eKMX Trike race against 600HP range rover

so i talked to a colleague at work, telling him that i could bet that i would be faster in my e-bicycle than he in his car.

He agreed and i was all happy until i find out what car he had. It is a range rover, fully tuned, over 600hp, from 0-100kmh [60miles] in 5.5seconds.

I dont think i can win it, we initially agreed on 100m and 200m distance..

the deal is, if he wins i give him 3000eur, if i win i get 5000eur.

I got kmx trike, could put either cromotor or xlyte 5404- probably John's motor would be better but wont fit the dropouts. I never run higher than 75v lipos, i guess i would have to get to at least 135v of lipos.

Too much money to rebuilt i guess and too much risk to loose. But if anyone is interested, i will pass the message on
Prob easy money for Doc

If he launches in AWD/4WD, you could be screwed. One of the biggest problems I see with trikes is they do burn outs.

Cromotor in 17" MC wheel with a soft compound tire that is bias ply with soft sidewalls (which should give you a +22" OD, 23" would be better so you have some sidewall to absorb shock, you need it to wrinkle ever so slightly to absorb the initial hit), 125V at 200A. If it hooks and the axle doesn't snap it should be a good race. This is a game of reaction and traction. If you find a controller to run 150V you'll be even better off since the high speed acceleration will be better.

kelly controller would do the job..

hub motor has advantage over RC drive as it is back heavy so better grip / traction. If i added batteries to the back, and yes wide soft tires... but im screwed with his awd launch control.

wojtek said:

hub motor has advantage over RC drive as it is back heavy so better grip / traction.

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:lol: yeah that's how it works...

You can add a fairing to help with aerodynamics if you have the skills. This can save some precious kW above 50km/h.
Also, don't forget weight is your enemy.
I'd say :
Kelly 144V 300A (phase)
Cromotor
36s3p (133V 15Ah)
Fat MC wheel and tire
Battery should be put on the rear to add weight for traction

Almost 35kW 8) , this could be achieve but maybe not up to 100km/h. Your friend will be quickly on the 130kph+. Ask him to do a race from 0 to 80 kph

yes i was thinking about it but it is hard to measure. better to calculate how many meters it takes me to make 80kmh from 0

Does he have a daily driver car? If so, have him use that in your "race". IMHO you were sandbagged to make a "bet" without knowing he was planning on using a monster machine.

On the other hand, any other cars in his stable or probably fast also.

Good luck having fun with your trike.

I think you can do it rather easily with Three wheel drive . Have the cromotor in the back and two hs3548s in the front. There was a guy who had a dual 3540 setup and ran around 132v of battery. His acceleration was super quick for two light motors putting out huge amounts of power. He drag raced cars and beat them to a pulp. I believe the guys handle was steam25 or something?
But why would you agree to 100kph? That's pretty darn quick and your best advantage is the fact you have all your torque at zero rpm and it goes down from there. As you slow down I'm acceleration he is getting into his sweet spot for torque. It's not very good.

I bet against tuned cars and motorcycles, but I take a bet I know I will win.

My favorites are from point A to point B in town. :wink:

"We're going to have lunch at such restaurant, what do I order for you ?"
- You won't be there before me
"Wanna bet the lunch that i have a drink on my table before you get in ?"

Never lost one of those

Pick up a big hubby that won't saturate when you put the power to it, throw all the batteries far enough back that you won't loose traction, but far enough forward that the front end doesn't come up, and then pick up either a big, high voltage kelly controller (or better yet, if you are running johninCRs hub, a pair of 300A 140V+ kellys). You will have around 25-35hp, and sub 200lb. That's gets you between 600-800 hp per ton. Double what that range rover will have. All it will cost you is two kellys, some nanos and a hub.

Finding a sticky compound tire might be the easiest strategy to avoid unwanted tire spin. A bigger contact patch is called for when you start losing coefficient of friction due to overheating caused by spin?

A wee bit of spin off the line might help get the controller out of the 'from stall' current limiting?

Farfle has the right strategy concerning saturation and lbs./HP. Then keep the race short enough that top speed wind resistance doesn't disfavor you.

John in CR would be best but it wont fit my dropouts [i dont want to bend them THAT much]. I would need to cut the rear forks and make custom one with proper torque arms. Right now i have Doc's arms welded to the dropouts and 2x torque arms but the nuts are still getting loose. The only way to go is this:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51873

please make a video ahah

MadRhino said:

but I take a bet I know I will win.

