Need advice on tires

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Ykick   100 GW

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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by Ykick » May 31 2013 2:00pm

-dg wrote:
Ykick wrote:It's often tough to tell if you'll have clearance issues with wide 2.25-2.5" tires. Recently, I wished to install a 2.4" Cyclops on my newest Cannondale V900 - I already use that tire on my other V900 but the swingarm is slightly different. The result is that the Cyclops will fit one bike but not the other. Luckily, I had 2.3" wide Panaracer UfDa handy and it just clears the slightly narrower swingarm.
I'm on the fence about ordering a set of Cyclops or a set of 26x2.00 RibMos as the clearance may be to tight depending on how big the Cyclops are really. How do you like the UfDa? How much smaller is the UfDa? If you don't mind, could you measure the Cyclops or UfDa width as well as the rim width it is mounted on and post it?
I certainly would if I were near those bikes but I'm left coast this weekend and won't be back in NYC until mid next week. I'll come back here with my caliper measurements - I do use Mammoth Fat rims which are fairly wide but I dunno the spec off the top of my head.

Wes helped answer, but UfDa's seem fine to me for around $22 or so. I only had them because Cyclops' were out of stock and rumored to be soon discontinued a winter or two ago. News of their demise seems to not be the case though because I recently bought a pair (Cyclops) from Niagara and they indicated around 300 available.

Most eBikes are heavy and fast compared to pedal bicycles thus the need for fat tires.

Flats from sharp debris will simply be luck of the draw IMO. Kevlar does seem to help with thorns and maybe glass but a steel screw, bolt, nail, staple or similar will puncture through any Kevlar ply tire I've ever used.

I ride year 'round 4k miles per year over brutal roads.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by -dg » May 31 2013 3:23pm

wesnewell wrote:I rode the Panaracer Uff Da for a while. It's a solid tire and wears well. It's 2.3" compared to Cyclops 2.4". I wouldn't hesitate using them again.
I've learned not to trust the claimed dimensions on tires, they are often smaller than the stated size, but how much varies by model. Which is why I'm hoping someone has a cyclops or UffDa that they could actually measure.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by wesnewell » May 31 2013 3:34pm

My cyclops are 2.49" on DH39 rims with 65psi. I checked both front and rear and they were the same. On a narrower rim they would not be as wide. They may also not be as wide with less pressure.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by cal3thousand » May 31 2013 3:55pm

I bought a pair of the Cyclops CST in 24" to try them out based on recommendations here.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by jbalat » Jun 02 2013 7:32am

I just bought a couple a marathon greengaurd 26x1.50 tyres for my bike to replace then 1.95 standard mountain bike nobbie tyres. Although my rims are fairly narrow I have some big mud gaurds on the bike so hope they dont look too funny when I put them on ?

Goldcross cycles has 50% off so I only paid about $26 each. Unfortunately they only had one of the 1.75 maraton plus tyres which were going to be my first choice..

Oh well i will report back on the battery life and rolling resistance. I know when I throttle off, the nobbie tyres are just so draggy I just cant peddle, I can only imagine how much drain they put on the batteries ?
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by lester12483 » Jun 02 2013 2:27pm

Kevlar tires and thick puncture resistant tubes is a must!
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by Chalo » Jun 02 2013 4:54pm

lester12483 wrote:Kevlar tires and thick puncture resistant tubes is a must!
It's all a matter of what causes the flats you get. Kevlar is a woven material, so fine-pointed things like wires and long thorns poke right through it. It's mainly protective against tearing damage from sharp rocks, metal debris and such. Likewise, thick tubes only offer protection against things that are smaller than the thickness of tire and tube.

Dogman lives in Las Cruces. Neither of the preventives you name would do him much good against mesquite thorns, cactus spines and the like. The thick tube probably would help as an anti-goathead measure. But he gets more benefit from sealant, I expect, than from all other preventives combined.

I live in a central city area with lots of night life and therefore lots of broken glass. The thing that works best here is armored tires, especially those with a thick barrier belt between the tread and casing, like Schwalbe Marathon Plus, Michelin Pilot City, and CST Salvo. Textile belts like Kevlar help some, but are not a cure-all.

All the preventives have their own tradeoffs, too. Thick tires and tubes cost speed and harm ride quality. Liners like Mr. Tuffys cause some flats as they prevent others. Sealants clog valves, make patching punctures difficult to impossible, and make a nasty mess when they encounter a hole they can't seal. It's a good idea to choose one preventive that works best for the specific hazards your bike encounters, because stacking a bunch of different preventives buys you the drawbacks of all of them, but does not proportionally multiply your protection.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by jbalat » Jun 04 2013 6:01am

Guys just wanted to report back on my new set of Marathon greengaurd 26x1.5 replacing 1.95 nobbies. Im happy with the way they look on the bike. however...

