Falco e-Motors

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
iamalavalamp   1 µW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by iamalavalamp » May 24 2015 1:47am

My version which I'm still working on (with help).
Thought I would post some photos before I have to put racks on for carrying stuff (which I'm told will ruin its looks) and increase weight (now ~24kg):
Donor bike: (second hand)
http://www.norco.com/archives/2011/?id=judan-belt
Changed:
Tyres: Maxxis Grifter 29x2.5" for road use
Motor: Falco 1000w with internal torque sensor and throttle
Battery: 48v 11.6ah
Single speed belt (115t) drive: 55t (front) x 22t (rear)
Disc brake spacers: 3
Longer disc brake bolts.
The attachment on the seat post is for a trolley/trailer.
The saddle pack is for a spare inner tube& tyre levers-it will be a pain!
The console is a big big and fiddly-but hopefully that will improve.
Speeds so far: quite fast, still testing. Range: I can peddle it back home, again beta phase.

Yes I know I have long legs(high seat post), a short torso (small frame) and the disc brake rotors don't match up (forgot to put the matching one back on).
Big thanks for BenMoore for help with the spacing, wheel build, soldering together and Falco (I will still have more questions for you!)
Attachments
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Last edited by iamalavalamp on Jun 19 2015 2:23am, edited 1 time in total.

Ottodog   100 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Ottodog » May 24 2015 1:55am

Very cool! Always nice to see another Falco owner. Especially with 1000 watts. I imagine that's got some get up and go. 8)

Bike_on   100 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Bike_on » Jun 15 2015 11:19am

I switched my Falco hub from a Gravity 20 road bike, to a Trek DS 8.5.

I also swapped my hub motor for a new hub. My old one busted off a flange/spoke.

Here are some stats:

Changed:
Tires: Schwalbe Marathon Supremes, 28 x 2.
Motor: Falco 500w with internal torque sensor and throttle
Battery: 36v 11.6ah (going on third year o fuse. Still gets about 9ahr until finished.
9 speed freewheel cassette drive: 48t (front) max 11t (rear) min
Disc brake spacers: NONE! The new hub fit perfect. Longer disc brake bolts not needed.
Mechanical Suntour forks, 160mm, maybe? Remote lockout*.
Thud buster seat post. Gary Fisher Iso zone on rear. Combined with the 2" tire gives a very comfy but fast ride.
Shimano Hydr disk brakes, 160mm.
The console and +/- pad - same as original stock. Functional.
My console scrolls through battery voltage, motor current, battery Ahrs and Heart rate. The Battery Ahrs is totally inaccurate. The voltage and Amps are instantaneous, but ok. I rarely use the HR function.
Ride: Depends on the tweeking of the parameters. With an aging battery, it runs top notch for 7-8 miles, then less power is noticeable. My parameters allow for very good torque under PAS, even going 20-23mph up a 4-5% grade. I use throttle to tuck on downhills, topping out at 37mph.
A 48V battery would be a beast.
Attachments
trek ds+falco.jpg
Falco + Trek DS 8.5
trek ds+falco.jpg (178.63 KiB) Viewed 3336 times

Ottodog   100 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Ottodog » Jun 15 2015 5:29pm

Really nice Bike_On. When your 36V battery dies, I'd definitely recommend getting the 48V version. It made a very noticeable difference for me. Feels more Torquey and will do about 40 mph top speed. It's got slightly better range too.

iamalavalamp   1 µW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by iamalavalamp » Jun 19 2015 2:45am

How have people gone with the torque sensor adjusting?

What parameters are you using?

I am wanting to be able to use mine for towing a fairly heavy trolley.
say 27km trip of which ~13km will be carrying a big load.

i can do light pedalling on my knees. I would like to conserve the battery but better to trash that than my body, but not use the throttle too much either.
Speed limit here is 25kmph.

Some of the text makes a distinction between expert and beginner and Neil Armstrong (they mean Lance I think) and grandma which can be confusing.