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i think everyone thinks that take a bet they will win and yet 50% of them is wrong
there is a lot for me to invest in this deal and i will never have 100% that i win. Many things can go wrong.

I will be negotiating with him to bet for 1/4th of our monthly salary. It is more fair and he is earning shitloads so my odds will be better.

Thanks all for the ideas!

i'm sure you have a chance off the line, and likely up to the 100m mark, then things start to be a problem for you lol..

Don't go cromotor, it's too small for your needs. Get this 10KW 17kg motor Luke was using for his deathbike:
[youtube]rd4CvNXGmB4[/youtube]

http://goldenmotor.com/

Or get John's 94% efficient hubmonster :lol:
[youtube]0avfYsLW28k[/youtube]
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48399&hilit=deathbike&start=25

You agreed on a distance, but not a route. You need to pick the route to your advantage. Maybe a bike path lined with boulders on the sides. It is a range rover meant for off roading, right?

itchynackers said:

You agreed on a distance, but not a route. You need to pick the route to your advantage. Maybe a bike path lined with boulders on the sides. It is a range rover meant for off roading, right?

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Have you ever gone off-roading on a KMX ? .... yes it's fun... but it's a rougher ride than on the suv.

KMX is good for luxembourg roads , cant imagine using it off road!

That's why you need a bikepath lined with boulders on each side. Just narrow enough for a kmx, not for a range rover.

Ypedal said:

i'm sure you have a chance off the line, and likely up to the 100m mark, then things start to be a problem for you lol..

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+1
I doubt a hub build can win the 200m, if the guy in the 600 Hp Range Rover can shift that is.
I would go for the Zero drive train with 54Hp.
A wide motorcycle wheel and a soft slick should make it. Invest some 3000 USD to win 5000 EU is a good profit and you stay with a monster trike after the race.

Make sure the rule is no revving the engine or motor. That's the equalizer for the crap first half revolution of wheel that we have due to starting at 0% efficiency.

What max dropout width can you handle? Unlike motors made to fit bicycles, HubMonster actually has quite a bit of width flexibility as long as you can handle the 15.5mm thick axle flats. FWIW, the advantage in using HubMonster is in the Kv and resulting top speeds. The area of magnet put to work is probably about the same as the other motors, so torque potential is comparable. Similar torque with far higher rpm is the big difference.

John

I missed the wager part. 5k euros goes a long long way. Does it need to be based on your KMX? The reason I ask is because of the lack of weight on the rear wheel. If you did go 3wd, typical hubbies aren't going to cut it, because they can't do the rpm at the voltages where controllers are reasonable.

I'm working on a bike that will definitely embarrass him at both the 100m and 200m....maybe even the 1/4 mile. A guy who owns a new sportsbike shop near my house all but challenged me to built an ebike to beat the sportsbikes he sells. I think there's a market for what I want to build if it proves reasonably safe. That is a 2wd with dual HubMonsters, and those big hubbies will go in the pair of alloy moto wheels I picked up. The 16" is ready to go, but I also have a 15" that ends up about a 23" OD wheel with the limited tire selection available. They're going to give me a top speed of 110-120mph depending on aero at a voltage under load of 100V, so another 20-25mph is reasonable with stiff enough batteries and controllers I already possess.

We've talked about traction at the front wheel being a major limitation before in a high power 2wd rig, but I manage to keep my front wheel firmly on the ground running 26kw peak input at the rear as long as I don't sit too upright or lean back when nailing the throttle. Move the CG a bit lower and forward and I think it's reasonable to believe I can pump 15kw into a front motor without ill effects. With some practice I'm sure drag racing tuning at 20kw into the front and 30-35kw peak into the rear is within reach. That's over double what I run now, and with your lighter weight and only needing a very limited range battery, you could come in well below 175kg total load, bike + rider.

That would give you a power-to-weight advantage of roughly 2:1, and once you add in the broader torque band, you should win in a laugher. Something that looks very bicycle-like, and built as light as possible with only RWD, would be interesting too. Can you line up some more suckers for money races?

If you can get away from hubmotors, then you have to consider going with a Zero power system too. Juice up their 54hp settings a bit for race settings, and use the highest C rate Nanotechs available as a short range drag race pack, and that's a sure winner too.

John

Thanks John and all the others

no it does not have to be the KMX but out of 3 vehicles i own right now it is best

please update me on your crazy project! have you started the build thread?