Optibike new mid drive unit

snellemin

10 kW
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Apr 2, 2011
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Spring TX
Saw this on facebook and thought to share. Optibike has some new mid drive unit with the batteries built into it.

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snellemin said:
Saw this on facebook and thought to share. Optibike has some new mid drive unit with the batteries built into it.

1237025_10152262093078677_1363503386_n.jpg


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Yes, I saw that on their FB. Controller must be there too. Cudos to Jim and the Opti team for an innovated new design. Curious to see the specs.

For a mid drive, this designis moving towards the **IDEAL** configuration, up to todays transmission limits ~ 1-2kW?

Now if they can make it Silent and allow a center frame, removable pack extender, and keep 48V......

I think the MBB is a cool, clean design. All the other multi chain, step up, step down, multi sprocket systems are not as clean, more loss. The new Haibike+Bosch system seems well packaged with some high end components, but their drive is only 350-400W, nothing near the MBB capacity.
 
Looks good! 600W in such a small package is impressive, built in batteries & controller is a first for a mid-drive. Guess it must be 36V running ~18A though couldn't be huge capacity pack. With everything built into the drive, I'm guessing it may not be the easiest thing to service but Opti's are reliable. It could give Bosch a real run for its money in the OEM mid-drive market.
 
Cool design, but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for sure.

Wait till they tell you the price tag of the bike... ;)
 
I see on one of the photos it says, "2X torque of Bosch unit." What does that come out to be? 2 x 40Nm = 80Nm?

... though couldn't be huge capacity pack.

I'm guessing maybe 5Ah...

I'd like to know how they get rid of the heat of the motor to the batteries. The housing doesn't have fins like a heat sink.

Now if they can make it Silent...
I agree. I love the look of the Optibikes but the motor noise from that thing sounds just like my R/C car!
 
Apparently it's 500Wh - 13Ah. Some other interesting features:

Remove entire system in 2 minutes
Smart phone real time diagnostics via cloud
 
Apparently it's 500Wh - 13Ah.
I don't know... Kinda defies the laws of physics cramming in that many batteries in there, unless of course there's an Arc Reactor inside.

One thing's for sure, if Optibike did it, that would concentrate the center of gravity to a tighter, lower spot than other solutions we've seen.
 
Well just a quick guesstimation at around 5.9 kg total weight:

500Wh of LiCo ~ 2.75 kg
which would mean around just over 3kg combined for remaining mechanics & electrics...I'll admit that doesn't seem much but still quite possible it seems.

SIMBB.jpg
 
It can be done with 200-250whr/kg panasonic or LG D1 cells. If they're running the battery at a 1C draw, they are beating the cells within an inch of their lives upon discharge. And they've got a tiny motor in there, like a baby astro, and a baby triple or quadruple gear reduction made out of high strength materials.

It's a technical feat, but when you see the price, you will gag.
 
remf said:
Apparently it's 500Wh - 13Ah. Some other interesting features:

Remove entire system in 2 minutes
Smart phone real time diagnostics via cloud


Remf-

Where did you see the 13Ahr number?

I heard this is a prototype? Can anybody confirm or know of a production schedule?

This is a huge advancement from Optibike, and I'm not surprised.

A 600W mid drive with controller, batteries is a first. It may have been a thermal challenge, but I can't believe they would show it if heat was an issue.

They have the WHOLE package now:
1. Decent mid drive power (600W==900W dd)
2. COG is the lowest possible and balanced.
3. Integrated power train, NO power wiring, just a throttle/consol only.

Cons?
- likely still the high speed motor noise.
- torque sensed pedelec still awaiting.
- custom frame - neccessary.
- loss of rear suspension.

They listen to the customers and keep offering upgrades:

> first lithium OEM at 20 Ahrs, now 26 Ahrs for 36V
> First with a Rohloff hub, 500% range.
> Power now up to 1100W, 48V
> Functional external pack, aluminun cased.
> Reduced price intro opti, M4, $6k. (Ok , still stinking expensive)
> kickstand mount, finally.
> Kickstand mount lost with new design, but bottle holder in, finally.
> New monitoring, i cloud soon.

Standard Quality componentry and workmanship, customer support, 3yr warranty...not bad.
 
I don't like how small the battery is, and I don't like that the battery is inside the motor housing.

I like a lot about this, though. In 750W "turbo mode", the internal controller and motor are likely to get warm. If somebody gave me one I would add a temp sensor to the FETs and the motors' stator, then thrash it a bit to collect data.

Then if I decided to keep it...I would add a cell_man triangle pack (18-Ah) since the frame has space for it. I'd remove the stock controller and swap-in an external controller (which would almost be guaranteed to run cooler, perhaps a Lyen 6-FET?), then of course I would add a suspension seat-post because I am too old for hardtails...

http://www.electricbike.com/suspension-seat-posts/
 
The battery is small for the current that is asked of it; it is by design going to throw a lot of the watt hours out as heat ( unless this is some magic new cell that we have never heard of which has good power density AND astounding energy density ).

