakhes , leading engineer on FALCO design team , Falco can be powered on any 36V battery.
For sure FALCO beeing 5-phase is more smooth than Eplus and as smooth as TF which I consider golden standard .
But I am sure FALCO efficency is much improved over TF.
I enjoy my TF so much which is my winter commuter with incredible reliability /approaching 24,000km !!!/ and my Eplus in summer season but I would like to try FALCO a lot.

Mark H   10 mW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Mark H » May 04 2013 2:49pm

[quote="miro13car"]Mark,
Last edited by Mark H on Apr 29 2015 5:37pm, edited 2 times in total.

miro13car   1 MW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by miro13car » May 04 2013 3:11pm

So if FALCO can be used with third-party 36V battery
so
it tells me that FALCO battery is self contained, this alone means it should be even more appealing to ebikes builders.

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by miro13car » May 04 2013 3:40pm

here is USA dealer for FALCO .
I would say very reasonable prices.
http://www.electricbicycleworld.com/aboutus.asp
Notice , you can choose restricted to 32km/h or derestricted model, guess what would be the choce of 99% of buyiers?

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RichiePA   10 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by RichiePA » May 12 2013 6:36pm

Hi Mark,

Sounds very interesting, I'm about 2 hours down the coast from you so could see myself popping down to see these motors in action but its a long way to come just for a quick looksy. I'd bet there are probably a few e bike builders who aren't too far from you and wouldn't mind a meet and some demos. do you think you might have a open day/meet in the near future?
Giant DH Team, Crystalyte HT35 rear hub, Crystalyte 72V 45Amp controller,
Build thread here

Bike_on   100 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Bike_on » May 20 2013 3:08pm

I have been interfacing with Falco for about two months now, flushing out their USA product line and options.

I'm looking to make a light commuter build, with Kepler's Supercommuter as the bar. I'd like the stealth of an Easy Motion Neo bike, but without the speed limits. 40lb or less is preferred, and 45lb max. Falco's 500W system appears to be their standard 350W system with more amps.

Battery options are flexible.

350/500W motor is 4.5kg, 750W is 6kg including controller inside.

The wireless controller keeps the wire count down. The system can be well integrated for stealth.

The rear rack battery is not my preference because of weigh imbalance. Nothing beats a center battery, IMO, and that starts to limit options. Falco has a bottle battery, 2.5kg.

My delima now is bike selection. I have a new Gravity, relaxed, road bike with Ultegra components, carbon fork, no disk brakes. The 500W system woul dmake that 35lb, but I'm a little uneasy on riding an ebike with hoods and caliper brakes.

Other options would be to buy a 29er with front susp, maybe a titanium. (23lbs) + 15 = 38lb bike. Maybe less with street tires. If I did that, I almost want the 750W motor for more torque.

Final mod would be a 52V, 7.8lb, 13 ahr Li-nmc from HPC.

Any comments?

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ambroseliao   100 kW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by ambroseliao » May 20 2013 3:15pm

You don't mention prices. Are they similar?
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

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snellemin   10 kW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by snellemin » May 20 2013 3:55pm

I didn't see any kits without the battery. Looks interesting when/if a 48V 1500W version becomes available.
Silent speed Racer

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by neptronix » May 20 2013 4:06pm

You should do a small group buy here on the forums for kits sans batteries, just for the purpose of testing.
Sell them at your cost, maybe a little more $ so it's worth your time.

But just get them into the hands of people who are willing to put them through the paces. I can name a few folks.

Surely i am not the only one interested in playing around with a 90% efficient light weight DD motor with integrated controller.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

Bike_on   100 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Bike_on » May 20 2013 4:41pm

From Falco:
We have 5 levels of assistance. They are roughly from in steps of 20%.

We have three Hx Platforms as follows:

1000W/1500W System (40mm Stack/7.5kg)
• Front wheel installation without Disc Brake on 100mm drop out;
• Rear Wheel Installation with single speed on 135mm drop out;
• Rear Wheel Installation with Disc Brake and 9-speed on 170mm drop out.
• Max Torque: 65Nm

750W/1000W System (30mm Stack/6kg)
• Front Wheel Installation with Disc Brake;
• Rear Wheel Installation with 7-speed on 135mm drop out;
• Max Torque: 65Nm

250/350/500W System (20mm Stack/4.5kg)
• Front wheel installation with Disc Brake;
• Rear Wheel Installation with Disc Brake and upto 9-speed;
• Max Torque: 50Nm
Falco eMotors Retail Price List 2013 Released Jan 2013.pdf
Falco Price List
(282.8 KiB) Downloaded 918 times

Bike_on   100 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Bike_on » May 20 2013 4:44pm

Falco eMotors Installation Guide.pdf
Installation Guide
(3.69 MiB) Downloaded 476 times
The documentation and web site still has a few bugs and details to clean up, but the HW is not vaporwear.