My top speed did not improve, battery usage for a 34 km round trip was the same. the only difference is that it feels easier to pedal the bike without the motor going.

Not sure why this does not translate into some sort of improvement ??
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by Blackssr » Jun 04 2013 10:26am

I use these on both my ebikes and routinely hit 50+ mph on my daily commute. 3000 miles + and no signs of wear at all.



http://www.amazon.com/Michelin-Pilot-Sp ... ctive+Tire
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by wesnewell » Jun 04 2013 10:32am

Reason your top speed/range didn't improve is because your tire circumference is now smaller, thus requiring more rpm to maintain the same speed and range. If you didn't adjust that on your bike computer, it will be reading high for both speed and range. Typical tire cir. of 26x1.95 is 2055mm and for 26x1.5 tire is 1985mm.
Last edited by wesnewell on Jun 04 2013 2:39pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by o00scorpion00o » Jun 04 2013 11:33am

When I was electric I had 26x1.6 Continental sport Contacts, a lot more noticeably pedal efficient, faster than knobbly tyres for sure.

With a Mac 8T and 16S 8ah LiPo I was able to get just over 20 miles @ 20 mph no peddling at all with a few hills.

I had they tyres pumped to 110 psi and it does make a noticeable difference to pedal efficiency and range.

The Continentals are also puncture resistant and to this day I never got a puncture since I got those tyres, I still ride on them and wouldn't have any other tyre.

For over 30 mph I'd have wide tyres though.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by jbalat » Jun 04 2013 7:32pm

wesnewell wrote:Reason your top speed/range didn't improve is because your tire circumference is now smaller, thus requiring more rpm to maintain the same speed and range. If you didn't adjust that on your bike computer, it will be reading high for both speed and range. Typical tire cir. of 26x1.95 is 2055mm and for 26x1.5 tire is 1985mm.
Im using a gps app to measure speed so Im happy that speed hasnt dropped off.

If I had considered the circumference I would have gone for a Marathon 1.75..

Oh well the upside is if my battery ever gets too low at least I will be able to pedal home ;)
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by bowlofsalad » Jun 05 2013 1:10am

Choosing a tire is an extremely difficult thing to do. I recommend start by making an assessment on what is a priority to you. Can you live with getting a flat? Do you need little protection? Anyway, seeing as you say you do all city riding, I don't know if you are familiar with schwalbe tires, but they are fairly popular. http://www.schwalbe.com/gbl/en/technik_ ... nt=Technik This is a neat chart giving information about levels of protection. Green guard is 3mm thick, smart guard is 5mm thick.

I don't really know what you mean by resistance, rolling resistance is lower on wider tires, wind resistance is lower on skinnier tires. I am currently using 26x1.5 and 20x1.35 marathon plus tires. I am considering getting something like marathon http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires ... rathon_420 (green guard), big apple plus http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires ... apple_plus (green guard), or marathon plus (smart guard) http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/1323 all in at least a wider 1.75. I value dependability highest, then efficiency, then comfort and then cost or something like that. That is why I got fairly skinny marathon plus tires, but when pumping them to their maximum rated PSI, every little pump was a bit of a jolt sent into my bike. Full suspension is great, but those tiny bumps on many roads aren't helped by suspension much of the time. Fat tires with lower PSI is a great thing. I lowered the PSI pretty far on the marathon plus tires I currently have on, and it made a pretty decent different.

All of these tires have pros and cons, as do all tires, weighing them is kind of a chore in itself. There have been a ton of different suggestions on this thread for tires. If you ride in areas with little junk on the roads, you could probably get by with something like marathon supreme or equivalent, especially if you could handle changing an inner tube on the road. Personally, I'd really rather never deal with a situation like that.

Sometimes I imagine that rubber thickness might be good enough without the fancy insert that tires like marathon plus puts into the tire. A user on this forum, amberwolf, suggested to me to use layers of old inner tubes between the tire and the inner tube you are going to inflate as a form of flat protection. I don't know how many layers you'd need to form an actual barrier at whatever PSI to make an equivalent 5mm to something like smart guard, but it'd be an interesting thing to look into, for myself at least.

If I thought I could fit it without issue, I'd probably go with at least a 2 inch wide tire with green guard if I wasn't very worried about getting a flat. But being the over kill kind of person I am, I am likely to end up with 1.75" (widest this tire comes in) wide marathons plus tires. I did recently find http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/4213 marathon deluxe tires on schwalbes website. The tire sounds good, but it also reads like marketing BS. In my mind, the bottom line to flat protection is material thickness and density, it sounds like the marathon deluxe is just a slightly (if at all) thicker version of marathon supreme. "Marathon Deluxe is the luxury version of the classic marathon. Saving almost half a kilo on the bike's tire weight. And with absolutely equivalent puncture protection!" Equivalent puncture protection? I have doubts.

