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its_me_jason

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E-bikes don’t belong on trails and pathways, Do you think e-bikes should be licensed? lets kill this poll.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2013/02/28/star-editorial-e-bikes-dont-belong-on-trails-and-pathways/
 
Obviously if 10 kph is unsafe because the paths are too narrow, then all wheeled vehicles should be banned. Including the baby carriage that is too wide.

It's not safe for regular bikes too.

But.... They are full of shit. 3 meters is plenty, about the same as the 8ft wide paths in my town. Is your bike really more than 4 feet wide? Of course not. It's perfectly safe at 20 mph provided the $*^*%()(&$%^# walkers just don't stroll the center three abreast.

Once I took the ebikes to Albuquerque, where there is a long bike trail along the rio grande river. I was there on a pretty busy Saturday. I was APPALLED to find the path was only 6 feet wide, about 2 meters. It was a bit touchy, just trying to do an overtake, and oncoming bikes were scary. But nobody was actually crashing, and the riders had to use the etiquette, letting a rider know you were overtaking.

3 meters is unsafe at 10 kph? Bullsquat! They realize how slow 10kph is don't they? In US, its about 6 mph. :roll:

Go vote no.
 
Six meters! Jesus. This English-Fennoscandian tendency to ban everything fun in this case i think just comes from the fact that around 70-80% of the price of our gasoline is tax.
If people reduce their driving greatly, state goes bankrupt. (it"s the same situation with alcohol taxation here. If people reduce their alcohol consumption greatly...because....we can not afford free health care anymore, but that"s another issue..)
I think we don"t have any six meter lanes here. I dunno, i may go and measure. When you look all countries that are hostile towards E-bikes, you find that same countries sell highly taxed gas, Germany being exception with it"s S-pedelec class, and i don"t know about Australian gas prices. This is what you get when taxation is heavily consumption-based, they start ban things because consumption can not be reduced. Alcohol consumption can not be reduced, gasoline consumption can not be reduced, or the state loses big chunk of it"s income. Then they play all kinds of cards..
This infrastructure-argument is not working very well. You build better highways for cars every day out there. If our lanes won"t qualify, then you go and build better ones, filling your own requirements like you do with cars.
 
And when cars are required to leave a 6m gap when passing, I'll accept 6m is a reasonable distance to pass pedestrians at as well...

From that article though, I believe Australian law makers made one excellent decision - they banned electric motorscooters with pedals from their definition of electric bikes. I can only imagine how much more grief all electric bikers here would be getting if those were permitted on shared paths here. As it is, most people here don't even know an electric bike when they see one. I've had people ask me where the electric motor is, even after I told them it's electric.
 
E-bikes shouldn't be licensed. E-motorcycles should. Worthless POS e-scooters designed to exploit e-bike laws (such as the one in the picture at the link) should probably be banned from all public rights-of-way, like pocket bikes. But then, so should personal cars, if you ask me.

Joggers go faster than 10kph. What are they thinking? That and lane widths are entirely separate issues from licensing though, and the Windsor Star newspaper is practicing obvious yellow journalism by conflating these things.
 
I think the problem is entirely related to the popularity of "looks like a scooter" ebikes with DUI hooligans and other scofflaw types.

Simply round up the jackasses, and the bike trails will become quite safe. Word will get out fast with "the crowd" that they get busted for what's in their pockets if they hooligan the trails.

OH,,,,,, but that would require cops to work at law enforcement, and pedal bike cops can't catch them. :roll: Nothing that cops on Dr Bass style ebikes wouldn't cure. Sick ebike Mad Max on those scofflaws. OH NO, It's the bronze on a faster ebike!

NO, it's much better to just write another law that nobody can enforce, banning everybody from doing everything. 8)
 
I wish they would stop referring to the electric scooters (that happen to have pedals) as e-bikes. There's not a single 'bike' component on the thing that was pictured in the article. Well... maybe the brake handles :D

Chalo, this is an e-moped/e-moto that is poorly disguised as a bike.

And I believe these things should not be on the dedicated bike paths. There are plenty of paved roadways where this thing could go, no need to go onto the bike paths.
 
The fingers said:
Lets all vote to ban backwards roller skating for everyone except people with eyes in the backs of their heads. :lol:
Click to expand...

Skating in the street is already banned, along with skateboarding (except in Portlandia). Pocket bikes are banned from the street, and ATVs in most places. And guess what? We almost never have to deal with these things. Banning things can work if there are not powerful forces in opposition to the ban.

One of the ways to control problem behaviors is to prohibit them. It's not always the most effective way, and not usually a good first resort, but it is one tool we can use. I think you'd struggle to find a majority of people anywhere who want to allow unlicensed motorcycles on bike paths and sidewalks, or even in the street for that matter. That's a situation where a ban can work, and will come into place if the associated problems are not resolved by other means. There are not very many places in North America where e-bikes are numerous enough to create any perceived problems, but bans are being discussed in all of them, it seems.

So the corollary question becomes, how do you keep the peace between e-bikers and other road and path users? How do you avert the kind of untimely jackassery by a few e-bikers that will bring the hammer down on all of us? Requiring valid licenses for operators, but not for bikes, would be one tool (but clearly not a solution by itself). Keeping so-called e-bikes that are facsimiles of motor vehicles off of non-motorized paths would help resolve some conflicts, though there is no obvious reason (except for violations of good taste) to keep them off the road.