Thanks for your help. Feel free to PM me!

Stilgar   1 µW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Stilgar » Jul 26 2015 11:44am

Hi all

New member here looking for some advice.

Purchased an HX 500 motor last summer while in the US and now finally I have the time to install it on my ICE Sprint Trike. I decided to do this after my company moved office adding another 25Km to my already 30Km commute.

The trike has a 20 inch rear wheel and I have purchased a 65 tooth chain ring to get a decent range of gears out of the 11 to 34 cassette that came with the motor.

So my question is, 36 or 48 volt? I wasn't planning on using a throttle but instead use the torque sensing, perhaps in combination with the crank sensor so what advantage is there in going up to 48volts? I have been told that I will have an increased top speed but that I assume would only apply if I used the throttle? Or will I in effect get a higher output for a given input torque?

A couple of other things; I have no qualms about braking the 250w rules or the 25Km/h rule so I intend to run the motor in "off road" mode. (Cycles paths have a limit of 30 here any way and I and many others routinely above that.) and i plumped for the 500w for more power.

Anyway, it is battery purchase time so here I am looking for advice.

Thanks

Mark

Ottodog   100 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Ottodog » Jul 26 2015 1:19pm

Definitely get the 48V motor. I have the same 500 watt motor. I originally got the 36V and paid a lot of money to do the upgrade. I never looked back. Climbs hills better, has better acceleration, faster top speed (about 40 mph full out) slightly better range, etc. If you can afford to go 48V you won't regret it. The 500 watt motors love it.

FalcoeMotors   10 W

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Falco at Interbike 2015

Post by FalcoeMotors » Oct 04 2015 6:19am

Greetings from Falco!

Here are some of the new products released at Interbike 2015

https://goo.gl/o86XuF

List of Products Released

Falco Fat Rebel
Falco Maverick
Falco Zing
Falco Zoom
Hx Liquid Cooled System
Hx Fat Bike Systems
eBike Lab
Smart Phone App

Let us have your comments or questions

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Jonathan in Hiram   1 kW

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Re: Falco at Interbike 2015

Post by Jonathan in Hiram » Oct 04 2015 9:41am

FalcoeMotors wrote:Greetings from Falco!

Here are some of the new products released at Interbike 2015

https://goo.gl/o86XuF

List of Products Released


Let us have your comments or questions
Oh my...

Your products seem quite nice, but your advertising isn't for this audience and I suspect you may not entirely appreciate some of the feedback you are likely to get.

The wording on some of the ads I looked at is a little hard to describe but I'd say a bit overly breathless and not entirely clear. You could use a better writer although your ads look pretty good.

For instance the phrase "like there is no tomorrow" is both a cliche (and an old one too) which you want to avoid and evokes a bit of a negative image at the same time (No tomorrow, really? Why do I want your product then?).
"Any sufficiently developed magic is indistinguishable from technology" -Agatha Heterodyne
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FalcoeMotors   10 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by FalcoeMotors » Oct 04 2015 9:49am

Thanks!

We are not sure which one you are referring to...could you be more specific?

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Jonathan in Hiram   1 kW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Jonathan in Hiram » Oct 04 2015 10:42am

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/fold ... 0Ywb3k2Mm8

That's the one I was referring to specifically but there's a lot of other subtle stuff that's off about the writing in all of the ads I looked at and I'm by no means perfect at this and I certainly didn't look at everything.

Good writing is as hard as good engineering it does take a different set of aptitudes and skills though, don't try to wing it.

Communication is difficult at the best of times, making a good impression is critical in a text medium too and little stuff throws it off.
"Any sufficiently developed magic is indistinguishable from technology" -Agatha Heterodyne
"Sometimes I get tired just smilin' " -The Checkered Demon
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FalcoeMotors   10 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by FalcoeMotors » Oct 04 2015 11:24am

Will send you a private message. Do not see anywhere we have mentioned tomorrow.