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Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh   100 MW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » May 20 2013 4:48pm

neptronix wrote:Surely i am not the only one interested in playing around with a 90% efficient light weight DD motor with integrated controller.
2 days earlier neptronix wrote:i wonder if the hub motor is truly doomed at this point.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 04#p742066

there's your answer: no

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Bike_on » May 20 2013 4:51pm

Here are some questions I asked and got answers:
1. Can I order a second battery (one in rear/one in middle) and connect in parallel? I am concerned the 1000W will drain too fast and stress the 9ahr battery.

This is not possible right now. We have developed a solution which can automatically turn ON and Off the batteries wirelessly. However that solution is still in testing.


2. Does a charger come with battery? Can I charge both with one charger?, Will BMS allow it? It should.

No. Batteries need to be charged separately.


3. This is a full pedelec system, correct? What are the power adjustments available by the wireless controller? 25%? 50%?100%?

You can activate our system in a number of ways as follows:

· Throttle;

· Crank Sensor;

· Torque Sensor.

· Or a combination of any two of above.

We have 5 levels of assistance. They are roughly from in steps of 20%.

We have three Hx Platforms as follows:

1000W/1500W System (40mm Stack/7.5kg)
• Front wheel installation without Disc Brake on 100mm drop out;
• Rear Wheel Installation with single speed on 135mm drop out;
• Rear Wheel Installation with Disc Brake and 9-speed on 170mm drop out.
• Max Torque: 65Nm

750W/1000W System (30mm Stack/6kg)
• Front Wheel Installation with Disc Brake;
• Rear Wheel Installation with 7-speed on 135mm drop out;
• Max Torque: 65Nm

250/350/500W System (20mm Stack/4.5kg)
• Front wheel installation with Disc Brake;
• Rear Wheel Installation with Disc Brake and upto 9-speed;
• Max Torque: 50Nm


4. How is the controller charged if it is wireless? Removeable and USB? Lithium cell inside?

We have Lithium inside. It is rechargeable thru a charger or thru a USB port.


5. I have an aluminum road bike with carbon forks. What is the most powerful but safe system for it?

I would recommend 500W with Crank Sensor.


6. WHat frame is needed for a 1000W system? Is it 1500W peak?

1000W can only work with single speed.

then....

1. What kind of bike has 170mm drop out spans? wow.

Those are some of the custom bikes.

2. What is the difference between crank sensor and torque sensor? rpm vs force? Is the crank sensor more simple?

Crank Sensor senses pedal motion. Torque sensor senses pedal force.

3. So the answer to #1 is NO, your batteries can not be connected in parallel? What is preventing such a configuration? Isn't the battery self protected?

They are protected. However circulating currents can be huge when there is substantial voltage difference. We do not recommend it.

4. For the 40mm stack, 1000/1500W motor...is that 1000W at 36V and 1500W at 48V?

That is correct.

5. Can I use an aftermarker, 48V, 20ahr battery? What is the battery connector style?

Yes, You can. We use Delphi connector. Please see page 14.

6. How are you setting the power limits with the different motors? ie 20mm can be 250W, 350W, 500W. Is it by current limit, constant voltage or pwm limit? Windings? other?

The power limits are set by controlling the phase current of the motor.



7. Can the console send instant power to a Garmin via ant+?

No. LEV profile of the ANT+ does not have this feature currently. This could be done by changing the console firmware.

8. 1000W can only work with single speed.

Did you mean a single speed for a 135mm span?

That is correct.

I am still deciding between "Light and Fast" (500W) with a 10ahr, 30mile range, 20mph ave. vs. a "Heavy and Fast" (1000W-1500W) with 20ahr, 30mile range, 28mph ave.

> I would think 500W should be plenty good with crank sensor. It is fast and furious if you like pedaling. If you do not like pedaling go with 750W. If you do not care for the weight go for 1000W.

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by neptronix » May 20 2013 4:56pm

Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh wrote:
neptronix wrote:Surely i am not the only one interested in playing around with a 90% efficient light weight DD motor with integrated controller.
2 days earlier neptronix wrote:i wonder if the hub motor is truly doomed at this point.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 04#p742066

there's your answer: no
Allright, you got me :mrgreen:
Yes, 90% efficiency and low weight is really a boon for hub motor tech. In the face of that, i still completely favor other drives, but this is good in the meantime and worth a look due to the convenience of hub motors as a whole.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh   100 MW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » May 20 2013 5:18pm

neptronix wrote:but this is good in the meantime
oh when will you learn?
don't for a minute think that this is as good as hubbies can get, it is just for now.

even should no one step up to advance the state of hub art, beta was better than vhs yet which one won?
the meek will always inherit all.

oh yeah, Mark H or anyone know when or even if Falco will be releasing the smaller 2kg Dx?