Definitely, observing person-on-foot speeds in ped areas, and human powered speeds on bike rights of way, and going at motor vehicle speeds only on the streets, should be both standard practice and legally enforceable as necessary. But how do you make it standard practice in a subculture like this one, which is specifically selected for people who like to get away with stuff? If we don't crack this nut, bans and access limitations are probably inevitable wherever e-bikes begin to take hold. E-bikes don't have established standing like bicycles and horses, or numerical dominance like cars and trucks.
 
Wise approach Chalo. Some things should be banned. And if the path is very crowded, 10 kph might be a reasonable speed, for pedals, skates, or ebikes. It's just not crowded where I ride, so 30 kph is safe on a 3 meter wide path in my locale.

I just object though, to the idea that you must pedal to use the path. That just puts e bikes at risk out in the street paralleling the path. If you want faster, ride the street, but you should not be forced there if you ride slow and safe.

Ban hooligans, whatever they are on.
 
dogman said:
I just object though, to the idea that you must pedal to use the path. That just puts e bikes at risk out in the street paralleling the path. If you want faster, ride the street, but you should not be forced there if you ride slow and safe.
Click to expand...

Those E-motorcycles with pedals are giving all ebikes a bad name. A law that states you must pedal on a bike path would help eliminate those. I think I could suport that. And those on a real ebike should be able to pedal as well in sight of observers. And when the path is clear, ride how ever you want. You realy shouldn't be going much faster than a pedal bike when near people anyway. Idiots will get caught, those smart enough to behave responsably won't realy have to change anything.

But I think we need to try a different approch to deal with the problem. I think a campagin to villanize those e scooters as nothing more than a loop hole for those who have lost there liscens would embarase people into not riding them. Start by refering to them as DUI Scooters, then start by making jokes about them in places like Facebook. Turn making fun of DUI scooter riders into a trend, and they will eventualy go away.

Here's my first shot in the war against DUI scooters:
dui_zps4aea6460.jpg
 
[Bump]... Hehe... ^^ "Start by referring to them as DUI Scooters..." Yer wish, their command:

Tampa-DUI-03.gif

http://www.duiattorneystampabay.com/DUI/DUI_Scooters.aspx

At Thomas & Paulk, our Tampa DUI lawyers have over 20 years of combined experience. We can aggressively defend your rights. Call for a free case...
Click to expand...

DUI Scooters

For a driver who has been convicted of DUI or has otherwise had his or her driver's license suspended, getting around can be difficult. Losing your license, even on a temporary basis, can have a significant impact on your ability to get to school or work or even to go to the local grocery store or run other necessary errands. Fortunately, drivers may have found a useful alternative. So-called "DUI scooters" offer an alternative means of transportation by way of electric bicycle, which a person may legally operate without a license. These vehicles are still relatively new on the market and may therefore bring up some confusion with law enforcement. If you have been arrested for driving on a suspended license while riding an electric bike or "DUI scooter" it is important to talk to a lawyer.


Riding a "DUI Scooter" / Electric Bicycle After License Suspension

DUI scooters are a type of vehicle that fit state and federal descriptions of low-speed electric bicycles. These vehicles have foot pedals, which may or may not be used by the rider. They also have electric motors that run for approximately 25 miles on a charge. The vehicles travel up to 20 miles per hour and have headlights and windshields. As long as riders do not remove the pedals or modify the bikes to enable them to travel faster than 20 mph, they fit the classification of electric bicycles and may be used without a driver's license. They should also not be driven on the sidewalk, instead following the rules of the road that apply to standard bicycles. The approximate cost of this vehicle is $1,200 to $2,000.

For a person who has had his or her license suspended or permanently revoked as the result of a drunk driving conviction, obtaining a DUI scooter may be essential. Due to their slight resemblance to a small motorcycle, however, it is no wonder that some riders of DUI scooters in the Tampa area have been arrested and held on charges of driving on a suspended license. Instead of facing potentially bogus charges and harsh penalties, involve a DUI defense lawyer who is familiar with handling cases involving these electric bicycles.

At Thomas & Paulk, we understand how to deal with criminal cases involving DUI scooters. Take a case where the Tampa Police Department arrested two people for driving with a suspended license and violation of probation because they were riding electric bicycles. In these DUI scooter cases, these individuals initially faced felony charges, but our attorneys were able to get involved and have the clients released on their own recognizance (without bail) and actually have all charges dismissed. The probation violation allegations were also dismissed.
Click to expand...

:)
 
Here, the mountain trails are 4 ft when you are lucky. Some trails are marked for pedestrians, others for bikes. It was a good system, but at busy hours the bike trails are now used by everybody. We can speed the bike trails only early in the morning, before the tourists and dog walkers start invading the mountain. There are some wide paths, mostly hard pack forest roads where everthing is allowed, the only safe ride at busy hours but not for speeding. The fact is, it is getting more difficult to practice bike sport in the mountain trails, since the city does promote the mountain for tourists and build more facilities at the top. We have a DH course on the steep side, kind of private and maintained by riders, that is the only place left that pedestrians are avoiding.

Mountains that are close or within the cities, are all in the same situation. Even when ebikes are allowed, they are getting less interesting to ride as they are attracting a bigger crowd. Early birds have all the fun.
 
^^ Hehe... "tourists and dog walkers start invading the mountain." :mrgreen: As "flat as a pancake", but living on the islands of the harbour in Toronto (for ten years) at least, the locals/Islanders actually preferred the "off seasons" like, after the Labour Day weekend and with schools back in, as those crazy tourists would "fade away" every year. :wink:
 
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