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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by Chalo » Jun 05 2013 12:47pm

bowlofsalad wrote:I did recently find http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/4213 marathon deluxe tires on schwalbes website. The tire sounds good, but it also reads like marketing BS. In my mind, the bottom line to flat protection is material thickness and density, it sounds like the marathon deluxe is just a slightly (if at all) thicker version of marathon supreme. "Marathon Deluxe is the luxury version of the classic marathon. Saving almost half a kilo on the bike's tire weight. And with absolutely equivalent puncture protection!" Equivalent puncture protection? I have doubts.
I haven't tried Marathon Supreme yet (due to their cost) but one of my coworkers got some. They sure seem a lot like Panaracer RiBMo in their casing construction. My wife and I both have RiBMos on some of our frequently ridden bikes for a couple of years now, and we have yet to see a puncture in any of them. I don't know how much of that is luck and how much is in the tires, but to me it's the best sign yet that thin armor can be as effective as thick armor in some cases.

In the meantime, our thick Marathon Pluses and CST Salvos soldier on, also without ever having been punctured.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by Ykick » Jun 07 2013 6:45am

As promised, update regarding 26" x 2.3" Panaracer UfDa mounted width = 56mm

Regarding CST Cyclops - I ordered and received a non-Pro version from Niagra Cycle. No lettering and a composite bead. While the checkout price is about $1 less than the PRO they also cost less to ship due to the fact they're not using a steel bead. They can fold enough to fit into a smaller box which may save about $4/tire shipping. I haven't mounted them yet but they appear to be all that I like about an "urban" tread tire.

One last thing - nails, staples and similar debris almost never puncture front tires. Most of the time the front merely rolls over such crap in the road. Trouble comes from the front kicking up debris at a perfect angle to spear the rear tire.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by Chalo » Jun 07 2013 2:26pm

Ykick wrote:One last thing - nails, staples and similar debris almost never puncture front tires. Most of the time the front merely rolls over such crap in the road. Trouble comes from the front kicking up debris at a perfect angle to spear the rear tire.
Yep. Also, pinch flats are more likely in the rear. My observed ratio of front to rear flats at work is probably 1:4 or so from all causes (some of which are equally likely front or rear).
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by -dg » Jun 07 2013 5:50pm

Ykick wrote:As promised, update regarding 26" x 2.3" Panaracer UfDa mounted width = 56mm

Regarding CST Cyclops - I ordered and received a non-Pro version from Niagra Cycle. No lettering and a composite bead. While the checkout price is about $1 less than the PRO they also cost less to ship due to the fact they're not using a steel bead. They can fold enough to fit into a smaller box which may save about $4/tire shipping. I haven't mounted them yet but they appear to be all that I like about an "urban" tread tire.
Ohhh, thanks! That's a useful size for me. One more favor, while you have your calipers out, could you also measure the exterior width of the rim, and when you get the Cyclops mounted, the same for them?

I am on the fence about whether to get the Cyclops or the Cyclops pro. Folding beads are usually more expensive, at least on road tires. Hmmm, questions questions.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by cal3thousand » Jun 07 2013 6:38pm

I have a set of the Cyclops coming in from NiagaraCycles in a few days (hard to find stock with a better price on these). They are going on my "for sale" bike and I will post pictures and some measurements when I get them. (They are the foldables, BTW)
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 07 2013 7:01pm

I just got a set of Cyclops' also...figured id give them a try. Amazon had a good price on the 26ers

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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by Ykick » Jun 07 2013 10:17pm

-dg wrote:
Ykick wrote:As promised, update regarding 26" x 2.3" Panaracer UfDa mounted width = 56mm

Regarding CST Cyclops - I ordered and received a non-Pro version from Niagra Cycle. No lettering and a composite bead. While the checkout price is about $1 less than the PRO they also cost less to ship due to the fact they're not using a steel bead. They can fold enough to fit into a smaller box which may save about $4/tire shipping. I haven't mounted them yet but they appear to be all that I like about an "urban" tread tire.
Ohhh, thanks! That's a useful size for me. One more favor, while you have your calipers out, could you also measure the exterior width of the rim, and when you get the Cyclops mounted, the same for them?