I would also not bother with it and go with something like the bafang mid drive unit, at the expense of weight. They probably have the batteries, controller, and motor heatsinked for the job. But i don't want to ever have to repair or pay the extra cost of a proprietary system, and i don't think the battery will last too long.
 
@remf: Thanks for posting the flyer.

Amazing that Optibike can cram a 14Ah battery pack in that small form factor.

The flyer also said, "Cool carbon technology-- Will not overheat"

I wonder if they are saying that the internal gearing is carbon fiber.

Motor, batteries, and electronics will produce heat at some point. That has to be dissipated via the housing which doesn't looked finned from the photo angles seen.
 
Beautiful system

Optibike really gets it

The motor shouldnt be as loud
The thin wall aluminum frame from their old bike amplified the noise
 
Large diameter motor that uses the center space for batteries?
 
Built-in fixed 500Wh capacity probably not much thermal concern. Kick that up 1-2kWh with frame bags, etc., and shedding heat becomes more critical.

Wonder how much noise?

Not that into built-in batteries but that seems to follow Opti. Sweet workmanship!
 
Actually a larger battery running the same load would create less heat due to lower resistance.

They have a small battery that likely pulls a 1C draw, out of a cell likely rated for 1C maximum. That pack is gonna throw some watt hours into heat, for sure - into a compact space that is jam packed with batteries, controller, and motor... a nice looking package on the inside, but a hellish work environment for the components inside :lol:

Unless again, this is some new awesome super high density cell with good output that none of us have heard of or seen spec sheets on.
 
The latest 18650 cells from Samsung and Panasonic can do much more than that. Look at this one that has 10S4P Panasonic NCR18650PD. It can do 40A burst and 18A continuous.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/761598822/36V_11_6Ah_bottle_battery_Bycicle.html
 
neptronix said:
Actually a larger battery running the same load would create less heat due to lower resistance.

They have a small battery that likely pulls a 1C draw, out of a cell likely rated for 1C maximum. That pack is gonna throw some watt hours into heat, for sure - into a compact space that is jam packed with batteries, controller, and motor... a nice looking package on the inside, but a hellish work environment for the components inside :lol:

Unless again, this is some new awesome super high density cell with good output that none of us have heard of or seen spec sheets on.

Sure, but the longer run time is what I was talking about. If the motor works 2, 3 or 4 times as long as designed with 500Wh battery capacity all that motor heat will need to go somewhere.

Similar analogy as 3kW dumped into a 9C motor. You can get away with it for a short while but not a long while.
 
I'll bet that "carbon" stuff is the same as Allcell and some of Lesters bikes use. Phase change perhaps. Definitely needs to be tested, but Justin gave it his seal of approval. That goes a long way. I hope we can learn the technique and technology to make those 18650 packs last a while.
otherDoc
 
Ah yes, but if you have a battery 3 times larger, given the same load ( in amps ), you can produce 3 times as much heat for 3 times longer if you wish.

However, there is a constant amount of heat that you can shed with a system where everything is in a big thermal mass with a heatsink to the outside world & air rushing by that will remove that heat.

If you had 3 times more surface mass due to a larger pack, and 3 times less heat, the level of constant heat that could be constantly removed would be 3 times greater, so you would be in a much better situation. You would have more thermal overhead than you could ever need. And you'd waste less of the battery's power as heat, so the whole system would be more efficient.

Ykick said:
neptronix said:
Actually a larger battery running the same load would create less heat due to lower resistance.

They have a small battery that likely pulls a 1C draw, out of a cell likely rated for 1C maximum. That pack is gonna throw some watt hours into heat, for sure - into a compact space that is jam packed with batteries, controller, and motor... a nice looking package on the inside, but a hellish work environment for the components inside :lol:

Unless again, this is some new awesome super high density cell with good output that none of us have heard of or seen spec sheets on.

Sure, but the longer run time is what I was talking about. If the motor works 2, 3 or 4 times as long as designed with 500Wh battery capacity all that motor heat will need to go somewhere.

Similar analogy as 3kW dumped into a 9C motor. You can get away with it for a short while but not a long while.
 
I'm guessing if the rider is careful to use the full range of gears, that ought to keep the motor running in the sweet spot. That should keep heat to a minimum. But if the rider doesn't, there's going to be a lot of heat.
 
. The SIMBB is $5000 and will be available in Jan 2014. The top speed will depend on which option you select. Up to 25 mph.

I find it odd it only does 25 at 600 watts. My Stromer ST1 Platinum will do 27 MPH hard pedaling and 30 MPH pushing it to my limits and I'm old and not in the best of shape. But I might just have to buy one for next summer :)
 

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