Ottodog   100 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Ottodog » Oct 04 2015 1:42pm

The Liquid Cooled motor is intriguing. With the controller in the motor it could definitely use some extra cooling. I know my 500 watt system gets pretty hot in the Summer. That is a great idea. Is it available now?

FalcoeMotors   10 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by FalcoeMotors » Oct 04 2015 1:45pm

Yes, it is. One can order it here:
http://electricbicycleworld.com/hx-kool/

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Jonathan in Hiram   1 kW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Jonathan in Hiram » Oct 04 2015 9:04pm

That link you posted is really hard to navigate and tell where you are in it...

This is the one I was talking about.

Image
"Any sufficiently developed magic is indistinguishable from technology" -Agatha Heterodyne
"Sometimes I get tired just smilin' " -The Checkered Demon
My recumbent "Grocery Getter" https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/v ... =6&t=57678

mvly   10 kW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by mvly » Oct 05 2015 2:02am

Jonathan in Hiram wrote:That link you posted is really hard to navigate and tell where you are in it...

This is the one I was talking about.

Image
Let me address falco motor on some of these advertising point.

Torque Density --- I am not convinced. Maybe more flat torque delivery throughout the phases, but then again sinusoidal or vector control controller can solve this or at least bring 3-phase stuff closer to your 5 phase. Maybe you are using silver wires to get more current to make up for the higher torque or something. Again law of physics.

Power Density --- Doubt it. Law of physics. If you can prove to me that 5-phase is more efficient then you can get more power out of it in smaller space. Some of the 3 phase stuff are pretty efficient, over 93% or more especially the ones that are geared to run at a certain RPM with a certain load.

Zero-Resistance Pedaling --- OK I will give you this one... maybe. Can say until I try one myself.

Speed --- See the comment on Torque Density

Redundancy --- I don't see it. Maybe you can revert back to 3 phase if one of the phase dies out? Well I can argue you build 3-phase with 6 sensors for redundancy and use controller to figure out which is still active. Or better yet, just have it go to sensor less once the sensors go out.

Smoothness --- Use vector-control controllers on 3-phase and you get smoothness without the 5-phase stuff.

Small Size --- See adaptto-mini. It's pretty small and the new one can push continuous 3.5K and peak higher. Not sure if your controller can do this in this package reliably.



Now let's talk about disadvantages:
1) Complexity --- Harder and definitely more compute intensive, at least compared to trapezoidal 3-phase stuff to drive 5-phase motor. Sure if you compare it to sinusoidal or vector control, then maybe it's more complex to drive the 3-phase stuff.

2) Cost --- Looks like you are the only people selling 5-phase controllers. How convenient is that? The market to yourself to charge higher to get better margins.

3) Compatibility --- Sure not all 3-phase controller will work with all other 3-phase stuff. But for the most part it's plug and play or swappable. I doubt you can get a 3-phase controller and hook it to work with your 5-phase motor. Maybe it will but the performance will definitely suffer.

Look I am not bagging on your technology. Sure it's great and you guys prove it can be done. But does the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? Surely not in this case.

FalcoeMotors   10 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by FalcoeMotors » Oct 05 2015 4:57am

Very good questions.

Enclosed is a summary journal paper which addresses your questions.
Journal Paper Summary on Falco's Five Phase Motor.pdf
Falco Five Phase Motor Comparison with Three Phase Motors
(658.19 KiB) Downloaded 125 times

Triketech   1 kW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Triketech » Oct 05 2015 10:26am

Liquid cooled is a nice bit of work.

5P is interesting technology but 3P driver IC's and flux simulation programs will trump any 5P benefits.

From what I've found, the 3P Go-Swissdrive has much lower cogging resistance with more power and range then the HX500 did. And the 3P Go-Swissdrive nearly silent.

That said, when I tried the HX500 I was impressed overall, but found the claims to be a bit too embellished.