I am on the fence about whether to get the Cyclops or the Cyclops pro. Folding beads are usually more expensive, at least on road tires. Hmmm, questions questions.
My mounted 26" PRO Cyclops comes in 'smidgen over 60mm or exactly 2-3/8"

Haven't mounted the non-Pro's yet but they appear to be the same except lacking ink on the sidewalls.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by arkmundi » Jul 25 2013 2:14am

biketires.png
A plethora of choices
biketires.png (51.69 KiB) Viewed 1576 times
Thanks as always to the ES-hardcore for great advise on all things ebike! :!: Flat yesterday, no spare and off to the bike shop - Bicycle Alley - for replacement tire & tube. Asked for their top of the line urban street tire and they gave me a Continental Mountain King II. Then consulted here before buying online a spare as a hedge against our urban streets. It was painful being reduced to walking and the bus! After much consideration of various options, I'm rolling with the Maxxis Holy Roller from http://www.biketiresdirect.com. Did not until now know there was such a plethora of choices. :mrgreen:

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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by Chalo » Jul 25 2013 2:25am

arkmundi wrote:I'm rolling with the Maxxis Holy Roller from http://www.biketiresdirect.com. Did not until now know there was such a plethora of choices.
The Holy Roller is a good quality tire that's probably the most literally "all purpose" tire I know-- it's OK on everything from sloppy mud to pavement-- but it's quite thin in between the knobs. Most street tires are much thicker across the whole width of the tread.
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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by arkmundi » Jul 25 2013 2:41am

Chalo wrote:The Holy Roller is a good quality tire that's probably the most literally "all purpose" tire I know-- it's OK on everything from sloppy mud to pavement-- but it's quite thin in between the knobs. Most street tires are much thicker across the whole width of the tread.
Thanks for the vote of confidence - yea, an all purpose quality street tire at a reasonable price. My flat was due to a split-out on the side of the tire, not a puncture. Thanks to Barneys Bicycles selling me a shit tire. Speaking about shit, Detroit and a general discussion turned toxic. I mean I'm all for capitalism - its why I could buy a tire. But....Q!*)&)& I'm not sure what's worse - greed or stupidity?

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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by bowlofsalad » Jul 25 2013 4:12am

Chalo wrote:
Ykick wrote:One last thing - nails, staples and similar debris almost never puncture front tires. Most of the time the front merely rolls over such crap in the road. Trouble comes from the front kicking up debris at a perfect angle to spear the rear tire.
Yep. Also, pinch flats are more likely in the rear. My observed ratio of front to rear flats at work is probably 1:4 or so from all causes (some of which are equally likely front or rear).
I know this wouldn't be a universal solution, but it would surely help. I don't know if someone else has had this idea, but there isn't much to it. The idea I have is to arrange a large and strong magnet so it sits in line with the rear tire. I don't know the ideal height for this application, I imagine it might be difficult to setup perfectly, but I haven't really worked that part out yet. But, obviously, any ferrous metals in the road would be picked up by this magnet, so instead of the staple going infront of your tire, it gets pick up by a magnet. The karmic part of this idea is, riding an ebike means there isn't much need to be the supreme fixie weight weenie. So carrying the large, heavy and powerful magnet maybe it's a good samaritan thing going for us picking up junk off the road. That would mean less flats not just for you, but far other riders and even cars. Once in a while, turn on the shop vac and vacuum off whatever may be on the magnet. Sure would be interesting and pleasant to find some sharp stuff that may have punctured your tire instead be on a magnet.

Obviously, this wouldn't work for things like non-ferrous metals and organic matter.

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Re: Need advice on tires

Post by Ykick » Jul 25 2013 6:33am

bowlofsalad wrote:
Chalo wrote:
Ykick wrote:One last thing - nails, staples and similar debris almost never puncture front tires. Most of the time the front merely rolls over such crap in the road. Trouble comes from the front kicking up debris at a perfect angle to spear the rear tire.
Yep. Also, pinch flats are more likely in the rear. My observed ratio of front to rear flats at work is probably 1:4 or so from all causes (some of which are equally likely front or rear).
I know this wouldn't be a universal solution, but it would surely help. I don't know if someone else has had this idea, but there isn't much to it. The idea I have is to arrange a large and strong magnet so it sits in line with the rear tire. I don't know the ideal height for this application, I imagine it might be difficult to setup perfectly, but I haven't really worked that part out yet. But, obviously, any ferrous metals in the road would be picked up by this magnet, so instead of the staple going infront of your tire, it gets pick up by a magnet. The karmic part of this idea is, riding an ebike means there isn't much need to be the supreme fixie weight weenie. So carrying the large, heavy and powerful magnet maybe it's a good samaritan thing going for us picking up junk off the road. That would mean less flats not just for you, but far other riders and even cars. Once in a while, turn on the shop vac and vacuum off whatever may be on the magnet. Sure would be interesting and pleasant to find some sharp stuff that may have punctured your tire instead be on a magnet.

Obviously, this wouldn't work for things like non-ferrous metals and organic matter.
Perfect world? Maybe.... Where I ride you might pick up something large you'd rather not have picked up by a strong magnet. Also, there are vandals who toss brass tacks in bike paths just to mess with riders.

You're not the 1st person to have this idea. Unfortunately, in practice it's likely similar to "does it charge while you pedal" perpetual energy thing.
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