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by neptronix » May 20 2013 6:28pm

I have plenty of counterarguments but i don't want to flood this thread. We can start a chain drive/mid drive VS hub thread elsewhere :mrgreen: . Anyway if you are listening Mark, get some of these out to the experimenters here on ES..
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

miro13car   1 MW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by miro13car » May 21 2013 9:43pm

here is FALCO kit review in British magazine.

http://www.electricbikemag.co.uk/showSt ... orynum=144

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Bike_on » Jun 04 2013 3:54pm

Bike_on wrote:I have been interfacing with Falco for about two months now, flushing out their USA product line and options.

I'm looking to make a light commuter build, with Kepler's Supercommuter as the bar. I'd like the stealth of an Easy Motion Neo bike, but without the speed limits. 40lb or less is preferred, and 45lb max. Falco's 500W system appears to be their standard 350W system with more amps.

Battery options are flexible.

350/500W motor is 4.5kg, 750W is 6kg including controller inside.

The wireless controller keeps the wire count down. The system can be well integrated for stealth.

The rear rack battery is not my preference because of weigh imbalance. Nothing beats a center battery, IMO, and that starts to limit options. Falco has a bottle battery, 2.5kg.

My delima now is bike selection. I have a new Gravity, relaxed, road bike with Ultegra components, carbon fork, no disk brakes. The 500W system woul dmake that 35lb, but I'm a little uneasy on riding an ebike with hoods and caliper brakes.

Other options would be to buy a 29er with front susp, maybe a titanium. (23lbs) + 15 = 38lb bike. Maybe less with street tires. If I did that, I almost want the 750W motor for more torque.

Final mod would be a 52V, 7.8lb, 13 ahr Li-nmc from HPC.

Any comments?
I ended up ordering the 500W kit for my Gravity Road bike (with hoods). I also ordered Falco's 11.6ahr battery (3 kg) in order to get a solid system. I'll fool with the 48V option after some experience with the stock 36V.

I haven't weighted the bike, ~21lb with 28mm tires (max size for the bike) + 16.5lb system = 37.5 lb. + pump+bag, tube, tool....

I upgrades the torque to 50nm, upgrade speed gov to no limit, off road...

Expected strengths: light and fast, pedelec, wireless controls, clean.

Expected weaknesses: brakes, difficult for throttle option, difficult use of regen w/ no reed switch, too fast for 28mm tires.

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by miro13car » Jun 04 2013 10:51pm

"upgrade speed govern to no limit" ????
this is not your typical China MOTOR/controller you are buying.
Did you buy non-restricted model?
Of course all FALCO parameters are programmed into software just like on EPLUS or old legendary TIDAL FORCE /all designed by USA STG DESIGN company/.
Again speed restriction is built into software on all three ebike drives.
why breaks would be weakness, I dont think so, FALCO has well designed regen /pads lasting for long time/which helps to stop bike a lot

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Bike_on » Jul 01 2013 11:55am

I picked up my bike from Rakesh on Friday. My base bike is a Gravity Road bike with Ultegra components from Bikesdirect.com. Carbon fork, Alum frame, drop bars with hoods,

The bike+system weighed in at 39.8lb. Pics to follow. The 500W, 5-phase, direct drive motor is rear mounted. There is a wireless transmit module between the battery and the console. It has 5 levels of assist and 5 regen. Level 5 correlates to 300%, I think**. Cogging is not detectable when off or on 0 mode. It has a "Turbo" mode which add boost/current when torque signal is detected and boosts up to 15mph.

I am running in pedelec mode, no throttle. I can add it though if I go to another platform.

The Battery is tube like and center mounted on the bottle mount. Unfortunately, it is too low and prevents adding a bottle holder in the other mount for water. I mounted the wireless sensor there.

I spent the weekend getting use to the controls and feel of the torque sensor. It was impressively powerful, smooth and responsive. It is pedal driven and makes you work. If you pedal easy, it responds easy. Push hard and it takes off, even going 22mph it higher gears, it will take off like a bullet on this fast 28mm tire road bike.

Power seems to stay maintained on the hills, but one has to maintain a solid effort on the pedals or power and speed drop. If in turbo mode, the bike will get a strong acceleration back up to 15mph. Gearing down to the smaller front sprockets gets a better sensed response on the hills.

My first partial commute to work, 5.7 mi, averaged 18.9mph vs 14.2mph without assist. Some of that is on bike paths and stopped at lights, so it was faster on the road. I'll be riding home 18+ miles. Battery was not charged, so I'll see how it performs towards the end. (11.6 Ahr)

Dan

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Bike_on » Jul 01 2013 11:02pm

Performance Data on my first commute ride home.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/336269520

I need to get the heart rate strap on because I am working hard!. :)
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+/- buttons connect to console. Also used for set up and select.
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Last edited by Bike_on on Jul 16 2013 1:05pm, edited 3 times in total.

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ambroseliao   100 kW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by ambroseliao » Jul 02 2013 12:26am

That is a very clean kit! Beautiful!
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

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