Ottodog   100 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Ottodog » Oct 05 2015 1:00pm

Come on guys. Do we really need to do this every time. It's Marketing Fluff. Anyone with a brain gets that. Let's not be rude to the guests, lest we have no guests to be rude to. ;)

FalcoeMotors   10 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by FalcoeMotors » Oct 05 2015 1:42pm

GoSwiss is a great drive. Made in Switzerland.

As far as we know there is no 5-year warranty or throttle connection or torque sensor interface.

Their motor diameter is smaller so torque output is lower.

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Electro-Fox   10 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Electro-Fox » Nov 02 2015 11:12pm

Falco is crap...period. The motors are junk and the customer service is a joke. Don't get sucked in by this stuff....worst decision I ever made was to buy one. It does not work and nobody can help with it. Even the Falco dealers tell me this.

FalcoeMotors   10 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by FalcoeMotors » Nov 03 2015 3:54am

Hello Daryl,

We presume this is you. We understand your frustration. We are extremely sorry for this. We also understand that you have tried to extend the battery wires yourself and you are not sure whether the hub is receiving the power or not.

We have tried to help you by walking you through the diagnostics. You have bought a voltmeter which you are not sure whether it works or not.

We do not recommend people cutting and splicing wires or modifying Falco parts. We have battery extensions available.

Now when you modify Falco parts, it opens a can of worms. You void any warranty or support. Inspite of that we have helped you, called you and corresponded with you.

Tell us how exactly should we help you. Would you be willing to send in the parts so we can service them correctly?

We really do not want you to cut and splice anything.

Falco Customer Service
+1 877 278 6323

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Electro-Fox   10 W

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Electro-Fox » Nov 06 2015 2:45am

Everything has been a joke with you people! You have the gall to act all noble. I did not order a cable from you for the same reason I did not order the battery from you. You will never get a credit card from me again. Everyplace I have ever ordered anything they do not charge your card until they ship the product. Not with you...nope...you charge the card and then I don't hear nothing...I just wait and wait and no product. I originally ordered this hub, well over a year ago, thinking that I would be able to use it with any battery until I find out that you void the warranty when someone does not use your battery. So I order one of yours...you charge my card and don't even tell me that have done so, and I wait over a month and no battery. Not until I cancel the order before I see that you charged the card. You then lie and try to tell me that I authorized it. What BS. I have screwed with this damn motor for so long...and still have nothing to show for it. I finally decide that I would just order one of your 36volt bottle batteries from a dealer, who got me the battery with no problem whatsoever. Service that you simply are not capable of. Now you want to back away from helping me because I lengthened a wire. I had ordered two extension cables from you that were $40 buck each, and were absolutely crap. It looked as if a child made them. Why would I want to order another cable extension? In a last ditch effort to get this thing working I decided to just forgo using the wireless sensor and just hook it up to a throttle only. That did not work, so I called the dealer that sold me your battery and they said that this fix does not work. Fact is...all the dealers I have called to get help were more help than you. One guy said that he was stuck with your motors and could not hardly give them away.
People warned me...people told me to get a different hub, that sticking with a motor and the conventional external controller was better. I wished I would have listened. Hell...when I got took the hub to the bike shop to get it laced up they said that a couple of spoke holes were not even drilled out! He has pictures too! I have thousands invested in this thing...and once again you are dancing around technicalities rather than taking care of a customer. Oh...the dealer that sold me the battery said that I could send it in to them to see if they could get it working. This is a bike shop...they have no vested interest other than helping me.
People ....stay away from this guy....he is a con man and a rip off.

slacker   10 kW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by slacker » Nov 06 2015 8:35am

posts like electrofox is the reason i would never consider a falco hub motor,thank you.

Triketech   1 kW

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Re: Falco e-Motors

Post by Triketech » Nov 06 2015 11:56am

While the Falco has some interesting features the biggest obstacle to customer satisfaction is in the native homeland where it comes from, integrity is not an integral component of the culture. Thats too bad because its a requirement to maximize success in America.

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